[Manga] Uchiha Madara

[parcelsus]

Actually, the chapter gives very clear evidence that Madara and his brother were not born of a Hyuuga. It clearly tells us that the sharingan was something that was already commonly in use within the clan at the time. Madara and his brother were simply the first two Uchihas to achieve the mangekyou sharingan. And so, this chapter in fact inequivocably disproves the Tengu king theory as yo are presenting it. (not familiar with the original Tengu king fanfic, sry) Anyway, I think the reason Itachi says that he is a shell is because he was unable to overtake the hidden leaf village, and I'm willing to bet that he's pretty well gone mad at this point as well.

[skurai]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

It's not hilarious. It makes sense.

If you think all Uchihas have black hair, you are wrong!

Reread the Itachi Gaiden.

As for the title, there is no real spoiler. It's just random name.

wat chapter is the itachi gaiden?? I cant seem to find it even in wiki.

Anyways i got a feeling tobi is madara.
Check out chapter 370, last 2 pages, there is a clue there. Besides that he was able to run away from deidara's explosion easily, appears without a scratch next and doesnt even flinch when he is up against multiple konoha shinobis at the moment, even jokes about it. He obviously has the sharingan and he says something about uchica madara. He wears a mask.

386 says that madara created the akatsuki and hide in its shadows. It could be obito though but i bet its tobi. And finally the anime itself doesnt even show kakashi gaiden right?? Obito doesnt seem all that important. Hmm or maybe it will be shown later.

Originally Posted by logiebear

so i've been reading up and stuff and from the last manga i have a theory to the story. so from what i'm reading in the discussion so far i have a feeling that people are missing a huge part of the manga. so tobi suddenly says "My power... Uchiha Madara's power... The sharingan's true power..." and people are basing a lot on that line. however if you put the previous lines tobi says and this line together:

(first tells pein that everyone must hurry and capture their own jinchuurikis)
pein: "I know."
tobi: "Soon... Soon all our goals will be achieved. and when they are, everything will be as it shud. My power... Uchiha Madara's power... The sharingan's true power..."
(tobi then shows his sharingan)

so if you read the line correctly, it means that when all their goals are achieved (which includes getting all the tailed-demons and something about a machine?) tobi's power... uchiha madara's power... the sharingan's true power will be as it shud. this means that uchiha madara's power is not as it shud be right now, meaning that it's probably really weak or gone or something like that. THIS THROWS IN THE POSSIBILITY THAT TOBI IS ACTUALLY UCHIHA MADARA AND THAT HE IS JUST REFERING TO HIMSELF IN THIRD PERSON WHEN HE SAYS "Uchiha Madara's power". HOWEVER!! tobi could also not be UM and just be another sharingan user (obito? shisui? some other random guy?) and he's trying to revive UM or something or UM is still alive but really weak.

so something interesting to note is that remember when sasuke saw into naruto and met face to face with kyuubi. well kyuubi saw the sharingan and said he recognized it from someone also a long time ago (uchiha madara?) so there's a possibility that kyuubi fought UM and either killed him or made him weak or something. so something to do with getting all the tailed-demons has something to do with reviving Uchiha Madara or even just his power.

next, so there's a possibility that itachi was crying after he heard that sasuke had died. i have a really interesting theory about this hinting to something to do with making sasuke stronger than itachi and possibility fighting Uchiha Madara? this theory has a lot of holes in it, but here it goes:

assuming itachi never killed uchiha shisui and that tobi is uchiha shisui, he may have had a plan to revive uchiha madara which he let itachi in on. and something with killing the whole clan to prove his trust to uchiha shisui (either that or itachi did it solely to make sasuke seek power to grow stronger). itachi does this to "train" sasuke to defeat uchiha madara eventually.

either that or tobi is uchiha madara himself and itachi is still training sasuke to fight/kill him.

that would explain the crying if itachi thought sasuke was dead, however that doesn't explain why itachi doesn't just kill uchiha madara right now already. maybe cuz of the other members of akatsuki being there. i dunno but it's all just a theory.

i do believe that uchiha madara will probably come back to power somehow, but something that bothers me is that it will mean the kyuubi will be extracted from naruto and naruto will die. (which we all know isn't possible cuz he's the main character =P)

so there you have it! my theory. actually right now i strongly believe that tobi is actually uchiha madara and just made to look like obito to mess with our minds. (either that or uchiha madara is doing the oro thing of transfering bodies and picked obito's body to form tobi =P)

questions anyone? comments? opinions?

