Hard Work vs Talent

[Fome]

No matter how hard most of us try, we will never gain the astonishing kind of photographic memory some autistic savants demonstrate. Therefore, some skills can never be acquired.

[Thentus]

Originally Posted by kayos

Here's a question:

Can hard work built talent?

Let's say, you don't have the talent to draw to begin with but you shrived to get better and achieved.
In the end results wouldn't you say that a person can gain talent through hard work.

As for talent, wouldn't you say talent tends to rust without practice... isn't practice considered hard work.

Where was I getting at? Oh yeah, hard work without talent would be pointless... then again on the other hand, if you are talented how much work would you have to put in to polish your talent.

What I'm trying to say is that being talented pretty much puts you on an easy route (more like a head start). While hard work is still hard work with the notion of possibility of not gaining the talent one wanted/needed.

For those of us that have to work hard to gain those talent, keep striving and cheers.

Hard work and talent are their own seperate entities pretty much.

[escimo]

Originally Posted by kayos

Here's a question:

Can hard work built talent?

Let's say, you don't have the talent to draw to begin with but you shrived to get better and achieved.
In the end results wouldn't you say that a person can gain talent through hard work.

As for talent, wouldn't you say talent tends to rust without practice... isn't practice considered hard work.

Where was I getting at? Oh yeah, hard work without talent would be pointless... then again on the other hand, if you are talented how much work would you have to put in to polish your talent.

What I'm trying to say is that being talented pretty much puts you on an easy route (more like a head start). While hard work is still hard work with the notion of possibility of not gaining the talent one wanted/needed.

For those of us that have to work hard to gain those talent, keep striving and cheers.

I think talent shouldn't be confused with skill. Even as they're sometimes considered as synonyms. Talent is something you're basically born with. A lucky ticket in genetic lottery.

I wouldn't call it a head start either. Truly talented people tend to be able of much faster progress. Surely it doesn't matter how talented you are you're sure to face obstacles. There are very few fields where you can just ride on a single talent.

Personal example.
I played violin for about 12 years. The musical aspects weren't really a problem. Understanding the pieces and pitch came quite effortlessly. I think it wouldn't be so wrong to call me musically talented at least to some extent. Not being that ambitious about it I was happy just keeping up with the pack as it required quite minimal effort.
At one point I changed teacher. He took a very different approach. He immediately gave me a piece that was far more advanced that anything I've played before. My former teacher went by the book so does speak. Being faced with an actual challenge inspiration sparked. I probably made more progress in 7 months than I've made in past 2-3 years.
Well the stride didn't last long. The pieces I played at the time weren't that challenging technically rather musically. However one of the following pieces was more technical which became a real problem. My physical coordination isn't that great and since violin as an instrument doesn't give you any help as far pitch is concerned I was faced with a biggest obstacle I had encountered. Problem was that I felt that I was incapable to relay what was in my head to my hands. The aspects that had been easy for me like pitch were now disrupted by a physical issue. I knew full well what I was doing wrong but I just couldn't get my hands to keep up with my head.
I became frustrated as my progress pretty much ground to halt and I felt all I could do was to watch my peers disappear into the horizon. The little flame of inspiration that had lit before was suffocated. I hate to say this but at that point I stopped playing.
In retrospective I can say that I was stupid. Even as it felt like I had hit a wall I'm sure that I could have overcome it even to some extent. Violin may have never been a true calling for me but it still bothers me after 10 years that I was so easily defeated. When the time came to do some hard work I was discouraged and didn't have the discipline to push forward. 12 years and one talent wasted. Not an admirable score for a small winner in a genetic lottery.

Let this be a lesson for you kids.

[Furuno]

Originally Posted by kayos

Here's a question:

Can hard work built talent?

Let's say, you don't have the talent to draw to begin with but you shrived to get better and achieved.
In the end results wouldn't you say that a person can gain talent through hard work.

As for talent, wouldn't you say talent tends to rust without practice... isn't practice considered hard work.

Where was I getting at? Oh yeah, hard work without talent would be pointless... then again on the other hand, if you are talented how much work would you have to put in to polish your talent.

What I'm trying to say is that being talented pretty much puts you on an easy route (more like a head start). While hard work is still hard work with the notion of possibility of not gaining the talent one wanted/needed.

For those of us that have to work hard to gain those talent, keep striving and cheers.

I think no.

Let's use this analogy :
Talent -> Processor overclocking capability
Hard work -> Motherboard oc capability
If you're proc capable of increasing volts/unlocked modifier, it'll be easier to OC. But if your motherboard don't support oc, you can't oc it. If your proc not to good in oc altough your motherboard very capable of it. It won't do as much as "talented" proc. No matter what mb you use you can't upgrade the processor. (Ex : When i use 4000+ on AMD690G it say 4000+ but on AMD790FX it say 6400+, wow?)

Weird analogy isn't it?

[-KarumA-]

im pickign ahrd work but i wouldve gone for both
even with talent you cant get somewhere without putting hard work into it.. thats just how reality works
there is difference between having talent and having talent while you work hard
because with only talent you cant expect things to just happen you have to work hard to earn the acknowledge (or howver you spell that)

hard work can make you experiencedbut if you have talent and put as much hard work in it to get experience needed you can become even better

[aka Providence]

this is slightly off-topic, but with regards to luck -- the problem is that you either believe in it, or you don't. i feel that natural instinct, or how you immediately handle the situation at hand is a far better thing than talent or hard work: quick thinking, in a nutshell. that works for me most of the time, in any case.

[genryou]

..........

quick thinking is a talent, is it not?

