Full Metal Panic Novel Discussion

[Teh2ndrunner]

Sweet , looks like their back on track with translating !

All this talk of the Laevatein makes me wanna read CMMD fully. Its been said many times before ... 'I wish I could read Japanese'.

The Laevatein's power , although seeming to be overpowered is prolly the equivalent of Leonard's Varial we see in the last part of COHO. It loses some basic functions of an M9 for overwhelming power. I'm sure Leonard's AS is enough to give a decent fight to Sousuke . Although Sagara is definitely the better fighter .

A hunch I've been having for a while is that although Amalgam is going down , I reckon Leonard's gna live ... dispite how annoying that fact is. It's most likely gna be revealed that it's not his fault he joined Amalgam etc ... scared childhood etc.

If Leonard does die ... (he's obvs gna get defeated in either a shootout or Mech fight with Sagara) it's most likely he'll be betrayed by Amalgam or shot by Tessa ( last one less likely but more fitting).

Aside from all that , I can guess an ending for FMP. I reckon it's still possible for all the teenage cast ( Tessa , Sousuke , Chidori and even Leonard!!) to go to gendai high after the end. Think about it ... Mithril's gone , Amalgam might be destroyed by the remenants of Mithril ( Pacific fleet) so there's no where else to go. Unless some of those mentioned die in the last book. Tessa could rebuild Mithril etc ... even with Leonard's help. But I think It's highly unlikely Gatoh will kill any of the main chars at the last min. I don't think this novel is turing for a sad ending ...

Well there's my thoughts on the book.

[Missilebuster]

lol why would you go to camp

[UltimateKane99]

Originally Posted by Teh2ndrunner

The Laevatein's power , although seeming to be overpowered is prolly the equivalent of Leonard's Varial we see in the last part of COHO. It loses some basic functions of an M9 for overwhelming power. I'm sure Leonard's AS is enough to give a decent fight to Sousuke . Although Sagara is definitely the better fighter .

A hunch I've been having for a while is that although Amalgam is going down , I reckon Leonard's gna live ... dispite how annoying that fact is. It's most likely gna be revealed that it's not his fault he joined Amalgam etc ... scared childhood etc.

If Leonard does die ... (he's obvs gna get defeated in either a shootout or Mech fight with Sagara) it's most likely he'll be betrayed by Amalgam or shot by Tessa ( last one less likely but more fitting).

Aside from all that , I can guess an ending for FMP. I reckon it's still possible for all the teenage cast ( Tessa , Sousuke , Chidori and even Leonard!!) to go to gendai high after the end. Think about it ... Mithril's gone , Amalgam might be destroyed by the remenants of Mithril ( Pacific fleet) so there's no where else to go. Unless some of those mentioned die in the last book. Tessa could rebuild Mithril etc ... even with Leonard's help. But I think It's highly unlikely Gatoh will kill any of the main chars at the last min. I don't think this novel is turing for a sad ending ...

Well there's my thoughts on the book.

Well, as for the Laevatein's power, we know nearly nothing about the Belial (which I believe is the proper name for Leonard's mech (saw it on a MOSTLY official site). I don't know for sure, though, since I've heard Belial, Varial, Verial, and a couple other renditions.). For all we know, the only reason the Arbalest lost was that Leonard had "complete control over the omnisphere" while Sousuke doesn't know how to use the power whenever he wants. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. That may have been the cause of Sousuke's defeat...

As to whether or not Amalgam is going down, I would say that falls under the "FMP=/=Gundam" section. One mech or small task force taking down a far more powerful, better armed, and more dangerous opponent seems a might doubtful. I could see Sousuke taking down a couple of leaders, but remember, his main goal is to rescue Chidori. I doubt he will stay longer than necessary once he has rescued Chidori.

I think Leonard will live, too. It's probably got a LOT to do with his past. It's hard to believe that his parents would abandon him so easily... Poor kid. I wonder if Tessa would have joined Mithril is she had known what her parents did to her brother...