I believe madara is tobi as well. See 370, last 2 pages. Also currently tobi isnt even flinching against 8 konoha shinobis and he is delaying them from going to sasuke who is with itachi.

Your first part of the theory is the same as mine
My power, uchica madara's power, true power is wat tobi says. And itachi says madara is a shadow of his former self currently, that sounds like tobi.
I dont see why obito would know madara.

Btw it the kyubbi didnt fought madara imo. Madara summoned the kyubi and controlled it like a pet to attack konoha. Itachi said so.

And yeah either its that or its madara in obito's body. Chances are tobi is madara.
In any case the writer isnt stupid and he made it this way so ppl will speculate if its obito or madara.

Btw anime doesnt even show the obito kakashi gaiden if i remember right.
Obito doesnt even seem relevant.
Chances are tobi is madara who is currently a shadow of his former self. I got a feeling he is gonna try use itachi to get even stronger somehow.

[Uchiwa_Madara]

Originally Posted by parcelsus

Actually, the chapter gives very clear evidence that Madara and his brother were not born of a Hyuuga. It clearly tells us that the sharingan was something that was already commonly in use within the clan at the time. Madara and his brother were simply the first two Uchihas to achieve the mangekyou sharingan. And so, this chapter in fact inequivocably disproves the Tengu king theory as yo are presenting it. (not familiar with the original Tengu king fanfic, sry) Anyway, I think the reason Itachi says that he is a shell is because he was unable to overtake the hidden leaf village, and I'm willing to bet that he's pretty well gone mad at this point as well.

it does not clearly state that they were in an already existing Uchiha clan. all it says it that all of the members of the clan gave them recognition. as i stated above, their father disguised himself as a traveler and had children with a Hyugga girl. what you're saying is possible, don't get me wrong, but also unlikely. they more than likely were raised in the Hyugga clan and were given recognition for, not only the first sharingan, but being extremely talented warriors at their young age. and if the theory about Madara and his sibling being the first two uchiha, that would prove Madara to have the first sharingan, as he is the older of the two.

[seiji_kun]

Man read between the lines. They were the first to obtain "mangekyou" sharingan, not sharingan... That was a feat that was prolly already done before them for generations. It took ages for a new pair (Itachi & Sasuke) and I don't want to even count how many generations they are between Madara and his brother & Itachi and Sasuke. Seeing he was a founding father it would've been quite a bit so how many generations would've passed before they eventually discovered mangekyou?

Originally Posted by Uchiwa_Madara

Alright, the new chapter completely proves the theory about the Tengu King. What do you think the demon thing in the background is??

Man stop writing bullshit cause it's obvious that they weren't raised in the Hyuga clan. Man that Tengu king theory is totally blown out of the window. How much did you score in comprehensive reading at school? 0/10 if you ask me... First of all the manga never says anything of Madaras parents so don't go writing it like facts.
And that demon in the back was a genjutsu of Itachi... The four eyes are representing how Uchihas brothers are spare eyes for each other if you ask me. But I can be wrong here.

For all we know the Byakugan clan were part of the Senju clan which is more likely then that they were part of the uchiha clan. This thread should just be locked cause it's just a load of crap anyway.

[Uchiwa_Madara]

well, i agree with you somewhat. yes, i know what i'm writing may not turn out to be completely true or true at all. all i'm saying is that i strongly support the theory that they are direct descendants from hyugga and tengu. about the demon in the background, we will have to see.
all we can do is wait.

[fenikkusu]

in the new manga when it mentions that madara and his bro awaken the mangekyou, it states "such a feat had never been acomplished by a memeber of the clan. that sounds like the clan had been well established at the time to make it sound like such an amazing feat. if they where the 1st of the uchiha i dont think it would be stated like that. also i dont see anywhere in the manga where it says that there father was an unknown traveler, or anywher about the hyuuga being envolved .

[parcelsus]

Originally Posted by skurai

wat chapter is the itachi gaiden?? I cant seem to find it even in wiki.

