School Days - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Infinion]

Originally Posted by l3LooDLusT

Why is evryone here assuming that koto got raped by taisuke coz of the symbolism on the last scene?. Chill ppol assuming stuff without proof is the same thing as being a dumbass who cant think straight like makoto we just need to wait for the next episode till they show wat really happened then we can kill taisuke if he really did rape her or maybe he just grab her and then hug her then the ribbon fell to comfort her coz he likes her? maybe. as for the red water drip on the last scene maybe its a foreshadowing that some1 will end up bloody dead?.

Actually the symbolism isn't just put in there for sh1ts and giggles, the representation of the ribbon falling and creating ripples of blood means that she lost her virginity. Also how would there be two completely different meanings to that? The outcome is obvious. on top of that how do you explain Kotonoha in a 'dark room' in the end, twitching and saying Makoto's name in her head? In my opinion she is thinking that she wanted her virginity to be taken from Makoto and not from Taisuke

Originally Posted by faustianideals

What do you know about love? You're 18, what you mean is he isn't a romantic. Not everyone is going to make love on a bed of roses. Seriously, what the hell are you expecting? He's a teenage boy too, what do you think is on his mind? Sex, sex, and more sex.

In Akabane_Kun's defense, it's pretty easy to understand the differences between love and lustful intentions, there isn't a certain age that you become aware of the two differences, it's common sense. And although teenage boys think about sex alot, its not like it's the only thing going through their head. Also Taisuke has no right to have sex with Kotonoha, he barely knows her and she has no feelings for him. And for those who think that it might be consensual when the two had sex, why was she only thinking of Makoto? It's more of a "I'm getting raped this will shatter me" thing than a "Your rape comforts me" thing

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by Zeira

I finally figured out what was bothering me about the tasiuke rape thing. I guess I dont see the world as black and white. For me there are many shades of gray. Everyone is different, so many personalities, and so many different ways that one situation can play out.

I know I agree that if he raped her, he is wrong plain and simple, and it is not to be taken lightly.

However, at the same time I dont think of him as that guy that pulled some girl in to a dark alley and raped her, or the guy that misciously slipped a date rape drug in to a girls drink and raped her. It is like, these type of people/situations.. it is schemed, planned, or maliscious. Then the rapist leaves the girl there like a peice of meat, I mean of course they aren't going to stick around.. they dont care about the girl. They raped her, got what they wanted, then left.

but for Taisuke, though still a rapist and a complete idiot..I dont put him on that extreme level,referring to the examples I gave above. I dont think he is thinking. "Yeah ima have sex with her, (rape her) then be done with her.. this is all I am after." or "this is her weak point, she is stunned, let me take this opportunity and get some sex." I think he probably fully expects to continue talking to her, and feels he may like her.

I guess... in the end, I dont disagree with the act itself being wrong. He raped her.. he is wrong. However, I dont think his mentality behind it was intentional. He is still fully responsible for his actions, I just dont think the thought process behind those actions were "hey lets rape/take advantage of koto."

If he wasn't trying to intentionally rape her.. he could change.

IF, and that is a big if, I am right.. If he didn't have the maliscious intent in mind to try to rape this girl... then it is also possible that when reality hits him ( that he wasn't making love to koto, or even having basic sex, but raping her.) he could be horrfied.. it is posible he could realize he made a mistake.. and not to make it again. Then again.. he could just not care.. it really does depends on what is going on in that head of his... and how he reacts after this.

hope that made sense..

If Taisuke raped Kotonoha and did it without any malicious intent to rape her. Then, Taisuke must be really effed-up in the mind. Because, when you think about it, what kind of thought-process you would have to possess to think this is rational:

[I "love" her] + [I told her I "love" her] + [I am hugging her] + [she isn't saying anything] = [I am allowed to have sex with her]

IMO, a person with a thought-process that would allow this to be rational possess a lower level of intelligence than of Makoto.

[Infinion]

Originally Posted by Vestus

If Taisuke raped Kotonoha and did it without any malicious intent to rape her. Then, Taisuke must be really effed-up in the mind. Because, when you think about it, what kind of thought-process you would have to possess to think this is rational:

[I "love" her] + [I told her I "love" her] + [I am hugging her] + [she isn't saying anything] = [I am allowed to have sex with her]

IMO, a person with a thought-process that would allow this to be rational possess a lower level of intelligence than of Makoto.

Now I see why Makoto and Taisuke are such good friends

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Vestus

If Taisuke raped Kotonoha and did it without any malicious intent to rape her. Then, Taisuke must be really effed-up in the mind. Because, when you think about it, what kind of thought-process you would have to possess to think this is rational:

[I "love" her] + [I told her I "love" her] + [I am hugging her] + [she isn't saying anything] = [I am allowed to have sex with her]

IMO, a person with a thought-process that would allow this to be rational possess a lower level of intelligence than of Makoto.

