Romance in Code Geass (Take 2)

[Juvyniled]

I see your point, but does Lelouch really know he can over throw the empire? I think he believes it but how true that may be is another story.

Lelouch is portrayed as a great strategist and highly intelligent individual. I doubt he would even put it past him to realize that he has been given so many options to achieve certain goals (Geass gives him those options). But Lelouch isn't ready just yet to walk that path of dark and evilness just yet (if you don't know what I'm trying to imply, he could use his Geass in very sadistic and cruel ways to achieve his goals).


I won't downplay the admiration she has for Zero, but even that alone wouldn't be enough to push Kallen into pursuing romance or even just "hooking" up with him. She loves the mask, that is, the character who possesses the mask. Lelouch is a different story. Can she really love Lelouch? I've gotta admit that Kallen overreacted to the revelation, but that is a huge revelation for any unsuspecting character. If she didn't know who Lelouch was at all, I doubt the reaction would've been that extravagant. But knowing who it was, knowing that he has been by her side all this time and has kept her in the dark... she put all her trust in him, so why therefore could he not do the same for her? (Rhetorical question, we the audience know why he could not)

As for Kallen's role with perspective to the Order, Lelouch really severed his connection with her by isolating himself from her when he acquired the Gawain. No longer was she his "first mate," his right-hand person, etc. Even if her trust doesn't wane, she would feel a bit let down that as being his strongest supporter up til now, he's left her for some other relatively unknown person (to them).

Losing Kallen at this point won't make much of difference in terms of who leaves their ranks and who doesn't. If they've already committed themselves this much, they will either stay or they will leave regardless of whether Kallen dies or not. Initially, it would've been less disputable, but now... Kallen is more expendable than before. It was clear that her services were needed less when Lelouch acquired Gawain and partnered up with C.C.

-> I see this poll and thread as more of an indicator of final episode or season ending pairings. Romance is highly indisputable in this series as far as main character relationships are concerned.

[ani_d]

If the creators went as far as to put Kallen into the final scene of season 1 (together with other major characters) then I don't think she's THAT expendable and irrelevant to the story. ^_^ Who cares about lulu's intention, it's all about Sunrise haha

And all we say here are just opinions that would be easily swayed once the second season starts running. I would rather anticipate what Karen does NEXT now that the identity barrier is no more before I say anything. I'm hoping to see some progress atleast. :] SuzakuxKaren or KarenxLuluxCC, whatever. I just want to see some drama with Karen LOL

[Var]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I won't downplay the admiration she has for Zero, but even that alone wouldn't be enough to push Kallen into pursuing romance or even just "hooking" up with him. She loves the mask, that is, the character who possesses the mask. Lelouch is a different story. Can she really love Lelouch? I've gotta admit that Kallen overreacted to the revelation, but that is a huge revelation for any unsuspecting character. If she didn't know who Lelouch was at all, I doubt the reaction would've been that extravagant. But knowing who it was, knowing that he has been by her side all this time and has kept her in the dark... she put all her trust in him, so why therefore could he not do the same for her? (Rhetorical question, we the audience know why he could not)

I would think that knowing that Zero was by her side the whole time, doing what he did to show her the reality of the world (that she can't just act instinctively and save the hot dog guy for instance) would be more of a boon than detriment. Yes she put her all her trust in him, and he offered to do the same (he offered her his identity), she is the one who declined it. She knew why he couldn't/shouldn't, not just the audience.

As for Kallen's role with perspective to the Order, Lelouch really severed his connection with her by isolating himself from her when he acquired the Gawain. No longer was she his "first mate," his right-hand person, etc. Even if her trust doesn't wane, she would feel a bit let down that as being his strongest supporter up til now, he's left her for some other relatively unknown person (to them).