I think Leonard will be betrayed by Amalgam, too. He does seem like he's a little too nice for such a bloodthirsty organization...

As to your last point, though, I SEVERELY doubt that. As I said earlier, that's a Gundam-style ending. My bet would be that Chidori never returns to school. She will have gone through too much to return to that place. My bet would be that she would join the remnants of Mithril, maybe as a research scientist, and actively work with Sousuke. While that may seem like another Tessa, Chidori would be in the research branch, while Tessa and Sousuke would be in the operations branch. I can't see Chidori resuming her life, and Sousuke would be hard-pressed to get into Tokyo with any form of weapons and a 24-hour security contingent. :P Tessa would probably resign her command if the rest of Mithril didn't survive, maybe defect to the Japanese or USA forces. I could see something like that occurring. Mithril doesn't have enough forces anymore to take the fight to a heavily reinforced enemy. The max it can do is guerilla tactics, hoping to make a big dent.

I do doubt that Gatoh will kill off any of the main characters.

Originally Posted by Missilebuster

lol why would you go to camp

I hope I'm right in assuming that's directed at Ravyn, but I can't tell. Maybe re-post that in a relevant discussion area...

Oh, and Ravyn did answer that in her LJ. Check it out.

[HunterSeeker]

Originally Posted by UltimateKane99

Well, for the maximum operating time, I doubt that it would be maximum operating time if it didn't take the LDS into account. It's probably maximum operating time at full combat potential. At least, if I was writing this story, that's what it would be. I don't know how Gatoh is doing it.

As for the other stuff, you are definitely right. Those were just grunts in a practice-style setting for the first combat that the Laevatein fought against. It's still pretty impressive, though. He took down 3 Behemoth-i, which are supposed to be FAR more mobile (and probably better armored) than the original ones, and 3 Codarl-m, which is also ridiculous (though the Arbalest boasted a similar record with 5 Codarl-m units in under 5 minutes), in under 5 minutes. The Laevatein doesn't seem like it'll go down very easily, even if fighting Fowler, Leonard, or Mr. Gold...

Not to sound overly optimistic, but I would be stunned if there was even a chance of that happening. The software that Mithril used was top-of-the-line, which means the coding for the electronic warfare suite of the M6 was probably also darn good. I don't know for sure though. Might make for an interesting plot twist...

Finally, wouldn't it be ridiculously difficult to catch a pilot unaware? I mean, for a normal AS pilot, yeah, I could understand, but for a pilot of Sousuke's caliber? I couldn't see that happening easily. It's still possible, though. LDS doesn't mean win, as you said, and a surprise attack that actually gets Sousuke could be VERY bad.

If the operation time is disregarding the use of LDS, then Laevatein's operation time will nowhere as low as 30 hours while Arbalest still has 100. Let's assume Laevatein got 200% better than Arbalest AND it now indeed has a better reactor (if I remembered right, its output is at least 150% of that from Arbalest), but the operation time is just 30% of the former?

Of course, but Sousuke's skills he won't go down easily with Laevatein, but then it won't be easy matches when facing the bosses from Amalgam, who're also controlling the LDS well or even better.

And then please explain why Laevatein's appliances cease to work after the combat.:P

As for duing team combat, ambush is certainly possible. It may be uncommon to catch the Uruz team off-guard, but afterall you can hit/aware of enemies you can't see. Sousuke's M6 also got car-bombed in MMD just because he was caught off-guard, thus the same applies to ECS units------especially now Fowler's team also got some cooperation instead of fighting alone.

[FrostWolf]

i guess i was wrong before the with the Arbalest and the Laevatein. Whilst the Laevatein is suited for combat (mobile army) the Arbalest is suited to infiltration and hit and run tactics, to get both into a fight is ridiculous as the Laevatein would own simply becuase it has a more advanced weapons outpout and Lambda Driver

[Teh2ndrunner]

Originally Posted by UltimateKane99

Well, as for the Laevatein's power, we know nearly nothing about the Belial (which I believe is the proper name for Leonard's mech (saw it on a MOSTLY official site). I don't know for sure, though, since I've heard Belial, Varial, Verial, and a couple other renditions.). For all we know, the only reason the Arbalest lost was that Leonard had "complete control over the omnisphere" while Sousuke doesn't know how to use the power whenever he wants. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. That may have been the cause of Sousuke's defeat...

