Claymore - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[hollywoodlou]

gave it a 6. Originally started with a 9 because Raki was crying like a sissy but Jean ruined it by being Dr. Phil and convincing the twerp that he could be something. I actually gave it a 1 BUT Galatea showed up with great quotes so I'm back to 6.

[syniel]

I don't think there's anything wrong with rating the eps based on an emotional reaction, personally. So long as everyone knows that's where it's coming from he/she isn't being disingenuous at all.

Generally, I've loved people's reactions to the show this thread. There aren't so many "I hate Raki" comments, so far, too

[NezoR]

What I would like to know is why they are "forcing" an ending? Why cant Claymore end on a cliffhanger and continue with OVAs, Madhouse doing a second season years later or a different company doing a second season years later... like Full Metal Panic (Gonzo) --> Full Metal Panic TSR (KyoAni). Or is it that Claymore is not popular enough to warrant a second season?

[Tempest35]

First off I’ll say that I really liked this episode. So what if it was just a build-up ep – it’s the build up to THE fight that everyone – even us manga readers – are truly looking forward to (despite the wait that it will entail). Clare vs Priscilla - this is the end-all, be-all.

Ah, to hell with manga comparisons...we're getting fanservice right now. Live with it. Thank you Madhouse

The youki visuals were beautiful. Much better than DBZ power ups – they only took 10 seconds at the most and not a lot of screentime in totality.

Helen really shone in this episode too – I’m glad they focused on her for a change. I really think that Helen thinks of Clare as being her little sister, possibly because she did lose one to a youma. Added to Miria’s determination to find her no matter what and Deneve honoring Undine before going with them was definitely a ‘All for One and One for All’ moment. Comrades Banzai.

Oh and Jean. Jean wouldn't be Jean if she did not take precious time trying to live to go motivate Raki a bit to move his little emo-arsing self. I'm glad he pulled out - I felt like performing one of those Epic Punches to knock him out of it. I Love Jean too. Don't die yet Jean...;_;
C'mon Raki, go impale yourself on Priscilla's horn so that she won't be able to see Clare coming. XD I'm teasing here...

And, as always, Priscilla… I don’t know why I like this girl – probably because she can stir the most debate about with just the mention of her name. That and she iced the strongest (and apparently most revered) character right off the bat. XD After watching this ep, I’m almost 100% certain that Priscilla has two personalities or alter egos if you will – Claymore Pris and Awakened Pris. See reasoning inside...

Spoiler for Alter EGOS:

There's a couple of things that got my brain wrapped around the 'dual personality/alter ego' theory. First off, the way her voice changed and her expression, rather, her eyes. Even the manner of speech seems different. When Claymore Pris regained her memories, you noticed how did she react – almost identically to how she reacted when Teresa was defeating her. Even more so, her already unbalanced mentality was dealing with the memories of learning that she had not only killed Teresa, but that she Awakened while doing so. That, I think, was the trigger for Awakened Pris to manifest once again. It wasn’t the memories of killing her youmafied father, nor was it the shock of learning she had in fact killed Priscilla, whom she’s still deathly afraid of, but it was the shock of learning that she had Awakened that overloaded Claymore Pris. We all can remember how much Claymore Pris loved justice and righteousness so one can see why she’d flip at learning that she had become one of the monsters she had sworn to protect humanity from.

Why do I think dual personalities/alter egos? I’ve seen this before in the GetBackers story with Ginji Amano. He has an alter ego that they call ‘Raitei’ or ‘Lightning Lord’ in the story. While Ginji is not too bright, happy-go-lucky, and the most fun-loving and forgiving person you’d ever meet, piss him off too much and you get ‘Lightning Lord’, his alter ego. You can say that ‘LL’ is his defense mechanism whenever things get too tough for Ginji to comprehend and deal with. LL is completely different, down to the point where they even give off different ki. LL is a pure fighting machine, down to the point of his opponents say he fights by instinct and not by his conscious mind and can use the full measure of the power granted him through lighting, down to manipulating plasma to make dummies of himself in mid battle without his opponents perceiving that he had such knowledge to begin with (which he doesn’t, he just fights by instinct – kinda like how Battle Angel Alita can fight so well using plasma and knowing all its little tricks but sit her down in front of a book and she’s a blank).