I wouldn't say he's left her. It was originally her idea that Zero should use the MkII as it would be the safest place. I would imagine this would also carry over to the Gawain. He is putting himself in a place where it will be much harder for him to die, I do not see it as severing his connection to her. She is also the best pilot for the MkII, if he were to just take her with him in Gawain he would be wasting resources.

Losing Kallen at this point won't make much of difference in terms of who leaves their ranks and who doesn't. If they've already committed themselves this much, they will either stay or they will leave regardless of whether Kallen dies or not. Initially, it would've been less disputable, but now... Kallen is more expendable than before. It was clear that her services were needed less when Lelouch acquired Gawain and partnered up with C.C.

I was not so much referring to her dieing as I was to her leaving/ abandoning the order. In the eyes of the OoTBK she is still one of the key members, and the leader of Zero's personal squad. If that person were to leave, red flags would fly up everywhere and would weaken the connection between Zero and his organization. When Lelouch acquired Gawain her role overall diminished until the last episode but she was still a key figure within the OoTBK. She is expendable to die, yes, but if she leaves, I see a lot more problems for Lelouch.

-> I see this poll and thread as more of an indicator of final episode or season ending pairings. Romance is highly indisputable in this series as far as main character relationships are concerned.

Tis true.

[Adam E]

None of the Lelouch pairings really jumped out at me. Either Lelouch x C.C. or Lelouch x Kallen is fine with me, though I've been leaning towards Kallen because I like her character more. But, it remains to be seen what direction their relationship goes after the season finale; Kallen doing a Suzaku and trying her best to kill Lelouch wouldn’t bode well for romance. C.C. is all right since her bond with him is strong, though I’ve always been somewhat alienated from her since she isn’t quite human.

The only pairing I voted for was Viletta x Ougi. Too bad she shot him.

Oh, and I think that Suzaku x Euphemia should be in the poll, despite Euphie being dead. It can still be someone’s favorite pairing.

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

Can she really love Lelouch?

Lelouch is awesome and the main character. Anyone could love him, given enough time (harem effect). I'm more concerned about Lelouch being able to love a woman.

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I've gotta admit that Kallen overreacted to the revelation, but that is a huge revelation for any unsuspecting character.

Yeah, but Kallen was suspecting him earlier in the series so I think she was really overreacting. Then, Suzaku was all like, "I suspected you were Zero the whole time." Shouldn't Suzaku and Kallen’s reactions been reversed a bit?

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

Losing Kallen at this point won't make much of difference in terms of who leaves their ranks and who doesn't.

Well, Kallen is still the best pilot in the Order. Gawain is powerful and all, but since Lelouch is a relatively crappy pilot he still loses duels that Kallen wouldn't (Cornelia) or would fare better in (Suzaku).

[Juvyniled]

Lelouch is awesome and the main character. Anyone could love him, given enough time (harem effect). I'm more concerned about Lelouch being able to love a woman.

Is there any purpose in pointing out what the producers could obviously put into effect? It's undeniable that the majority of the audience loves Lelouch's character, but if you take each character's perspective into consideration (without the bias of spectator favoritism), it's quite debatable.

And yes, Lelouch can love a woman. But that isn't his top priority at this point (probably isn't even third on his to do list).

Yeah, but Kallen was suspecting him earlier in the series so I think she was really overreacting. Then, Suzaku was all like, "I suspected you were Zero the whole time." Shouldn't Suzaku and Kallen’s reactions been reversed a bit?

I'm assuming you did watch the earlier episodes. Recall the shower scene and how Lelouch managed to change her mind by playing the message through the phone. And I'm assuming you watched the later episodes too (or not, since it's pretty much a dead give away why Suzaku isn't overreacting). Who knows, maybe that kid didn't reveal Lelouch's identity, but I'm pretty sure by then all the hints added up (Suzaku received a LOT more hints than Kallen).

Well, Kallen is still the best pilot in the Order. Gawain is powerful and all, but since Lelouch is a relatively crappy pilot he still loses duels that Kallen wouldn't (Cornelia) or would fare better in (Suzaku).