As to whether or not Amalgam is going down, I would say that falls under the "FMP=/=Gundam" section. One mech or small task force taking down a far more powerful, better armed, and more dangerous opponent seems a might doubtful. I could see Sousuke taking down a couple of leaders, but remember, his main goal is to rescue Chidori. I doubt he will stay longer than necessary once he has rescued Chidori.

I think Leonard will live, too. It's probably got a LOT to do with his past. It's hard to believe that his parents would abandon him so easily... Poor kid. I wonder if Tessa would have joined Mithril is she had known what her parents did to her brother...

I think Leonard will be betrayed by Amalgam, too. He does seem like he's a little too nice for such a bloodthirsty organization...

As to your last point, though, I SEVERELY doubt that. As I said earlier, that's a Gundam-style ending. My bet would be that Chidori never returns to school. She will have gone through too much to return to that place. My bet would be that she would join the remnants of Mithril, maybe as a research scientist, and actively work with Sousuke. While that may seem like another Tessa, Chidori would be in the research branch, while Tessa and Sousuke would be in the operations branch. I can't see Chidori resuming her life, and Sousuke would be hard-pressed to get into Tokyo with any form of weapons and a 24-hour security contingent. :P Tessa would probably resign her command if the rest of Mithril didn't survive, maybe defect to the Japanese or USA forces. I could see something like that occurring. Mithril doesn't have enough forces anymore to take the fight to a heavily reinforced enemy. The max it can do is guerilla tactics, hoping to make a big dent.

I do doubt that Gatoh will kill off any of the main characters.

Ok , firstly I'm sure the reason Sagara lost is cause his mech was beaten up b4 the fight began. In the book it shows the comparisons of the two ASes at the start of the fight. Also , Sousuke also has a high amount of control of the L driver , it's not as random as you say. After TSR he almost has full control and can use it whenever he wants ... Leonard's AS has more powerful attacks and is faster than the Arbalest , check wht AI says at the start of the fight again.

I agree with all Leonard's stuff but then again I hate the guy so I personally hope he goes down in a fight with someone quite badly. Perhaps some kind of brain damage from

Spoiler for CMMD plot:

Chidori shooting him . The impact may have destoryed his whispered powers or something - it's guessing on my part obvs, know its prolly too extreme.

About Leonard's parents

Spoiler for CMMD:

it was said it was only his mother who betrayed him. Do we know anything about the father concerning his relationship with L . T ? Anyhow , tessa wouldn't have betrayed Mithril , she would have prolly gotten ova it.

Ok , inno the ending I predicted seems unrealistic at first ... nigh impossible , if ya think about it , its not too far fetched. You say it's a very Gundam ending .. well I'm not a Gundam fan but I do know that Gatoh is and therefore is likely to be influenced by the series ( other evidence of him leaning towards other mech series - just look at the spoilers posted about CMMD).

[HunterSeeker]

Originally Posted by Teh2ndrunner

Ok , firstly I'm sure the reason Sagara lost is cause his mech was beaten up b4 the fight began. In the book it shows the comparisons of the two ASes at the start of the fight. Also , Sousuke also has a high amount of control of the L driver , it's not as random as you say. After TSR he almost has full control and can use it whenever he wants ... Leonard's AS has more powerful attacks and is faster than the Arbalest , check wht AI says at the start of the fight again.

I agree with all Leonard's stuff but then again I hate the guy so I personally hope he goes down in a fight with someone quite badly. Perhaps some kind of brain damage from

Spoiler for CMMD plot:

Chidori shooting him . The impact may have destoryed his whispered powers or something - it's guessing on my part obvs, know its prolly too extreme.