Though i'm not questioning Taisuke's "common sense", which is kinda similar to Makoto's. you must not forget that we don't have a specific "time estimation" of the scene. We don't know what really happened (we know some details, but not all of them), nor the sequence and the execution either.

But indeed, the mood is really out of the whack to believe "i can do it with her". But again, on the other hand, subjective details might take into account.
That said, you can do idiot and irrational decisions and actions, even without any malicious intent. Humans are quite...whimsical and unpredictable (or dumb...), ne? >_>

That said, i believe Zeira pretty much nailed the point about the shade of grey.

[Darkside]

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.

[Infinion]

Originally Posted by Darkside

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.

Rape isn't just violent and forced sex, if it isnt consensual then it's rape. And yes we do know what she's thinking, she's thinking about makoto and because of her low self-confidence (if she had any its completely gone now) she isn't putting up a fight. do you really think she wants to have sex with him?

[Darkside]

Sometimes when people are in that mental condition they actually go looking for sex

[Infinion]

that may be true but not in this particular situation

[felix]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Makoto - Immautre, stupid, insensetive, cheater and jerk

Taisuke - RAPIST
In Makoto's case he can grow up and learn to be more sensetive which would cure cheater and jerk.

Taisuke otoh, once a rapist always a rapist.

I rewatched it a couple of time. There's no explicit indication of rape there.
Or at least there's no clue that would have rape as the first option on the list.

But I think I know where you're all coming from with this.
In the game it was clearly rape wasn't it?

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Darkside

I don't see what all the hate on Taisuke is about. Sure he didn't do such a nice thing to Kotonoha, but what he did is no different than getting some chick drunk or drugged up and nailing her at a party or something. Stuff like that happens all the time in real life. It's not like they are going to send the army out to kill his ass now from something like this. It's funny seeing people's reactions to what he did to Kotonoha compared to when it happens when the genders are reveresed like when Fllay pretty much did the same thing to Kira, early in Gundam Seed. She didn't get bashed this hard lol.

And believe it or not, that is considered as rape as well. If the girl goes to police later and fills in a report that someone had his way with her while she was drunk, that person is going to get charged with rape. Simple as that. Consent given when the 'victim' is mentally incapacitated due to drugs/alcohol/nervous breakdown/whatever can be considered invalid. But even this point is moot in Kotonoha's situation, as she has not said she is fine with it. And no - silence does not equal consent. Consent is never assumed; it is the opposite.

That said i will gladly eat my shoe if it turns out he didn't rape her, but i consider the symbolism of the falling ribbon and ripples of blood (meaning her losing her virginity) to be quite blatant.

[ACE2003]

.....Okay, I'm lost in translation here. When in the world did Taisuke rape Katsura? That ribbon scene completely flew by my radar? Doesn't help that I haven't played the game either. I mean, she actually had "sex" with Taisuke? WTF? I didn't see them get naked or nothing?! Umm yeah...I'm definately keeping a close eye on the next episode. If that's the case, I don't think that Taisuke would be the type to rape somebody, at least I hope not.

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by Darkside

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.

Consent has to be given. If not, it's rape, which makes him a rapist. We'd see I guess.

I still -strongly- disagree with that "teenagers care only about sex, sex and sex" argument, -especially- to justify Taisuke's actions which most sane teens wouldn't do. But even besides that, it was such a bad generalization (yes, I know you weren't the one to post that).

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Darkside

I don't know, I think going and calling him a rapist is a bit strong. Usually rape is violent and forced. Although she isn't in the proper state of mind right now, we don't really know what she's thinking. If she doesn't resist at all, I'd say its all good. The surprise sex term seems more fitting.

I see reasoning behind and logic behind what your saying. But in a court of law her not saying anything is not giving consent its never assumed. Rape is not always violent and is always forced. I will take back everything iv said about Taisuke if it turns out that he did not rape her, but im willing to bet my soul he did the symbolism at the end imo is very blunt her ribbon falling implies hes taking off her top i doubt he would have just stop with chest action. The red ripples is so blunt it hurts, her viriginity being taken you could also argue that the circles were repersenting Koto's virgina and her being penetrated add the blood in and you have it. If you have another way view of how this scene can be taken please share. Im honestly interested in you view point.

My argument was if he really cared for her he would listened to what she had to say after he confessed or he could have tried to comfort her since she was in shock after his news. There is no way in hell he couldnt tell she top talking abruptly and was like lifeless log. I think surprise sex would be more fitting to a guy coming home to his girl and shes all laid out ready to go SURPRISE HONEY. BUt we all have our opinion and any number of us could be wrong. I dont ask for much just Taisuke to castrated, beaten the oiled up and thrown in a cell in jail with a bunch guys who havent seen the light of day in about 30 years

Cats you might want to edit the last sentence in your post.