I'm not talking about how strong or weak the Order will be if it loses Kallen. I'm talking about who stays and who goes if Kallen goes (dies or leaves). In the beginning, Kallen's position in the Order was important and it essentially tied the Knights to their leader. Now... if they're going to leave, they're going to leave because their leader stranded them in the midst of a battle. If they stay, they'll stay because they believe Zero can still help them get their indepence. Kallen's position is less important now than it was before.

[Terra]

But Kallen still holds an important position in that she could change some of their minds over whether to leave or not since she went with Zero and knows why he left. Her choice of whether to stick with Lelouch or not could have a big impact overall with the Black Knights.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Terra

But Kallen still holds an important position in that she could change some of their minds over whether to leave or not since she went with Zero and knows why he left. Her choice of whether to stick with Lelouch or not could have a big impact overall with the Black Knights.

But Kallen's position in the order is no longer as important as it used to be, back then when they were just plain terrorists. She was their best pilot, and supplied the most firepower.

But now the Black Knights have a much larger army, and much of it has little to do with her. Specifically, Kaguya and Kirihara combined are the real support of the Black Knights, and they are far more vital to BK than Kallen now. They supply the money and technology via Laksharta, and they aren't going to abandon Zero for just this minor incident. (The Kyoto group had funded far less organised and even more useless groups in the past, so the Black Knight's current issues are hardly a reason to back out. And Kirihara knows who Zero is, so he understands what Zero is fighting for.)

In essence, the Black Knights is too powerful a presence to disband currently. At least, you will need more than a disgruntled Kallen to shake the foundations.

[Terra]

The problem is too much of the command staff is of that original group. It won't destroy the Black Knights, but it'll do some damage that'll take time to heal. Kyoto aren't there following Zero's orders. They're just support. But when half your command staff walks, people notice and want to know why. That creates doubt which will spread and take time to get rid of.

[Juvyniled]

But the difference is, those "command staff" that you're referring to are given somewhat of a reason to leave if it comes down to it (but they'll have nothing left to return to if they quit now). If anyone of the upper tiers of command should leave, I'd imagine it'd be a domino effect. But to that extent, any of those "leaders" would then be capable of causing such an effect. Hence, Kallen is no different from the others who are fighting for the same cause, now. Back then, she was the rope that tied the Knights and Zero together. She was the only one then who really trusted and supported him. But now it's a much more different case.

If I'm not mistaken, what Vallen is trying to say is this: The Order is a much larger and more diverse group than before. Initially you had Kallen and the Knights and so it was important for Zero to sustain her trust and support. Now... you have all sorts of people, and not all of them are just individuals, but groups and organizations... What these people hear and see with regards to the Order are the accomplishments and feats of Zero, the leader of the Order. He has heralded all of the attention and support that he has now, and therefore, he is the sole link in keeping the Order together, not Todou, not Kaguya, not any other individual or organization.

... why do you suppose all of those soldiers reacted the way they did in the final episode? Their focus was Zero.

[Twisted Reality]

I once showed a friend Code Geass. He raised the question of who Lelouch would ultimately end up with. (This was the episode in Narita -- specifically the water cave scene where Karen learns about C.C.)

I postulated that it was quite plausible that Lelouch would be dead long before we got any resolution to the whole affair. The guy lives a pretty dangerous lifestyle.

Ah, but he's the hero right? He always gets the girl and saves the day. Unless, you know, the producers want to make Lelouch a tragic hero and kill him at the very end. I mean, so far, he's doing pretty well with all the rehearsals where his master plans backfire through no fault of his own.

As I figure, it, killing Lelouch wouldn't keep people from being amply serviced by the mere hint of romance.

Also, as I'm sure I mentioned before, I'm shipping Lloyd x Nina. Mostly because I want Nina to stop being so annoying and become a (relatively) better-adjusted mad scientist. Who needs all that angst when you want to blow up the moon or whatever? May as well do it with euphoric glee, know what I'm saying?