Anyways i got a feeling tobi is madara.
Check out chapter 370, last 2 pages, there is a clue there. Besides that he was able to run away from deidara's explosion easily, appears without a scratch next and doesnt even flinch when he is up against multiple konoha shinobis at the moment, even jokes about it. He obviously has the sharingan and he says something about uchica madara. He wears a mask.

386 says that madara created the akatsuki and hide in its shadows. It could be obito though but i bet its tobi. And finally the anime itself doesnt even show kakashi gaiden right?? Obito doesnt seem all that important. Hmm or maybe it will be shown later.



I believe madara is tobi as well. See 370, last 2 pages. Also currently tobi isnt even flinching against 8 konoha shinobis and he is delaying them from going to sasuke who is with itachi.

Your first part of the theory is the same as mine
My power, uchica madara's power, true power is wat tobi says. And itachi says madara is a shadow of his former self currently, that sounds like tobi.
I dont see why obito would know madara.

Btw it the kyubbi didnt fought madara imo. Madara summoned the kyubi and controlled it like a pet to attack konoha. Itachi said so.

And yeah either its that or its madara in obito's body. Chances are tobi is madara.
In any case the writer isnt stupid and he made it this way so ppl will speculate if its obito or madara.

Btw anime doesnt even show the obito kakashi gaiden if i remember right.
Obito doesnt even seem relevant.
Chances are tobi is madara who is currently a shadow of his former self. I got a feeling he is gonna try use itachi to get even stronger somehow.

We already know that Madara is Tobi, because Pain referred to Tobi directly as Madara.

I think the big questions right now are those having to do with Kakashi's sharingan. What is the nature of his sharingan, as a sharingan that was transplanted into a non-Uchiha? First of all, is Kakashi's Mangekyou the same Mangekyou that Obito would have gotten if he had reached mangekyou? And just what exactly triggered Kakashi's development of his mangekyou? Since he has activated his mangekyou, is it damaging his eyesight? By the way he uses it it seems like it's not degenerating his eyesight, since his only concern seems to be the massive amount of chakra it uses. And, of course, does that mean that Kakashi has a restored mangekyou, that is one that does not degenerate because it is not in the body of the original sharingan user?

On a side note, while it seems like it could be assumed, it is not out and out stated that Madara and his brother gained the mangekyou sharingan by killing their respective closest friends, so then is it possible that they attained the mangekyou sharingan by some other means?

[siya]

Originally Posted by parcelsus

We already know that Madara is Tobi, because Pain referred to Tobi directly as Madara.

I think the big questions right now are those having to do with Kakashi's sharingan. What is the nature of his sharingan, as a sharingan that was transplanted into a non-Uchiha? First of all, is Kakashi's Mangekyou the same Mangekyou that Obito would have gotten if he had reached mangekyou? And just what exactly triggered Kakashi's development of his mangekyou? Since he has activated his mangekyou, is it damaging his eyesight? By the way he uses it it seems like it's not degenerating his eyesight, since his only concern seems to be the massive amount of chakra it uses. And, of course, does that mean that Kakashi has a restored mangekyou, that is one that does not degenerate because it is not in the body of the original sharingan user?

On a side note, while it seems like it could be assumed, it is not out and out stated that Madara and his brother gained the mangekyou sharingan by killing their respective closest friends, so then is it possible that they attained the mangekyou sharingan by some other means?

When did Pein ever directly refer to Tobi as Madara? I do not recall this...I have no once seen Pein call Tobi Madara.

[fenikkusu]

i dont recall what chapter it was, but i do know that tobi has been referred to as madara, but i beleive it was tobi himself that said he was madara, tobi gave pein an order to do somthing , and then tobi said something about his sharangan and called himself madara. pein took order from tobi

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by siya

When did Pein ever directly refer to Tobi as Madara? I do not recall this...I have no once seen Pein call Tobi Madara.

Chapter 383.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Originally Posted by Uchiwa_Madara

Alright, the new chapter completely proves the theory about the Tengu King. What do you think the demon thing in the background is?? and how is it that their mom was Hyugga yet they have sharingan?? the theory states that the Tengu King disguised himself as a traveler and had sex with the Hyugga girl and they had two sons; Madara and his brother, name unknown. and the Tengu had four eyes, two of the sockets were empty confirming the reason for what Itachi was saying about the siblings. and in chapter 385, even Itachi said that Madara was immortal. so suck on that to those assholes questioning his power.