[D a m i e n]

i havent watched any episode yet and dont plan on watching this show.
from what i reckon the main guy is cheating on girls left and right and everyone is getting pissed at him.
isnt this anime based on a hentai game? i mean the purpose of those sort of Hgames is to get as many girls as possible, so why should people get all pissy over this happening in the anime?
i cant judge since i havent watched anything but to me it seems you are getting the same incoherent story as you usually have in Hgame where you accumulate girls to you shopping list and eventually end hooking up with one of them.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by D a m i e n

isnt this anime based on a hentai game? i mean the purpose of those sort of Hgames is to get as many girls as possible, so why should people get all pissy over this happening in the anime?

pas du tout

first, School Days, the game, doesn't have the goal to have "many girls as possible". in fact, this kind of "harem" is simply non existent or extremely rare (and probably on a bigger scale of gruesome, etc)

Eroge in general focus on the "girl of your choice". In SD case, Makoto is in a "realistic" situation as he can interact with any girl and it can creates various situations.

Again, the fact it was a eroge first is completely irrelevant. basically, it is based on a story of romance and cheating, and many people just can't stand the various dubious, idiotic and careless decisions of the "protagonist". even in eroge, it is actually rare to cheat on the girl the guy is choosing. (very few examples... white album maybe?)

i cant judge since i havent watched anything but to me it seems you are getting the same incoherent story as you usually have in Hgame where you accumulate girls to you shopping list and eventually end hooking up with one of them.

That's not true either. Basically, in the usual progression of such game, once you are officially "hook" with a girl, there is almost never any possibility to change, and usually, you are going deeper in the plot and the girl backstory.
Ultimately, the goal is to "try" to pick the girl of your choice, though in SD, it is almost impossible to avoid "screws up", whereas Makoto can screw without your "permission" (some "innocent" choices can lead to disasters), and of course, you can do it by yourself. But the "end" doesn't get when you are "officially" the boyfriend of any of the girl, but when the MESS is cleaned (somehow)

you are talking about dating sim and peculiar games, which isn't SD type at all.

[Scribble]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

pas du tout

first, School Days, the game...

Wow, that actually sounds pretty interesting. I'd like to see how the game could twist seemingly innocent choises into bad ones. I wish that I could play it.


Er, am I the only one who thought that they were going to make Makoto and Taisuki ironic characters, judging from Taisuki's appearances prior to this episode? Makoto being the harmless looking one who's really the rat, while Taisuki is the perverted one who would actually turn out to be not so perverted when it came to a real girl. I expected Taisuki to be all like "HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A MAN, MAKOTO? YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING AROUND WITH ALL THESE GIRLS" and beat him up or something. Turns out that I was wrong =X

[asandari]

I never believed Taisuke had any malicious intent, I agree with you there, however that doesn't change what he did. Just like getting drunk, losing consciousness, and finding out you killed someone doesn't exempt you from punishment O.o

And any justifications about doing something to someone against their will is wrong. It's a breach of their rights. Not to mention, you then become responsible for any mistakes in your judgment, which is not fair to them.

What Taisuke did was wrong. The only question will be whether or not he'll regret it?
Makoto's in the same situation now, since he's realized the gravity of his actions, though his dilemma is better described as "Facing your mistakes vs. Running from the consequences".

I think that once those decisions come to light (or if...) that the true intent of this anime as a whole might be revealed. Though it's certainly possible for it to go in a completely different direction... we'll see xD

And you're right about nothing being black and white, that's what makes life so frustrating... fiction can be another matter of course, depending how you interpret it, this anime might not be one of those cases though...

[Echoes]

I get what you're saying, Taisuke is slightly above your average rapist in terms of morality. It's not much, though, rape is rape, after all. He deserves punishment.

[asandari]

I completely agree with you that he deserves punishment. But I think he's a fair amount higher than the average rapist xD

It depends how you judge integrity, I suppose, it's a result vs. process debate.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Echoes

I get what you're saying, Taisuke is slightly above your average rapist in terms of morality. It's not much, though, rape is rape, after all. He deserves punishment.

Originally Posted by asandari

I completely agree with you that he deserves punishment. But I think he's a fair amount higher than the average rapist xD

It depends how you judge integrity, I suppose, it's a result vs. process debate.

Average Rapist? A rapist is a rapist i dont know how one could impose levels of rapist. Now do i think hes someone who takes pleasure in hurting others no but he still violated someone in one of the worst ways you can. I just dont get the average rapist comment explain.