I say that because Awakend Pris gives me the same vibe as LL does. Awakened Pris came out when Claymore Pris tried to comprehend herself Awakening and she couldn’t. So Awakend Pris put the blame of Awakening on Teresa in a way that would justify Priscilla Awakening to begin with. Now that she could feel Teresa’s youki again, she now has an outlet to vent Claymore Pris’s frustration through. Awakened Pris operates on her own level that’s ‘above the law’ if you will. She’s not bound to the same rules as Claymore Pris perceives that she is.

[mercury lampe]

Originally Posted by cors8

I still don't get how Priscilla manages to associate what happened to her as being all Teresa's fault.....

I guess the flashbacks just reinforced how illogical she is...

Simple...

When Priscila become a claymore, she felt that she was in the right side, fighting por justice and human's sake.

Then, she was sending by te Org to defeat the traitor Teresa, whose evilness was showed when she killed some humans and challenge Org's authority.

Obviously, this is completely unforgivable from Priscila's point of view, and always believing that she represented the justice, Priscila proceeded to kill Teresa.

Until here, all is nice and Priscila's little word and beliefs kept save and untouched. But, unfortunately for her, the former rang #2 coulden't defeat Teresa, and you know, this is new: the strong paladin of justice Priscila were losing in front of teresa's evilness.

At this point, Priscila remembered something that she wanted to forget the most: the fear and the powerless she experimented when a yoma who looked exactly like her father was eating her family.

Little Priscila knew that this was unfair; she was innocent and neither her nor her relatives don't deserve such a punishment. Then, using the fear as a link, the mind of Priscila could connect both unjustices: that one of the yoma eating her beloveds, and this one where she (the justice) coulden't do anything against Teresa (the evilness)

This is how (i think) Priscila identified that yoma with Teresa.

Hope i've helped a little.

[DazarGaidin]

Originally Posted by hollywoodlou

gave it a 6. Originally started with a 9 because Raki was crying like a sissy but Jean ruined it by being Dr. Phil and convincing the twerp that he could be something. I actually gave it a 1 BUT Galatea showed up with great quotes so I'm back to 6.

lol it sounds like you have you finger on the trigger as you watch the show..

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Spoiler for size:

First off I’ll say that I really liked this episode. So what if it was just a build-up ep – it’s the build up to THE fight that everyone – even us manga readers – are truly looking forward to (despite the wait that it will entail). Clare vs Priscilla - this is the end-all, be-all.

Ah, to hell with manga comparisons...we're getting fanservice right now. Live with it. Thank you Madhouse

The youki visuals were beautiful. Much better than DBZ power ups – they only took 10 seconds at the most and not a lot of screentime in totality.

Helen really shone in this episode too – I’m glad they focused on her for a change. I really think that Helen thinks of Clare as being her little sister, possibly because she did lose one to a youma. Added to Miria’s determination to find her no matter what and Deneve honoring Undine before going with them was definitely a ‘All for One and One for All’ moment. Comrades Banzai.

Oh and Jean. Jean wouldn't be Jean if she did not take precious time trying to live to go motivate Raki a bit to move his little emo-arsing self. I'm glad he pulled out - I felt like performing one of those Epic Punches to knock him out of it. I Love Jean too. Don't die yet Jean...;_;
C'mon Raki, go impale yourself on Priscilla's horn so that she won't be able to see Clare coming. XD I'm teasing here...

And, as always, Priscilla… I don’t know why I like this girl – probably because she can stir the most debate about with just the mention of her name. That and she iced the strongest (and apparently most revered) character right off the bat. XD After watching this ep, I’m almost 100% certain that Priscilla has two personalities or alter egos if you will – Claymore Pris and Awakened Pris. See reasoning inside...

