[MANGA] Chapter 297 Discussion

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

qft! really, a lot of people should rewatch/reread that fight

i have and i'm not entirly seeing where you are all coming from exactly...
Yes, Kenpachi gave ichigo a lot of handicap but ichigo didn't do that much significant damage; atleast by Kenpachi's standards (high tolerance for pain)... In the early fight, Kenpachi receive little to no actual damage, thus he was still at full strength when Ichigo got his power up...

it's true that, even after ichigo got powered up, Kenpachi made no attempt to dodge or parry the attacks, but from what we've seen of kenpachi, that's just HOW he fights... Kenpachi wasn't giving Ichigo a handicap by taking all those attacks it's just how he fights. Kenpachi's style of fighting is to never back down; by taking the damage, he actually creates openings in his opponents defences. Most opponents expect a fighter to back step when they take a hit and thus are never prepared for when the fighter continues to push foward; really, what he looses in defence he gains in offence... if he were to dodge and parry attacks he would loose many chances to get in a good clean hit. Another thing we have to recall is that fact that Kenpachi was actually crying over wanting to become stronger, which is him practically admiting he could not beat Ichigo there.

really, it seems to me that the only way Kenpachi should be able to fight noitora is if he uses Bankai... and even then it still feels a bit farfetch since Ichigo needs to use Bankai + vizard to even hope of fighting Noitora... Bankai alone for Kenpachi doesn't sound like it would be enough.

y'know, looking back at those episode reminded me of why i want to see Yachiru figt... the little girl is scary when she gets made.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Thought:If the big espada fights here against whoever is going to rescue Rukia, then I assume he is no.7 , which would make Halibel, old guy, and Stark the top three espada (not necessarily in that order).

y'know i kind of feel the same way, however, considering Noitoria's past hang ups about Nell (a woman) being more powerful than himself, i would think that Halibel is weaker then him since he would have a similar relationship with her as he had with Nell... him always wanting to fight her and prove he is stronger since he can't stand being weaker than a woman.

Originally Posted by maqi

I never was really clear on exactly what Aizen wants from her. Can you help me out on that?

Y'know i don't think it was ever clarified... it could just be the fact that she is powerful and thus he wants to make sure she belongs to him and not SS; it's uncertain if he actually devised a plan as to how to actually use her. this does help lead to the belief that Orihime will not be rescued; the fact that we don't even know what Aizen wanted to do with her... and that's not the only thing... another thing that has gone unresolved is Orihime's plan to use her power to destory the hogkyou... until she atleast makes one attempt at doing it, success or fail, that will go unresolved.

Grant it, it does make the arc seem rather pointless, as all it did was kill off a few espada and really didn't do THAT much to push the plot foward... if this was a short arc i would be much more forgiving of such things, however, thanks to how god damn long these fights have been going on, i expect some kind of strong plot progression to actually result from all this.

[MAQI]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Y'know i don't think it was ever clarified... it could just be the fact that she is powerful and thus he wants to make sure she belongs to him and not SS; it's uncertain if he actually devised a plan as to how to actually use her. this does help lead to the belief that Orihime will not be rescued; the fact that we don't even know what Aizen wanted to do with her... and that's not the only thing... another thing that has gone unresolved is Orihime's plan to use her power to destory the hogkyou... until she atleast makes one attempt at doing it, success or fail, that will go unresolved.

Grant it, it does make the arc seem rather pointless, as all it did was kill off a few espada and really didn't do THAT much to push the plot foward... if this was a short arc i would be much more forgiving of such things, however, thanks to how god damn long these fights have been going on, i expect some kind of strong plot progression to actually result from all this.

Yeah I hope KT has some good stuff in mind.

I think Aizen probably thought Orihime might try someting like she was thinking of trying, or that Urahara would, so maybe he just wants her near him so she will not be used against him. But then wouldn't he just kill her? I don't know If he is planning on useing her for healing I could see that, or something to do with the king's key... Anyway I just hope there will be some ownage of espada in the next few chapters!!!