The Bloodline of Tengu was just a Fan Fic theory. There has been no Tengu mentioned. The real story has already contradicted Yasha's theory. In his theory Uchiha Madara was the son of the Tengu King and a Hyuuga woman who became the progenitor of the Uchiha clan. Madara is not a progenitor. He and his brother were born within an already existing Uchiha clan which they took over after obtaining Mangekyo Sharingan.

He's right about Madara being a co-founder of Konoha but that's about it. The Sharingan demon that appears behind Itachi doesn't even look like a classic Tengu. It lacks the long nose. But Itachi's demon does lack it's 2nd set of eyes. If he takes Sasuke's eyes those empty eye sockets on the demon will probably be filled. We don't know what that demon is.

Maybe it's a genjutsu. Maybe it's a spiritual entity the Uchiha have a contract with, similar to Yondaime, Sandaime and the Death God. The Sharingan Demon is interesting but you are getting ahead of yourself by relating it to a tengu.

Akatsuki is sealing the Bijuu inside some sort of demonic entity as it is. For the Mangekyo Sharingan to be able to control the Bijuu it would make sense for it to have some sort of demonic power, hence this enigmatic Sharingan Demon.

[MadaraUchihaMS]

madara WAS the founder of th uchiha clan! google "madara uchiha" and clik th 1st link! it says so!

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by MadaraUchihaMS

madara WAS the founder of th uchiha clan! google "madara uchiha" and clik th 1st link! it says so!

And Chapter 386 says that he wasn't... No offense to wikipedia (which I'm sure is the first link, I'm not going to look), but I'll take Kishi's word over theirs.

[MadaraUchihaMS]

teknikly iz narutopedia, but i jus read it rong i think. but if u got n e Q's bout madara, i actually know a lot bout him...

[Kyto Matsunagi]

It says on the manga word for word on the past week's release. "They took over the clan once the brothers achieved Mangekyou Sharingan."

[MadaraUchihaMS]

ya i jus re-read it & ur rite. but that doesnt explain HOW they got MS

[pizzajincuuriki]

More importantly, how did Kakashi do it, and is his mangekyo an immortal on like madara when he took his brothers seeing as he go this from obito?

[siya]

Originally Posted by pizzajincuuriki

More importantly, how did Kakashi do it, and is his mangekyo an immortal on like madara when he took his brothers seeing as he go this from obito?

We'll there is probably more then one way to get the MS, and he probably is. Obito didn't have the MS as the time, so obviously Kakashi obtained it after that.

[james0246]

I wasn't sure where to ask this question, so I decided to put it in the thread.

Since both Madara and the Mokuton ability (and it current user Tenzo) seem to have some ability to control the Kyuubi (whether to actively control the Kyuubi or to supress the Kyuubi's chakra), Is it possible that the Kyuubi has something to do with the creation of the Konoha village?

Or, more specifically, the joining of the Senjuu's (is that how you spell the 1st clan name) and Uchiha's resulted from both their abilities to supress the Kyuubi?

Did the 1st and Madara create the viallage around the concept of controlling the Kyuubi? And, if so, was Madara's desire to use the Kyuubi to conquer others, while the 1st simply wished to seal it away, thus resulting in their fight at VotE?

[siya]

Originally Posted by james3wk

I wasn't sure where to ask this question, so I decided to put it in the thread.

Since both Madara and the Mokuton ability (and it current user Tenzo) seem to have some ability to control the Kyuubi (whether to actively control the Kyuubi or to supress the Kyuubi's chakra), Is it possible that the Kyuubi has something to do with the creation of the Konoha village?

Or, more specifically, the joining of the Senjuu's (is that how you spell the 1st clan name) and Uchiha's resulted from both their abilities to supress the Kyuubi?

Did the 1st and Madara create the viallage around the concept of controlling the Kyuubi? And, if so, was Madara's desire to use the Kyuubi to conquer others, while the 1st simply wished to seal it away, thus resulting in their fight at VotE?

I think that could be a very good possibility...Perhaps when Madara summond the Kyuubi when Minatio was Hokage it was an attempt to take over the villiage...I mean...Madara and the First started the Villiage..and obviously Madara never got leadership of Konoha, he wanted revenge..or to take controll