Spoiler for Alter EGOS:

There's a couple of things that got my brain wrapped around the 'dual personality/alter ego' theory. First off, the way her voice changed and her expression, rather, her eyes. Even the manner of speech seems different. When Claymore Pris regained her memories, you noticed how did she react – almost identically to how she reacted when Teresa was defeating her. Even more so, her already unbalanced mentality was dealing with the memories of learning that she had not only killed Teresa, but that she Awakened while doing so. That, I think, was the trigger for Awakened Pris to manifest once again. It wasn’t the memories of killing her youmafied father, nor was it the shock of learning she had in fact killed Priscilla, whom she’s still deathly afraid of, but it was the shock of learning that she had Awakened that overloaded Claymore Pris. We all can remember how much Claymore Pris loved justice and righteousness so one can see why she’d flip at learning that she had become one of the monsters she had sworn to protect humanity from.

Why do I think dual personalities/alter egos? I’ve seen this before in the GetBackers story with Ginji Amano. He has an alter ego that they call ‘Raitei’ or ‘Lightning Lord’ in the story. While Ginji is not too bright, happy-go-lucky, and the most fun-loving and forgiving person you’d ever meet, piss him off too much and you get ‘Lightning Lord’, his alter ego. You can say that ‘LL’ is his defense mechanism whenever things get too tough for Ginji to comprehend and deal with. LL is completely different, down to the point where they even give off different ki. LL is a pure fighting machine, down to the point of his opponents say he fights by instinct and not by his conscious mind and can use the full measure of the power granted him through lighting, down to manipulating plasma to make dummies of himself in mid battle without his opponents perceiving that he had such knowledge to begin with (which he doesn’t, he just fights by instinct – kinda like how Battle Angel Alita can fight so well using plasma and knowing all its little tricks but sit her down in front of a book and she’s a blank).

I say that because Awakend Pris gives me the same vibe as LL does. Awakened Pris came out when Claymore Pris tried to comprehend herself Awakening and she couldn’t. So Awakend Pris put the blame of Awakening on Teresa in a way that would justify Priscilla Awakening to begin with. Now that she could feel Teresa’s youki again, she now has an outlet to vent Claymore Pris’s frustration through. Awakened Pris operates on her own level that’s ‘above the law’ if you will. She’s not bound to the same rules as Claymore Pris perceives that she is.

You make some intillegent and good arguments...that aside....you totally spoiled Getbackers for me :P

[DazarGaidin]

Originally Posted by mercury lampe

Spoiler for size:

Simple...

When Priscila become a claymore, she felt that she was in the right side, fighting por justice and human's sake.

Then, she was sending by te Org to defeat the traitor Teresa, whose evilness was showed when she killed some humans and challenge Org's authority.

Obviously, this is completely unforgivable from Priscila's point of view, and always believing that she represented the justice, Priscila proceeded to kill Teresa.

Until here, all is nice and Priscila's little word and beliefs kept save and untouched. But, unfortunately for her, the former rang #2 coulden't defeat Teresa, and you know, this is new: the strong paladin of justice Priscila were losing in front of teresa's evilness.

At this point, Priscila remembered something that she wanted to forget the most: the fear and the powerless she experimented when a yoma who looked exactly like her father was eating her family.

Little Priscila knew that this was unfair; she was innocent and neither her nor her relatives don't deserve such a punishment. Then, using the fear as a link, the mind of Priscila could connect both unjustices: that one of the yoma eating her beloveds, and this one where she (the justice) coulden't do anything against Teresa (the evilness)

This is how (i think) Priscila identified that yoma with Teresa.

Hope i've helped a little.

Awesome, i see the connection there, its being powerless even though you are just. Hmm no wonder she identifies with raki...

[cors8]

It is rather funny that they decided to meet in a volcano though, instead of somewhere in Pieta.

It's like Priscilla declares "I'm going to finish you off once and for all, but only if you meet me in this volcano over here!"