[workingclass]

personally im seeing it like alot of others are. im predicting shunsui will be there for chad. byakuya or ukitaki for rukia. and im sure just out of spite hitsuguya will be there for renji and company. i can only hope though shunsui and ukitaki make an entrance into the series. they are both really cool characters that havent been explored enough as is.

and one other thing that bothers me is everyone whos talking about noi and kenpachi there. seriously they both look like heavy swinging swordsman types that prey on fighting. the difference is noi likes to beat up people who are already down and out. its not like ichigo prolly couldn't beat him, its just he burned everything he had in him to beat grimmjow. and grimmjow himself already had a hold on ichigo himself. ichigo was beaten and riddled by him. kinda like how he views kenpachi. im willing to bet even after his vizardization he still holds fear against kenpachi. noitora he never really got to fight on fair terms so you cant really call it a fight at all. and already nell beat the crap out of noi before he could even do anything to her.

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by maqi

Yeah I hope KT has some good stuff in mind.

best thing _ever_

after all the fighting is done, and everybody went home.. *PLOP* Ulquiorra comes back and is like WTF?

[devilfire]

Originally Posted by workingclass

personally im seeing it like alot of others are. im predicting shunsui will be there for chad. byakuya or ukitaki for rukia. and im sure just out of spite hitsuguya will be there for renji and company. i can only hope though shunsui and ukitaki make an entrance into the series. they are both really cool characters that havent been explored enough as is.

and one other thing that bothers me is everyone whos talking about noi and kenpachi there. seriously they both look like heavy swinging swordsman types that prey on fighting. the difference is noi likes to beat up people who are already down and out. its not like ichigo prolly couldn't beat him, its just he burned everything he had in him to beat grimmjow. and grimmjow himself already had a hold on ichigo himself. ichigo was beaten and riddled by him. kinda like how he views kenpachi. im willing to bet even after his vizardization he still holds fear against kenpachi. noitora he never really got to fight on fair terms so you cant really call it a fight at all. and already nell beat the crap out of noi before he could even do anything to her.

right you are, that was also the thing I was thinking that could happen.

[MAQI]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

best thing _ever_

after all the fighting is done, and everybody went home.. *PLOP* Ulquiorra comes back and is like WTF?

[cheese no koma]

aizen turning kenpachi into an espada, lol, i'd like to see that. With his strong personality, i'm can't imagine him losing easily to his hollow side, so a vizard kenpachi is ok too

[eyoy]

oh cmon people have you been reading??!!!remember what Inoue's power is?it is so obvious the aizen wants inoue to regain the original unbroken form of the hogyuoko!!!!inoue's power is something like going back thru time remember?i forgot what its called..aizen wants inoue to restore the hogyouko just as she restored grimmjow's arm!!! zzzzzzz

[MAQI]

Originally Posted by eyoy

oh cmon people have you been reading??!!!remember what Inoue's power is?it is so obvious the aizen wants inoue to regain the original unbroken form of the hogyuoko!!!!inoue's power is something like going back thru time remember?i forgot what its called..aizen wants inoue to restore the hogyouko just as she restored grimmjow's arm!!! zzzzzzz

I believe its called "Event Rejection" but if he wanted her for just that, then why would he not have her do it right after that little demonstration wit GJ's arm?

[eyoy]

Originally Posted by maqi

I believe its called "Event Rejection" but if he wanted her for just that, then why would he not have her do it right after that little demonstration wit GJ's arm?

event rejection yes thanx..
the hogyouko probably "withers" after each use so she needs inoue's powers again..but if there is something which he needs more than inoue's event rejection powers then it hasnt been said yet..

[Slighted]

Finally the plot is moving and may these battles be finally over!

I was shocked to find out it was Kenpachi that arrived as the deus ex machina, though.

Waiting to see who else is going to show up...

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by Slighted

Waiting to see who else is going to show up...

yes i'm curious about it theres a good chance for komamura to show up, i think he would go against yamas orders just to get the chance to face tousen

i will pray every day so that we will see tousens scared face in the next chapter i bet he is right now hiding under his bed at las noches *omg is that zarakis reiatsu?*

[Barandax]

I went over the Ichigo vs Kenpachi fight and heres a few things as to why Kenpachi could easily be up there in power.

1. When Ichigo first started the fight he could not hurt Kepachi at all, he gave him a free shot and Ichigo ended up damaging his hands a bit even after powering up. As the fight went on Ichigo focused his "natural" reistsu and was able to give Kenpachi a shallow cut across the chest. Ichigo then became a bit overconfident after learning Kenpachi did not know his zanpakutō name and Kenpachi stabbed straight through Zangetsu, breaking it in half and mortally wounding Ichigo.