[DragoonKain3]

Actually, NinaXLloyd is a match in heaven IMO, both having a few bolts loose despite being geniuses. Of course, I'm still LloydXCecille all the way. Or even LloydXLaksharta, however a long shot that is. XD

As for Lulu pairings, it's just gonna come down to this. In the case of Lulu-->Anyone, as of right now, no one can make a claim without substantial evidence. Unless of course its Lulu-->CC, which unless you're blind you would see the anvil size hints and the foreshadowing (lasting an entire arc no less!) for it.

So sorry LuluXKaren fans, that pairing is as unlikely as LuluXMilly, LuluXShirley if all the evidence on your part is Karen-->Lulu/Zero. No one is trying to stop you from shipping that pairing, but if you're trying to debate that it has a decent chance of happening judging from existing footage, you don't really have much to work with. Sure it has more evidence than the next KarenXanyone pairing (aka KarenXSuzaku), but just barely. And certainly not even close to how much evidence points to LuluXCC.

Speaking of debating...

Originally Posted by MeatRose

assume that you wrote that as a response to what I said earlier. If you read my post again you will find that you must have skipped some of the words. I was referring to the way things are now, after the recent turn of events (the finale), not before. Ofc she doesn't know Lelouch better than anyone else in the world, but I was referring to Zero since she is now the only member of the OotBK who knows about his true identity... and that he happens to be someone she knows from school. Ofc Nunnally, and C.C. (eg) knows him better as a person (as Lelouch).

First off I'd like to say that comment is directed at the general population, since I know of quite a few people who thinks KarenXLulu is much more likely now that Karen knows of Zero's true identity. Of which I go...

But continuing with the topic at hand, you're saying that because Karen is the only one who knows of Zero's alter ego right now, she knows Zero the best in the entire world? I mean, your original words were...

Their relationship might even become stronger, as a result of the recent turn of events, due to the fact that Kallen is now the one human being in the world (yes, C.C. is not human) that knows Zero the best. (I'm not including Suzaku in this equation due to the fact that he's a raging lunatic.)

If that indeed is what you are saying, then I whole heartedly disagree. Just because one knows of the other's alter ego doesn't mean one suddenly understands that other person (even one aspect of him, say the Zero aspect of Lulu) a whole lot more. I mean, Shirley didn't do all that hot in the understanding department when she still had her memory. And judging by Karen's reaction in the last episode, I think Karen did a whole lot worse than Shirley.

To be clear, I define the Zero aspect of Lelouche would be the ruthless military tactician. To be more precise, Zero is the aspect of Lelouche without his private life (aka Nunally, his past, and his family, all of which I categorize under his 'Lulu' aspect) involved. Ever since the OotBK has formed up to the very last episode, Karen has followed Zero to his absolute word despite not knowing the logic or heck, even the purpose of the plan. And we have a term for that, and that is 'blind faith', which as any know, is a far cry from understanding.

CC understands the Zero aspect. Cornelia would be next, being able to anticipate his moves in one form or another.The elder brother understands Zero to a degree, as did Euphie. But Karen? I fail to see how knowing that it's really Lulu behind the mask helps her any in understanding Zero. The only ones who would benefit of such knowledge would be the ones who already know Lulu, and Karen isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by Var

This would be true if it weren't for the facts that, Lelouch believes Kallen is capable, which she has shown,

And your point is? I was saying to compare and contrast how Lulu sends CC and Karen off to battle. CC is as capable of piloting the mechs as Karen, and yet the difference on how he sends them off to battle is as obvious as night and day. On top of that, Lulu knows CC can't die, and you get the picture.

he has, on several occasions, taken enemy attention from Kallen.

He what? I'm under the impression it's the exact opposite; he sends for Karen so he could actually get away. I certainly don't remember the moments you speak of, maybe some episode numbers may refresh my memory?