About Leonard's parents

Spoiler for CMMD:

it was said it was only his mother who betrayed him. Do we know anything about the father concerning his relationship with L . T ? Anyhow , tessa wouldn't have betrayed Mithril , she would have prolly gotten ova it.

Ok , inno the ending I predicted seems unrealistic at first ... nigh impossible , if ya think about it , its not too far fetched. You say it's a very Gundam ending .. well I'm not a Gundam fan but I do know that Gatoh is and therefore is likely to be influenced by the series ( other evidence of him leaning towards other mech series - just look at the spoilers posted about CMMD).

In fact, during the fight in COMO Arbalest isn't even that damaged beyond having a proper fight. Leonard already commented that Arbalest is surprisingly good as a Test Type unit, and was in a decent condition even after the fight with 3 Codarl-m.
On the other hand, Sousuke may have better control over LDS than before, but then why it lost to Verial? Either because Leonard's full control of Omni-sphere and his more powerful Verial, or the willpower of Sousuke was already diminishing in that fight (Secured Chidori->Rescue Kyoko within a time limit->Fight off 3 Codarl-m, that's way too much stress for a LDS user). In other words, he doesn't really have full control over the LDS at will. Remember, Sousuke easily wins the fight in DBD because his willpower is at the top status after meeting Chidori (so his LDS will overpower pretty much stuff at that time), the Codarl-m pilots are just grunts, AND Gates is a way worse pilot than Gauron.

As for Carl, he's mostly out for work so Maria can sleep with someone else in the meantime. Persumably, when Leonard was handed over to Amalgam, Carl should had died already. I don't exactly remember this part though.

And just no one read my Plot Prediction pages before? Sigh.
It's already told that Amalgam wasn't going down simply by an epic battle (it can be immobilized, but that's too much to do for just a submarine of soldiers). And that's really little points for Sousuke and Chidori returning to Jindai since their classmates are pretty much gone from the school already.

[Theman]

Originally Posted by HunterSeeker

As for Carl, he's mostly out for work so Maria can sleep with someone else in the meantime. Persumably, when Leonard was handed over to Amalgam, Carl should had died already. I don't exactly remember this part though.

Spoiler:

I think the part about Tessa's mother committing adultery is the most shocking story twist... simply because I never saw that coming.

In the Birth of Tuatha de Dannan (Side Arm 2 short novel), Mardukas visited Tess's family when Tessa and Leonard were 5. Mardukas even commented that he was afraid to see this lovely family because of his own failure in marriage. He actually said, quote, "if Tessa could have carried a more peaceful life, she probably could become a woman like her mother."

Tessa's father was the captain of submarine Los Angeles Class SSN-700 "Dallas," so he was away from home most of the time... based on the description of Maria, she is a beautiful woman with the same platinum-color hair. I am sure she did not lack suiters.

As much as I hate Leonard, he could have become a much worse villain considering what he went through. Before the age of 8 (I think the kidnapping happened around age of 8 or 9), he was observing what his mother was doing when his father was away. The worst part of all was, unlike other kid, he understood what's happening.

Maria could tell her son was watching her. "He always looks at me with those eyes full of accusation. Always thought I am a whore. He and his frighteningly genius always look down on me. Always despises me."

....so when the kidnapper came and killed Carl, she did not even hesitate to push Leonard to the kidnappers after hiding Tessa. We don't know what Leonard went through after he was kidnapped, but I am sure he had to go through a lot to climb to his current position in the Amalgam.

The best thing about FMP series is the rich background of the characters. I strongly encourage everyone who could find Side Arm 1 and Side Arm 2 to read them, especially the story on Kurtz. You can find a description here

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26478

[UltimateKane99]

Originally Posted by Teh2ndrunner

Ok , firstly I'm sure the reason Sagara lost is cause his mech was beaten up b4 the fight began. In the book it shows the comparisons of the two ASes at the start of the fight. Also , Sousuke also has a high amount of control of the L driver , it's not as random as you say. After TSR he almost has full control and can use it whenever he wants ... Leonard's AS has more powerful attacks and is faster than the Arbalest , check wht AI says at the start of the fight again.