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by NezoR

What I would like to know is why they are "forcing" an ending? Why cant Claymore end on a cliffhanger and continue with OVAs, Madhouse doing a second season years later or a different company doing a second season years later... like Full Metal Panic (Gonzo) --> Full Metal Panic TSR (KyoAni). Or is it that Claymore is not popular enough to warrant a second season?

Problems

1. Money
2. Money
3. Did I mentioned money?

Animes are not cheap venture. Madhouse probably felt that Claymore is not popular enough so they decided to give a closure. Plus Claymore is not exactly a mainstream anime, so their interest in making more episodes other than stipulated 26 episode is minimal. As someone posted in other thread, DVD sales for Claymore is not doubt decent but far cry from sales volume perspective for example, Gundam Seed Destiny. 5000- 6000 sales versus 30,000 - 60,000 we talking here. And many people would disagree but Claymore is not exactly Japanese, no schoolgirls with those ridiculous skirts like Haruhi or moe sidekick animals running around like the creature in XXXholic or Tsubasa Chronicles. Hell I suspected Flora was given cutesy voice to rope in Japanese audience.

FMP is popular because it has school setting. If it is pure military anime, it would not do so well.

The most we can hope for is like Hellsing OVA which retell the story after GONZO did such an awful job in earlier work. But that will need money.

Any super rich Claymore fans here? Perhaps you can approach someone in Japan and ask them to do OVA which will make manga purists happy? Or even better, get Hollywood to do it?

As for me, I am quite happy with the anime and already ordering the Japanese DVD for eternal collection.

[Guido]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Problems

1. Money
2. Money
3. Did I mentioned money?

Animes are not cheap venture. Madhouse probably felt that Claymore is not popular enough so they decided to give a closure. Plus Claymore is not exactly a mainstream anime, so their interest in making more episodes other than stipulated 26 episode is minimal. As someone posted in other thread, DVD sales for Claymore is not doubt decent but far cry from sales volume perspective for example, Gundam Seed Destiny. 5000- 6000 sales versus 30,000 - 60,000 we talking here. And many people would disagree but Claymore is not exactly Japanese, no schoolgirls with those ridiculous skirts like Haruhi or moe sidekick animals running around like the creature in XXXholic or Tsubasa Chronicles. Hell I suspected Flora was given cutesy voice to rope in Japanese audience.

FMP is popular because it has school setting. If it is pure military anime, it would not do so well.

The most we can hope for is like Hellsing OVA which retell the story after GONZO did such an awful job in earlier work. But that will need money.

Any super rich Claymore fans here? Perhaps you can approach someone in Japan and ask them to do OVA which will make manga purists happy? Or even better, get Hollywood to do it?

As for me, I am quite happy with the anime and already ordering the Japanese DVD for eternal collection.

I would paraphrase the words that one person posted at another anime thread that many of us remembered and loved so much.

Claymore is another example like Elfen Lied of a rare toy that not everyone can afford to buy.

Claymore for being shounen-anime it offered something fresh to the genre.

Although why few or so little people barely ever complained about the Elfen Lied anime deviating from the manga (and offering us that sensational of a cliffhanger, opened-ending) on the last two episodes, the mainstream fandom for Claymore is fearing for their dear lives about the deviation the anime has strayed from the manga for episodes 21-26, hoping that Madhouse would be able to pull through some way or another.

[Mentar]

I very stongly doubt that the decision to force an original ending was made in the middle of the show, or even in response to popularity or fan reception (in the worldwide community, Claymore has been a spectacular success - by pure download numbers, it reached SHNY-regions). Looking back, they started adjusting the story very early.

Example: Remember the Slashers arc, where Miria suddenly failed to mention that she "found out about the Organization's biggest secret" (manga)? Back then I thought it was just more in-character for her to keep quiet, but when this secret didn't get any mention at the conclusion of the Riful arc either, I was beginning to get suspicious. And by now we know that this missing "secret" was simply removed from the show, and along with it, all references to it from earlier chapters. This proves that at least when these chapters were created, this decision was already made final.