2. Ichigo then has a heart to heart with Zangetsu/Hollow side and learns that just knowing his zanpakutō's name is not enough to fully draw upon its power. His hollow side tells him just knowing a persons name does not instantly make them friends, he must learn more about Zangetsu, only then will they be able to truly fight as one. After this goes on in Ichigos soul he powers up greatly, easily being able to cut Kenpachi, where he could not before, and surpassing him in power.

3. Kenpachi takes off his eyepatch limiter and goes to his full power, Zangetsu comments to Ichigo about the screaming of Kepachis sword and how he cannot hear it. He further comments that when two beings fight together that do not trust one another they only damage their powers and weaken each other. Ichigo fully trusts Zangetsu, gives him all he has and his power level shoots up again to match Kenpachis power and they then have the final clash where they end up pretty much killing each other.


After going over this fight I've concluded a few things. Kenpachi is very powerful on his own, his natural power would be even higher but his own inability to fight with his zanpakutō limits his natural power and makes him weaker than he actually is. The same goes for his sword, not only does he not know of its special abilities, but Kenpachi also reduces his swords power. Remember Zangetsu comments that they both limit/damage each other currently. If Kenpachi can learn of his zanpakutō's name, he will attain his full natural power, as he and his sword will no longer be in conflict.

Ichigo could not match him in power at first, after working together with Zangetsu he strength increased to a point that rivaled Kenpachis limited natural strength. Just imagine what kind of a power boost Kenpachi will gain if he can do what Ichigo did, and that is not even knowing his bankai yet.

[ellifeedn]

Originally Posted by maqi

Yeah I hope KT has some good stuff in mind.

I think Aizen probably thought Orihime might try someting like she was thinking of trying, or that Urahara would, so maybe he just wants her near him so she will not be used against him. But then wouldn't he just kill her? I don't know If he is planning on useing her for healing I could see that, or something to do with the king's key... Anyway I just hope there will be some ownage of espada in the next few chapters!!!

You reminded me of a theory I had. It is speculated (by the Shinigami) that Aizen wants to make another key and kill the king. I think that it will not work because, in a twist (no pun intended), the key is already in the door, just that it's jammed in there with the top part broken off, preventing entry with another key.

[cheese no koma]

with all the current kenpachi's hype, i think most of us forgot about the cute little midget with pink hair already.

[MAQI]

Originally Posted by ellifeedn

You reminded me of a theory I had. It is speculated (by the Shinigami) that Aizen wants to make another key and kill the king. I think that it will not work because, in a twist (no pun intended), the key is already in the door, just that it's jammed in there with the top part broken off, preventing entry with another key.

How did you come up with that if you don't mind me asking? I mean if the door is locked and the key broken off in the lock, how can anyone get out? I mean there has to be some people that travel back and forth,the royal gaurd maybe? Also I am sure they need food and stuff... I don't know it could be like you said but, maybe if the key was in bits and spread out or something and aizen wants to find it and have orihime put it back together than that would make more sense, but that was never mentioned.

[MC Zandogg]

OMFG I CANT wait for next week Zaraki bankai anyone??? either his bankai or hell be fighting in unison with his zanpaktou......either way.........NOITORA IS GONNA GET PWNED

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by cheese no koma

with all the current kenpachi's hype, i think most of us forgot about the cute little midget with pink hair already.

actually she was the first thing i thought of when Ken-chwan showed up.I thought finally we might get to see her in action. but really gotta wonder who else is tagging along for the ride(hopefully there is more cappies) can't wait!

[Placid_Thunder_Cloud]

yeah... Yachiru pawnage!!! XD

seriously... she's even the Shinigami Women's Association president... (though I don't think it's really relevant)

lolz...

I was wondering, what if Yachiru is stronger than ken-chan? lol
that's a crazy twist...

and yeah, I agree with ken-chan's strength being waaaaayyy great if he can fight in harmony with his zanpakuto...

[Zek]

Hopefully Yachiru will take care of what's-his-face while Kenpachi fights Noitora.

As for how Kenpachi can compete with Espada #5, I don't think we've yet seen the highest power a regular shinigami can obtain. Byakuya was probably #4 among the captains, below Yamamoto, Ukitake and Kyouraku. He was roughly equal to non-vaizard Ichigo. It's definitely possible that at least the elder shinigami can match a high ranking arrancar in power. Considering just how much strength a shinigami gains by using his sword's full power (see Ichigo beating Kenpachi), Kenpachi should skyrocket to the upper ranks by gaining shikai. I have a hard time believing that Kubo will make him the strongest shinigami in SS though, so either he won't get bankai or it won't meet our expectations.