(L) KimiKiss pure rouge

[physics223]

I also didn't like the series's insinuation that a possible development could have occurred between Kuryuu and Hiiragi. They should have spent more time developing the characters who needed more explication with regard to their denouement. Merely nitpicks, but again, if you want to offer an alternative explanation to my lack of satiety, feel free to do so here.

Originally Posted by Westlo

As opposed to him staying with her because of that promise when he really loves Mao?

No, as opposed to not making that promise when he didn't even mean it.

Sorry for the double, post. If a mod can unite these posts I am grateful.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by physics223

No, as opposed to not making that promise when he didn't even mean it.

He did at the time, though that's back before he himself was 100% sure about his own feelings. He was just working of what he felt at the time.

[toxic_trance]

Am disappointed with Kouichi, and I too wished that Hoshino was the one who did the break up, but in the hindsight, I think this way was better, since if Hoshino-san did it, it really wouldnt serve the purpose. But BANZAI for KAzuki who is definitely way smarter and did an awesome job winning Futami-san

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Manji Midou

As big as a Maoxkouichi fanboy that I am, I sorta agree with them to at some degree. What if Mao had never confessed? I don't think Kouichi would had ever acted on his subconscious feelings for Mao because he is a nice guy and all.
He probably would had never come to fully understand how much he cared for her...so Yeah I feel for yuumi, had the confession not been made...kouichi would be takingthose trains to visit her as promised...oh well i got my ending so I'm happy..lulz.

that is why it is not a sudden thing. It would have been sudden if Mao had never confessed to him. If all of sudden she moved out, gave him back the book and then he realized his true feelings, then it would have not made sense. The confession was necessary for him to realize his true feelings. I see it as fixing a wrong. If Mao had not pushed kouichi to be with Yuumi they will probably never would have gotten together, and the same for Mao and kouichi. Yuumi was needed for them to moved out of the "sibling" zone.

[physics223]

I'd like to point out something, however. Mao had insinuated even before Yuumi and Kouichi were 'going out' that she had some feelings for the guy. The confession wasn't necessary, in my opinion. Perhaps the point is that Kouichi is just insensitive. Of course he's better than Makoto, but he's a dolt also.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by golthin

Yuumi was needed for them to moved out of the "sibling" zone.

Keeping that in mind, it makes the whole realtionship between Kouichi and Yuumi all the more upsetting to think about. I mean if you think about it, it's pretty crazy to think his love for her was just fake at the end of the day --- that's even more upsetting.

But still i am not let down with this last episode. Sure i've been let down with Kouichi, the only male character in the series who i don't have much respect for in the end, though he followed his heart and i can bring a smile to my face.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Keeping that in mind, it makes the whole realtionship between Kouichi and Yuumi all the more upsetting to think about. I mean if you think about it, it's pretty crazy to think his love for her was just fake at the end of the day --- that's even more upsetting.

I think kouichi really liked Yuumi, what is there not to like about her. That is why it was so hard for kouichi to do that. There are many levels of "like", it just happened that kouichi's feeling for Mao were a few steps ahead of Yuumi.

[Manji Midou]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Keeping that in mind, it makes the whole realtionship between Kouichi and Yuumi all the more upsetting to think about. I mean if you think about it, it's pretty crazy to think his love for her was just fake at the end of the day --- that's even more upsetting.

But still i am not let down with this last episode. Sure i've been let down with Kouichi, the only male character in the series who i don't have much respect for in the end, though he followed his heart and i can bring a smile to my face.

Yes I'm actually disturbed by him saying that he was lying to himself all this time, he certainly had feelings for yuumi it's just that he fell out of love for her when he realized his feelings for Mao...so I don't think those where the best words that he could have had said.

[Deathkillz]

I don't see how his feelings for Yumi could have been fake. Nope, never. He was dead serious about the promise but heck what do you know, feelings change. He realised that his real feelings lie with Mao and that he made a mistake. Not saying that he didn't love Yumi, but he loves Mao more. You have to give up one relationship either way. He did the right thing by clearing that up as well instead of holding two relationships until the bitter end *cough*

When he said that he has been lying to himself, I seriously bet that he means that it was ever since he did begin to hold feelings for Mao (or when those feelings surfaced, either way). Not day one as in the very first time kind of day

[FlareKnight]

Well looking back has been an interesting series. You notice things like what happened to the childhood friends trio Kazuki-Mao-Kouichi. While 2/3 of the trio were dealing with their friendship, finding out how they feel, getting depressed, and then getting back together. Kazuki really departed from them.

Had the early moments and then Mao telling Kazuki about how he did jump off the swings, but then boom it was pretty much gone. Participated in the movie club, but felt almost like they were never around each other. When Kazuki met up with Mao during his Eriko hunt just reminded me. Mao really didn't have many chances to pick up on what was going on in Kazuki's love life. Guess that's part of life though, focusing on their romantic relationships created that separation.

If I'm proud of one thing its that I never converted to the second ED . First song stayed strong right until the end. Was pretty weird how I wouldn't let that go, but oh well that's life for you.

