[Manga] Who is Hanzou

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by kodok_balls

Again.. why do you always added itachi invincible thing on discussion.
good point u write there.. quite objective . but again you spoil it by comparison of itachi's power which come frome no where compared to hanzou's power.
itachi is no godilike. he just skill ful and talented.pain is godlike ( the author confirmed it by character's dialogue ) and many2 char in narutoverese may possibly stronger than itachi.

I compare Itachi's power to God-like status based on how effective he is and how he is presented in comparison to other characters.

Sarutobi set the stage for the Sannin. His reputation was as the strongest ninja in the village, the Hokage was the most pretigious title. He was even called the "God of Shinobi" and stronger than all other Kage or the previous Hokages.

Yet Orochimaru defeated him, making him God-like. Itachi defeated Oro (and now we have seen that he did so effortlessly).

He has been presented as a flawless Ninja who can take out an opponent in the "Blink of an eye".

The only thing that humanizes him so far is that Mangekyo Sharingan is said to have a drawback when overused.

Other than that he is very much a God-like character. I do not know who is stronger between himself and Pain, but judging by how independent he seems I suspect that he will come out as the stronger of the two Akatsuki.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I compare Itachi's power to God-like status based on how effective he is and how he is presented in comparison to other characters.

Sarutobi set the stage for the Sannin. His reputation was as the strongest ninja in the village, the Hokage was the most pretigious title. He was even called the "God of Shinobi" and stronger than all other Kage or the previous Hokages.

Yet Orochimaru defeated him, making him God-like. Itachi defeated Oro (and now we have seen that he did so effortlessly).

Other than that he is very much a God-like character. I do not know who is stronger between himself and Pain, but judging by how independent he seems I suspect that he will come out as the stronger of the two Akatsuki.

Yes, but while Itachi has the rep of defeating Oro effortlessly, who in turn defeated Sarutobi; Pain has the rep of defeating Hanzou, who in turn defeated all three of the sannin; one of whome defeated Sarutobi... though in the comment that he has never once lost a fight and is credited for taking down the rain village and i think Pain has the better hype up in that reguard

[Kowai]

edit for the above^^^^
Pein has definatly the bigger hype up as he is directly referred to as god-like by the manga.
now this is the problem of takign what people from the manga say because... hwo the fck do they know? jsut because they are in the world does not know the truth abouy everything in it.
but from what people are saying abotu eachotehr... it seems pein is the more dangerous of the two as he has crushed more than a clan an entire village, and people fear him as kakashi does not fear itachi.

well age doesnt seem to matter in this series... the 3rd was still ridiculously strong and was hardly limited by hsi age, he seemed to use knowledge over strength.
also wasnt the Fuma clan mentioned in the filler of the anime? or what was that one where the 3 headed guy was a fake kabuto or w/e

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by Kowai

well age doesnt seem to matter in this series... the 3rd was still ridiculously strong and was hardly limited by hsi age, he seemed to use knowledge over strength.

The only thing that seems to be limited with age (as far as we have seen) is stamina...most older enemies have been limited by the length of time they have been able to fight ergo, their stamina is decreased...

Originally Posted by Kowai

also wasnt the Fuma clan mentioned in the filler of the anime? or what was that one where the 3 headed guy was a fake kabuto or w/e

Speculation around the forums is that the two are not translated the same, and the newer, manga-related, reference refers to Hattori Hanzou, the famous ninja supposedly killed by Fuma (manga) Kotaro, while the anime clan is not historically related...I'd be willing to believe it was a word the anime creators found interesting (Fuuma Shuriken and all...) and decided to create a clan based around the word...just a thought though...

[X_Danny_X]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

I compare Itachi's power to God-like status based on how effective he is and how he is presented in comparison to other characters.

Sarutobi set the stage for the Sannin. His reputation was as the strongest ninja in the village, the Hokage was the most pretigious title. He was even called the "God of Shinobi" and stronger than all other Kage or the previous Hokages.

Yet Orochimaru defeated him, making him God-like. Itachi defeated Oro (and now we have seen that he did so effortlessly).

He has been presented as a flawless Ninja who can take out an opponent in the "Blink of an eye".

The only thing that humanizes him so far is that Mangekyo Sharingan is said to have a drawback when overused.

Other than that he is very much a God-like character. I do not know who is stronger between himself and Pain, but judging by how independent he seems I suspect that he will come out as the stronger of the two Akatsuki.

Spoiler:

thing is Sarutobi is old and way past his PRIME! if he was still in his prime he would of defeated Oro most likely.

Oro was defeated by Tsunade, a girl, i have no respect for the man no more and having a win over him means nothing!!


if you are going to say God like then we need to here his God like accomplishments.............which there are none! nothing was given on him that he was undefeated or accomplished great God like feats. And we are hearing of Sasuke having better eyes then he does and will surpass him. I dont think that is a God like character in my eyes if there saying someone already has better Sharigan eyes than Itachi and could surpass him.

[inyourmamabed]

What make someone god like???????????

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

Yet Orochimaru defeated him, making him God-like. Itachi defeated Oro (and now we have seen that he did so effortlessly).