While I might agree with you on certain aspects, there is one thing that I didn't get. Everytime the Lambda Driver would activate, Sousuke would double-check it with Al, asking if the driver had activated, and then to record the time that it was active. This doesn't sound like something a person totally in control of a weapon would say. It seems almost as if the LDS is activated by chance, though Sousuke IS getting better at bringing the LDS online.

Originally Posted by Teh2ndrunner

well I'm not a Gundam fan but I do know that Gatoh is and therefore is likely to be influenced by the series ( other evidence of him leaning towards other mech series - just look at the spoilers posted about CMMD).

If this turns into a Gundam-style ending, where the super-mech pulls out of a battle of thousands of units while only having cosmetic damage, "beating up five bosses while sipping a soda"-style, I will be SORELY disappointed in Gatoh's storytelling. You can't beat a shadow group that has tons of mechs at its disposal with a mere handful of mechs, and no way to repair them if they are damaged. It would be ridiculous for that sort of ramshackle ending...

Originally Posted by HunterSeeker

In fact, during the fight in COMO Arbalest isn't even that damaged beyond having a proper fight. Leonard already commented that Arbalest is surprisingly good as a Test Type unit, and was in a decent condition even after the fight with 3 Codarl-m.
On the other hand, Sousuke may have better control over LDS than before, but then why it lost to Verial? Either because Leonard's full control of Omni-sphere and his more powerful Verial, or the willpower of Sousuke was already diminishing in that fight (Secured Chidori->Rescue Kyoko within a time limit->Fight off 3 Codarl-m, that's way too much stress for a LDS user). In other words, he doesn't really have full control over the LDS at will. Remember, Sousuke easily wins the fight in DBD because his willpower is at the top status after meeting Chidori (so his LDS will overpower pretty much stuff at that time), the Codarl-m pilots are just grunts, AND Gates is a way worse pilot than Gauron.

Originally Posted by HunterSeeker

And just no one read my Plot Prediction pages before? Sigh.
It's already told that Amalgam wasn't going down simply by an epic battle (it can be immobilized, but that's too much to do for just a submarine of soldiers). And that's really little points for Sousuke and Chidori returning to Jindai since their classmates are pretty much gone from the school already.

Do I really need to add anything that I don't already agree with? I wouldn't agree that Sousuke and Chidori don't have something to go back to Jindai high school for. Their classmates are still there, but they are just a little shell-shocked, what with everything thats happened to them. My biggest concern would be whether or not those two would be accepted back into the school without eternal prejudice... I couldn't see anyone in their class just accepting the fact that, "hey, our school was bombed to hell, we were all kidnapped and held hostage at least three times now, one of our fellow students was nearly killed by a shrapnel wound, and its all the fault of the student council vice-president, but it's all good, because she's back now, and so is her psychotic killer dog with explosives and guns hidden somewhere nearby or on his person, and probably an AS waiting somewhere nearby to slaughter us all if we look at our VP the wrong way." How would you take this, as a person who has lived in their shoes?

[TigerII]

I also think a handful of mechs will not win. But who is to say bigger weapons will not be used? Who is to say that the many countries of the world don't get tried of A and unite to destroy A. Who is to say that a nuclear weapon isn't used on the battlefield to even the odds.

There are several ways the 'good' guys can beat the 'bad' guys in this and make it go along with the story without pulling the OMG SUPER POWERFUL WTF HAXXORS Gundam tactic.