Actually I'm convinced they knew how they were going to end the show even before they started animating the first episode. This was planned and carefully executed right from the beginning.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Perhaps someone in Madhouse convinced that open ending is worst kind of ending so they decided to give a closure. Here I felt that they are too faithful to manga for 19 episodes so when they decided to change the last arc, things beginning to look a bit iffy for example as I pointed out, Raki unrealistic character development in terms of speed, Isley/Easley seemingly primitive lust for destruction all of sudden after so many years of holding back in the North, the larger picture concerning the Organization intent is never fully explored and more.

But this is just personal pet peeves. Feel free to disagree.

My opinion is, Claymore is kinda of story that needs a length like Legend of Galactic Heroes to be justified. Since the story have so many interesting characters running around with looming power play between the superpowers like the Organization and 3 ABs, 26 episodes is just skimming the surface.

[BaalChaamon]

on a different note...i like the way Rigardo's remnants are blow away by Claire's Yoki outburst..its like clearing the trash out

[^Sakon]

10/10 from me, and yup read the manga too, up to w/e was out last month xD. I personally love the way madhouse is taking the anime. Well...everything else I wanted to post has been so..yup thats all from me hehe.

WTB time machine to next Wednesday..plz...i wanna...so bad...MUST HAVE CLAYMORE!

[Evangel]

Sorry, this episode was rubbish. It was all just filler. I just really hate sitting down for 20 minutes waiting for something to happen.

As for my opinions of the ending, I really don't care at this point if they close it off at one season or not, there is still the manga. If they have the funds and the incentive to make another season they will find a way to make it.

[jor8888]

6/10 so the last 2 episodes we had raki cutting into fighting scences like he is the sh1t and now he cries like a little baby huh, what a bunch of tards
at MH.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by edf91

The main problem I see with this "conclusion" is:

Spoiler:

There is no way in hell can Clare beat Priscilla, at least in the way the story was supposed to be going. Priscilla is so powerful that even all three Being of the Abyss or whatever you want to call them CANNOT defeat Priscilla one on one. Riful mentioned that the only way to beat her is by ganging up on her with two abyssal being. Unless Madhouse decide to make Clare 100% awaken and somehow her Youki can get close to or higher than Priscilla, there is absolutely no way for Clare to win. By staging this fight, they are basically throwing the Claymore storyline sideway in the sense that it is not even different interpretation of the storyline - it is a completely new storyline. Not only that, they completely skip over a lot of other interesting storyline, as with the way things are going, it is going to difficult to steer the story back closer to the manga storyline.

I don't see this problem you mention here.

Teresa was the strongest #1 Claymore of all time, she effortlessly defeated Priscilla 1on1 by only releasing 10% of her power, while Priscilla went ~80%. She probably could've defeated an Awakened Priscilla by only releasing maybe 10-20% of her power.

Clare is releasing 80% or more of her yoki, and my guess is the more she releases and the more yoma she becomes the stronger Teresa's "powers" grow inside, which should explain why Priscilla mistakes Clare for Teresa.

The fact is, even by manga standards, nobody really knows Clare's true potential, she's a wild card, so someone saying she can't defeat Priscilla means absolutely nothing.

[Justice Knight]

i hope the last 2 ep was raki going to the volcano and falls down into the pit

[jor8888]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Problems

1. Money
2. Money
3. Did I mentioned money?

.

damn they need more money for this pissed poor animation they are making? They barely even use any color since everything is blue and black, and they cut frame rate to 1/2 lol.

[Pandalax]

The flashbacks were done really well. The way they combined Priscilla's voice with the pictures created quite a nice effect.

You can't really blame Madhouse if you think the graphics looked kind of dull. The whole setting is at a place like the Arctic and the colours that they can actually use are limited to a very small spectrum.

I didn't really like how they choose the volcano to be the fight scene. It just seems too traditional. I guess they wanted to choose a special place for this fight to occur and once again, there's not much they can do since they are up North.

Sorry, this episode was rubbish. It was all just filler. I just really hate sitting down for 20 minutes waiting for something to happen.

You really need to learn what the word filler means.