Oro defeating Sandaime did not make him God-like........as a matter of fact quite the contrary. Oro suffering such a beating from such an aged nin (and yes age was a factor in the fight, considering everyone kept referring to sarutobi's age as a handicap) was humbling; it knocked Oro off from the pedestal that made him seem god-like.

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

He has been presented as a flawless Ninja who can take out an opponent in the "Blink of an eye".

I believe you are actually thinking of Yondaime.

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

Other than that he is very much a God-like character. I do not know who is stronger between himself and Pain, but judging by how independent he seems I suspect that he will come out as the stronger of the two Akatsuki.

Everyone in Akatsuki seemed independent; it was a loose organization but the constant was always that the Akatsuki members took their orders from Pein, plain and simple. Oro was quite obviously independent as well, but it's highly doubtful that he was stronger than Pein. All the members seemingly had their own agenda, but they always followed the orders of the leader (who in turn may have followed the orders of Tobi/Madara). Not saying that Pein is definitely stronger than Itachi (but I think so), but saying because Itachi seems to act independently and thus he's secretly stronger is a fault of logic concerning Akatsuki. You just can't have total control over S-class criminals.

[AnbuItachi]

i wonder why oro tried to take itachi's body but not pains.

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by AnbuItachi

i wonder why oro tried to take itachi's body but not pains.

Because Oro wanted to obtain all the jutsus of the world, which the Sharingan would make all the easier to do. That and Pein would probably own him.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by inyourmamabed

What make someone god like???????????

To the shinobi in that village: (they mentioned the following things)

- Power (his jutsu's)
- Judgement (his kind of justice and punishment to the highest degree so far)
- Saving the village (protecting it and his shinobi at all times)
- Unknown appearance (nobody knows what he looks like)
- Undefeated ( 0 losses in battles)

Doing all this without help.

This guy is stronger then Hanzou...this guy Pein is stronger then all 3 combined.
There would be no point in introducing Hanzou if he wouldnt be stronger then all 3 combined. (that was the whole point of the flashback)

Dont even mention Itachi...he is way below this guy's level.
The fact that Itachi is going to face Sasuke probably means that they are close in strenght....there is no way Sasuke/Naruto/Kakashi is already that powerfull (comparing it to these guy's....such as Jiraiya/Pein)
We shall probably learn why Tobi is in command (that guy has got to be even stronger) with another hype like Pein.

[kodok_balls]

haha, come on guys.. oro defeated by itachi ? yeah it seems so. but they aren't fighting either. Oro are trying to overpower itachi's body not try to kill him. that is the greatest misperception I think that lead into itachis euphoria. oro desperately searching for sharingan to add compliment in his journey. though he found itachi resist and hard to overpowered.he failed to acquire his body. that's all.there is never stated that he is so desparately looking sharingan to take revenge on itachi. and why is he looking for sasuke. because sasuke is a volunteer at prior occassion.
I still don't believe that itachi could handle jiraiya . though we already witnessed he is escaping from him. that doesn't made him godlike.

and what's make character godlike ??
it was statement by the author through scene and char's dialogue
not our perception

[DriftingShinobi]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

To the shinobi in that village: (they mentioned the following things)

- Power (his jutsu's)
- Judgement (his kind of justice and punishment to the highest degree so far)
- Saving the village (protecting it and his shinobi at all times)
- Unknown appearance (nobody knows what he looks like)
- Undefeated ( 0 losses in battles)

Doing all this without help.

This guy is stronger then Hanzou...this guy Pein is stronger then all 3 combined.
There would be no point in introducing Hanzou if he wouldnt be stronger then all 3 combined. (that was the whole point of the flashback)

Dont even mention Itachi...he is way below this guy's level.
The fact that Itachi is going to face Sasuke probably means that they are close in strenght....there is no way Sasuke/Naruto/Kakashi is already that powerfull (comparing it to these guy's....such as Jiraiya/Pein)
We shall probably learn why Tobi is in command (that guy has got to be even stronger) with another hype like Pein.

Who would ever have thot there would be a shinobi with more hype and probbaly stronger than the all might Itachi? I love it, wish there would be a flash back of Pain kicking Itachi's ass when he was joining Aka! That would just make my day, not only to see Itachi owned, but also seeing some high-level jutsus!!

[mayhem]

you have to take into consideration his age at the time he fought the sannin to his age which he fought pein. The sannin looked to be around 18 19ish so that fight was well over 30 + years ago and the sannin probably were not at their hight as Hanzou was. It is likely that hanzou was a very very old man when we fought pein unlike when he was in his prime when he fought the sannin as well so with that in mind pein is probably not AS powerful as some would believe him to be but he indeed is very powerful, his status in AK is proof enough of that.

But I doubt that if the 3 sannin fought pein right now that pein could defeat all three of them... they would likely mop the floor with him in a 3-1 situation at their current level.

[Davitz]

i thought this was a thread about who hanzou is not wen people were at there prime and how come he could be defeated?