[Pistbag]

I remember in episode 24 when Kallen and Sazaku were fighting, Sazaku was about to kill her when Lelouch came in and baited him to the circle thing that stops the mechs. Well it was for the purpose of taking out Lancealot, but IMO Lelouch woulda tried to save her anyway. There might be other situations like this, but my memory isn't that good =/

[Juvyniled]

What good is Kallen to him dead, especially when there are other alternatives? It appeared that Lelouch had the trap ready to spring on Suzaku, so either way he was going to use it, and why would he not use it before Kallen gets shot?

I won't downplay the pairing, but romance between the two in the course of the series (that is, before the end) is not likely at all. Zero intervening on behalf of Kallen's safety is just as well a pretty weak indicator of romance considering that it is for pragmatic reasons that either would do so (Kallen to preserve the one person who can lead them to independence, Zero to keep a strong subordinate on his side). And typically, the type of rescue-to-romance scenarios involve somewhat of a dramatic prince rescues his princess from a major catastrophe (ie, she's about to fall from a cliff, a bomb or a spray of bullets/knives/whatever is coming at her, etc. which basically involves putting ones own life on the line) circumstance.

[RonaldC]

Lelouch x C.C.

[She-Chan]

Lelouch x C.C or Lelouch x Kallen.

[WhiteWings]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

And typically, the type of rescue-to-romance scenarios involve somewhat of a dramatic prince rescues his princess from a major catastrophe (ie, she's about to fall from a cliff, a bomb or a spray of bullets/knives/whatever is coming at her, etc. which basically involves putting ones own life on the line) circumstance.

And Lelouch would more likely to be the one being rescued rather being the one rescuing. Kallen is the more athletic and combat capable type while Lelouch is the stratetgist and brains.

[Turambar]

Lulu x CC, but why is Nina x Table mysteriously missing?

[Cal-Reflector]

For the imaginative thinkers on this thread: Suppose it was some one else, any one, like... Lelouch who stood up to protect Nina when she was confronted by those Japanese soldiers. Do you think she might have fallen in love with him/her instead?

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector

For the imaginative thinkers on this thread: Suppose it was some one else, any one, like... Lelouch who stood up to protect Nina when she was confronted by those Japanese soldiers. Do you think she might have fallen in love with him/her instead?

ignoring the fact that it was first and foremost a plot driven love...

well, I think that very much depends on the person...it couldn't have just been anyone. It's an obsession, and not one based so much on the actual person (she was damn lucky to be able to meet Euphie again) but the fame and that one connection to this famous person. same as people who are obsessed with pop singers or movie stars.

so basically, if they have a particularly interesting/outstanding past, Nina would have found out about it afterwards when checking out about this person who rescued her and why, and either she finds out they're famous, or can't find out anything. And at that point it would develop into a full blown obsession.


which basically means
Successes: Lelouch, Nunally (standing... ;_; ) any other Royal family member, Suzaku, Todou, Kaguya , CC, and VV. some of the pilots, like Darlton/Guilford/4 holy swords, also have a shot, and I'm guessing Lloyd and Lakshata would probably be a sucess too.

failures: Kallen, Shirley, Milly, Rivalz (god he's like Sacchin 2.0), Sayoko, Diethard, Cecile, anyone at the school, any of the remaining black knights

can't even see the purity faction being in that situation, nor Mao, and just about everyone else isn't "pretty enough" for a fixation from Nina. (i.e., totally random people)

[cicido]

Originally Posted by Pistbag

I remember in episode 24 when Kallen and Sazaku were fighting, Sazaku was about to kill her when Lelouch came in and baited him to the circle thing that stops the mechs. Well it was for the purpose of taking out Lancealot, but IMO Lelouch woulda tried to save her anyway. There might be other situations like this, but my memory isn't that good =/

IMO, lulu was trying to save suzaku <--- fan girl moment