[Z3120]

Wouldn't talent also represent certain people as geniuses? Take Terence Tao of UCLA for example. The Mozart of Math. A mathematician genius who only comes once in a century. Is it talent, hard work or a combination of both which provides him this vast understanding of math so easily? Hard work can precede talent as everyone needs to study and learn like anyone else, but talented individuals in many shapes and levels will undoubtedly have a more natural knack in comprehending certain things more easily than others. That's why we have specially gifted people who come every decade or so in many different careers.

[aka Providence]

Originally Posted by genryou

..........

quick thinking is a talent, is it not?

quick thinking is quick thinking, at least, that's how i consider it. that's mainly because it involves itself on several aspects on how i do things; making me less inclined to call it talent or skill. it's certainly not hard work, though.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by aka Providence

this is slightly off-topic, but with regards to luck -- the problem is that you either believe in it, or you don't.

Ok, then call it "chance"

[Solais]

I think it's both. Like me, who has talent in writing, but I'll have to work hard to become a real writer. <That's my goal.>

But, in Engineering, there is someone I know, who can learn everything without studiing much, and there's me who can't learn anything no matter how hard I try.

[aka Providence]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

Ok, then call it "chance"

it's the same thing in essence. luck, chance, or coincidence -- it doesn't matter to me when i do things.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by aka Providence

it's the same thing in essence. luck, chance, or coincidence -- it doesn't matter to me when i do things.

Maybe not but looking at hard work/talent, the above things are not something to
"believe in" as you must admit that no amount of "karma" wil give total control over
what can, or can't happen with your hard work and talent

good example is 'making it big in the music industry' where chance/luck/coincidence
is the biggest factor in having succes

[black monster]

by hard work you gain experience

[oompa loompa]

dont they go hand in hand? no matter how smart you are.. and i mean no matter how smart you are - you need to work hard. brains and talent will only take you so far without work. however, theres no denying an aspect of talent is there. talent only allows you to achieve something in less time or better than what others who arnt as talented. the point is theres still no real escape from hard work.

[Eclipze]

Well, what's most important in becoming successful is fairly subjective depending on the situation. For sports, its' talent, for the music industry, its your...luck and connections.

I'm heading towards the animation/game industry as a cg artist, and what I've been taught at a recent animation workshop, is that what you need to succeed in the industry is simple: Reputation.

There were several cited examples of madly talented animators who don't get jobs (anymore) due to the fact that their reputation stinks. Some had attitudes that pissed off co-workers (not turning up for work on time without reason), and others were irresponsible (forgetting to inform the company that they're working for another studios). Such "simple" acts that contribute negatively to your reputation will eventually kill your career in this field (if the first offence didn't). In this industry, it doesn't matter how talented or hard working you are if your reputation is in the trash bin. Sure, having a little talent, having the passion and working hard, along with having proper connection would help, but ultimately everything depends on your reputation.
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But when talking about talent vs hard work in general, talent is gonna take you much further than the hard working but talentless bloke could ever dream of.

Hard working talented person > (Hard working talentless person = Moderately lazy but talented person) > Extremely lazy talented person.

[Sun Shine]

Talent is nothing if hard work isn't used to show it off.

I will use illustration as an example.

Some people will be able to draw well without much effort and therefore don't put much work into it. However this was although they are of a decent level, they have the potential to be amazing but without the hardwork they cannot move to the next stage. Where as someone may start of as a poor illustrator with weak drawings but through more and more drawing and persistant hard work they will increase their own ability and can even surpass those with more talent. However without much talent the limitations to how much you can acheive are lower than if you had more talent. Also some people may be slower at realising and tapping into their talent and without hard work the potential may pass by without the person ever realising.

The ones with the most raw talent have the greatest potential and compared to someone without much talent, if they both worked hard it is obvious who would come off best. Overall it is always going to depend on an individual. Things like this are pointless as it will always be different for each person.

[Whitemoon648]

Talent and hardwork can be the same . If you try your hard at something then you will become talented in that area ,if you love to work in that area. Its as simple as that.

So hardwork + True love of the task + Calmness( Not pressuring yourself one bit about wanting/desiring/or having to be the best at it) = talent . So purely Doing it because you want and enjoy it. Nothing else.

So If you try really hard at something you dont like/love then the chances are high that it wont become one of your talents.


Talent is something you Obtain, You are not born with it.



P.S. IQ and level of intellegence is another story. But we are talking about talent here and not IQ.

[ESC]

If the talented person is slacking off, the hard worker will definitely achieve his/her goal. If both talented and non-talented are hard workers, then the result will be most likely be favorable to the talented individual.

IMHO.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by ESC

If the talented person is slacking off, the hard worker will definitely achieve his/her goal. If both talented and non-talented are hard workers, then the result will be most likely be favorable to the talented individual.

IMHO.

If a person is already talented in an area Vs a person that isnt talented in that area, ( if the same amount of work is done) then the Talented person wins.

Thats because The talented person, has already worked hard to obtain that talent.



If I am 15 and talented, i will win against another person that is 15 and not talented in the area which we are competing. The only reason i win is that because I have been working on that subject for 15 years and obtain the talent, and the other person hasnt . I have an advantage over the other person,. Even if we both put the same amount of work in that area after we are 15.


A more clear example is that, If 2 people are taking Calc 2, One got an A in Calc1 and the other person got a C in Calc1, Then even if they both work as hard as each other in Calc2, The person with the A in calc 1 Will still get a better grade than the person with a C in Calc1.



P.S. If One cant undrestand what i wrote, then one is not talented enough to read my IMBA posts .