[inyourmamabed]

I don't think Hanzou was just a hype. There too many things left unsaid. Like why was Hanzou the only one fighting back? Was he the hokage of that land and he just wasn't going to let pain have it? Why was Sannin fighting Hanzou? I though it could of been the great ninja wars but that couldn't be the case because. There's a whole other village between them. So it couldn't be a war. Everybody is saying that the sannin was the last people left standing in some mega big fight with Hanzou and his people. I don't think so, look at that page again with the ninjas on the floor................ there's only five or six ninjas on the ground. To me that's not no big fight. I think that Hanzou beat the whole the sannin and their squad by his self! That's why Jiraiya couldn't believe that ONE person beat him. What's even worst, Hanzou didn't even have a mark on him. I'm am right?

[Slayerx]

I don't think Hanzou was just a hype. There too many things left unsaid. Like why was Hanzou the only one fighting back? Was he the hokage of that land and he just wasn't going to let pain have it? Why was Sannin fighting Hanzou? I though it could of been the great ninja wars but...

Hanzou was the leader of the rain village... he and the orginal rain ninjas were all fighting against Pain and his forces in a civil war; Hanzou lead one side, Pain lead the other. Pain however came in and killed Hanzou and the rest of the village toppled, leaving Pain in control with his ninjas.

Not sure if your map is right... this is the one they got on wiki

Rain here is on the border of the fire country, which in turn works in the context of what they were saying about rain being in the middle of 3 major countries thus making it the center of the wars, without the same applying to grass; which in the above image is only between two major countries.

however, even if they weren't then they could have still fought against eachother. As we saw in Kakashi gaiden, grass and Kohona were allies against the rock village... grant it, that was only 10 years ago and i imagine this battle to have taken place more like 20 years ago, but still, it does mean that grass could have been involved in the same war.

though i agree it would be nice to hear more depth about the ninja wars and what not, more about the history of the naruto world.
Frankly, i kind of wish that Kishi would do what one piece does and make use of the cover page or something to give use some more info... like some naruto-verse history, info on the other villages, maybe flashbacks to other chunin exams... grant it they wouldn't be that dramtics in that fashion, but they would be informative... hell the anime could have made use of such things to make GOOD fillers

[Bari_Phillis]

I dunno about all you guys, but I personally think that Hanzou is one of the most badassly drawn characters in all of naruto. I mean, cmon! you gotta love him! (can anyone get a pic on here?)

I dissagree with the whole time= worse
more time = learn more jutsus, more training, gaining intilegence.
Kishi has always stressed time in the story. (We need more time! Naruto's new training method will reduce time. What time is it Sakura? Im sorry im late children, I got lost on the road of life)
more time= better. of course there is a certain point when you do get too old and begin t form moles on your butt and wrinkles on you skin but Jaraiya does not, to me, give off this appearance.

I am willing to bet that the sannin, young maybe, were not infact in their prime. They looked pretty pathetic on the field; like just a bunch of kids. I think that if kishimoto wanted them to look allpowerful he would have drawn them in action, or at least upped their appearance.

I willing to bet that the Jaraiya now would do better against pein than his younger (as we saw) age.

[kodok_balls]

Originally Posted by inyourmamabed

I don't think Hanzou was just a hype. There too many things left unsaid. Like why was Hanzou the only one fighting back? Was he the hokage of that land and he just wasn't going to let pain have it? Why was Sannin fighting Hanzou? I though it could of been the great ninja wars but that couldn't be the case because. There's a whole other village between them. So it couldn't be a war. Everybody is saying that the sannin was the last people left standing in some mega big fight with Hanzou and his people. I don't think so, look at that page again with the ninjas on the floor................ there's only five or six ninjas on the ground. To me that's not no big fight. I think that Hanzou beat the whole the sannin and their squad by his self! That's why Jiraiya couldn't believe that ONE person beat him. What's even worst, Hanzou didn't even have a mark on him. I'm am right?

haha, perhaps the author is feel exhausted to draw so many ninja body....

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Bari_Phillis

I am willing to bet that the sannin, young maybe, were not infact in their prime. They looked pretty pathetic on the field; like just a bunch of kids. I think that if kishimoto wanted them to look allpowerful he would have drawn them in action, or at least upped their appearance.

Kishi wanted them to look defeated! he wanted it to be crystal clear that the grestest ninja in kohona were beaten. It was not a draw, it was a defeat. If he wants to draw them defeated then ofcourse they are gonna look pretty pathetic like that... kind of hard to look all powerful when you barely have the strength to stand on your own two feet... it's clear that Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Oro gave it their all and were beaten...

also, Hanzou gave them the title of sannin in that fight, it's pretty obvious that is not the kind of title you give to just anyone, it's the title you give to the best of the best; which was probably true since this was before the time of yondiame and was probably about the time that ninjas like Sarutobi and Danzou were starting to get old (i'm guessing the sannin to be 25-35 years old and the older ninja to be 45-55 years old at the time)

When it comes down to it, that flashback was when Jiriaya was able to fight and measure Hanzou's strength, and it is from that fight that jiyaira comes to the conclusion that no one man today, not even himself is capable of defeating Hanzou...

[Sinaura]

Hanzou was Pein's sensei, plain and simple.