[UltimateKane99]

I kind of forgot about the governments. Unfortunately, that probably won't do much good. Remember that Mithril is a top-secret organization. The U.S. called the Tuatha De Danaan "The Toybox," because they had no clue what it was. Mithril isn't really well-known if even the U.S. doesn't know about a massive, multi-billion dollar sub. Also, the U.S. government doesn't even have Mithril-grade weapons, much less Amalgam grade, and for Mithril to reveal all it knew (including its prototype LDS) to any democratic government would be useless in the long-run, because Amalgam is virtually entirely underground. How would the U.S. find Amalgam in Soviet Russia? What about the Communist Bloc countries? There have been several hints that Amalgam has heavy ties to Communist countries (which means that giving that powerful tech to communist countries is out of the question), so it's doubtful that the governments could do anything other than shake their fingers angrily at the other side. To take action would result in nuclear war, and neither side wants that.

In the end, the dispute between Amalgam and Mithril is more business-like than political. There are two companies at odds with each other. The only difference is that both sides have extensive military networks and no qualms about using them. It's not business; it's a clash of militant vigilantes and terrorists. Neither side is affiliated with any particular government, though Mithril operates more openly in democratic areas while Amalgam operates more openly in Communist areas, so involving a government would be kind of pointless. Since there were no governments in the first place, there is no incentive to join the war (besides tech, but that would result in a catastrophic blow to the political power of the whole world, hence why that can't be offered).

[TigerII]

But the US does have one weapon it could use lol. I would like to see any mech survive a thermo-nuclear device...

[UltimateKane99]

Meh, that LDS can break down pretty much anything... I wouldn't be surprised if it could crush nukes before they hit. However, that still brings up the fact that if the U.S. sets of one nuke, then the U.S.S.R. launches its nukes. M.A.D. ensues, and every landmass in the world gets a nice, ghostly green glow for the next 85 years. The political ramifications for setting off a nuke is bad.

[TigerII]

Unless Amalgam did something to piss of the U.S.S.R. Then you would have a unification.

Again this is all hearsay. We have no idea what will happen. For all we know, aliens could come and help Souske, lol.

[UltimateKane99]

E.T.! Help Sousuke! Yeah, Whispered were actually the product of accidental radiation transmissions sent by aliens. The aliens are now coming to wipe away all traces of the radiation. Yay for wierdness!

And doesn't Amalgam kill those they piss off? I could see the U.S.S.R. falling because of Amalgam. It doesn't use small punches. Dear God, it's assault on Mithril was ridiculous... O_O

[TigerII]

Yeah sure but Mithril didn't have millions of troops, tens of thousands of aircraft, tens of thousands of armored vehicles, thousands of naval ships. And hundreds of nukes, lol.

I mean sure the MiG-29 or T-90 are crap, but at some point, you will be over whelmed.

And combine the U.S.S.R and U.S. and you have a formidable force. Even thugh those two are enemies, they would most likely ally each other t defeat a common foe.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[DePana]

yeah but you forgot something very important....
amalgam has many sympathizer in very high position in many countries..
so it will be very difficult for the different countries to get involved in this battel VS amalgam.
(ok. sorry for the poor english but here in germany they teach us only the basics -.-)

[TigerII]

I wuldn't call them sympathizers. Hard to sympathize with them. I would call those in the government straight up members. Well something has to happen. I mean if NOT is the last novel. Then somehow they either will be defeated, Souske and his side defeated, or the survivors of Souske's side stay on the run for the rest of their life.

[DePana]

no no...
last chapter of the end of day by day at the beginning of the discussion between gauron and sagara...
on the one hand its good to know that the story comes to an end.. but on the other... hmm..
want to read more..^^

Spoiler for odbd:

"Amalgam`. That`s the name of the organization that i was working for. [..]
There are a large number of Amalgan sympathizers who have penetrated into the hard-line factions of each nation. There are a lot of guys in the east and west who want cold war formation and munitions preservation."
(Shortcut of the text)

[TigerII]

Yes but what is meant by that is they are members who agree with Amalgan and got high positions to help them.


The sympathizers I meant would be people who were already in power who for some reason liked Amalgan.

We were thinking of two different groups.


Well either way, something ground breaking will have to happen in NOT.Most likely Souske and them are defeated or somehow manage to live but have o keep on the run.

Would be interesting of the worlds nations did actually stand up against Amalgan though. World War III. The world versus a crime organization, lol.