[Lego]

Good discussions guys, but I think we're taking that line a little to far. When he says that he was lying to himself, her, and Yuumi, he is talking about his true, deep feelings. He liked Yuumi, he had a crush on her, but his feelings for Mao erupted like nothing else. You get the feeling if he had no promised her to stay with her if that we would of saw the breakup sooner. Much like Kai said to Mao when he helped her out after she ran away from the movie in that you have to go for your true feelings and he encouraged her to and look what happened. The same goes for Kouichi, he realizes that him lying to himself, Yuumi, and Mao hurt everyone, he doesn't want that to happen anymore.

The confession that Mao yelled at him was given back in this episode by Kouichi. I can't be the only one that noticed the exact same wording in the "The one I love is Mao-neechan!" then him standing their in defiance when Mao tried to shoo him away like shes done the whole series, trying not to hurt him or herself anymore. I have to give Kouichi a lot of credit for briskly walking up to her, putting his hands on her shoulders, looking directly into her eyes and going "I love you Mao-neechan". That was him finally coming to terms with his feelings. When Mao first confessed to him, she was at her emotional edge and her true feelings came out in full colors. Notice since that time all she could think about, all she could talk about was Kouichi, Kouichi, Kouichi. She even tells him "You always make me think about you and..." that was before the kiss

So when I saw that I was in heaven and I still am and am glad that Kouichi and Mao are together. These two people couldn't live without each other for one minute, we saw what happens. I agree with Death, he was lying to himself about his feelings for Mao so that he wouldn't hurt Yuumi. Kai picks up on this and tells him flat out that "Mao had the same eyes that you do, she lied to herself so she wouldn't hurt me". Look at how deep the montage scene goes while hes running to her, thats where his feelings came to light. That and he uses a promise that he did when they were kids again, that quick dual flashback to him with his hand on Mao's shoulder like now, except it's him confessing to her that he loves her, and vice versa. You have never seen Mao like that at all. Shes instantly crying, going "Me too" then "I love you, Kouichi!" while wiping her tears on his arm before going in for the deep kiss where shes crying. Then they show them standing with each other, Mao's head on his shoulder, blushing hand in hand and she goes in for that second kiss heh. That look on Mao and Kouichi's face made the series for me, amazing.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by golthin

I think kouichi really liked Yuumi, what is there not to like about her. That is why it was so hard for kouichi to do that. There are many levels of "like", it just happened that kouichi's feeling for Mao were a few steps ahead of Yuumi.

But going from his speech to Mao, he is pretty much saying that he made mistakes and what not. Yes he had feelings for her, though i want to believe he truly loved Yuumi, though i just can't think that after his display infront of Mao. I was all for him having feels for her before that scene.

[FateAnomaly]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Kouichi's subconscious feelings for Mao were far stronger than anything he could have felt for Yuumi in the short time they had been dating, so I have no idea why people continue to act so blindsided... At this point it's either irresponsible viewership in the sense of "too much seeing only what you want to see" while not acknowledging what the writers are indicating you should fee.

Subconscious feelings? Kouichi doesn't even remember Mao when they met at episode 1 whereas kazuki remembered her. And she hasn't really been away for very long. She left at the end of middle school and came back on the third year of high school which means only about 2-3 years. He had feelings after Mao confessed to him. Then he think Mao is better than Yuumi so he choose Mao instead.

[physics223]

Originally Posted by Lego

Good discussions guys, but I think we're taking that line a little to far. When he says that he was lying to himself, her, and Yuumi, he is talking about his true, deep feelings. He liked Yuumi, he had a crush on her, but his feelings for Mao erupted like nothing else. You get the feeling if he had no promised her to stay with her if that we would of saw the breakup sooner. Much like Kai said to Mao when he helped her out after she ran away from the movie in that you have to go for your true feelings and he encouraged her to and look what happened. The same goes for Kouichi, he realizes that him lying to himself, Yuumi, and Mao hurt everyone, he doesn't want that to happen anymore.

The confession that Mao yelled at him was given back in this episode by Kouichi. I can't be the only one that noticed the exact same wording in the "The one I love is Mao-neechan!" then him standing their in defiance when Mao tried to shoo him away like shes done the whole series, trying not to hurt him or herself anymore. I have to give Kouichi a lot of credit for briskly walking up to her, putting his hands on her shoulders, looking directly into her eyes and going "I love you Mao-neechan". That was him finally coming to terms with his feelings. When Mao first confessed to him, she was at her emotional edge and her true feelings came out in full colors. Notice since that time all she could think about, all she could talk about was Kouichi, Kouichi, Kouichi. She even tells him "You always make me think about you and..." that was before the kiss

So when I saw that I was in heaven and I still am and am glad that Kouichi and Mao are together. These two people couldn't live without each other for one minute, we saw what happens. I agree with Death, he was lying to himself about his feelings for Mao so that he wouldn't hurt Yuumi. Kai picks up on this and tells him flat out that "Mao had the same eyes that you do, she lied to herself so she wouldn't hurt me". Look at how deep the montage scene goes while hes running to her, thats where his feelings came to light. That and he uses a promise that he did when they were kids again, that quick dual flashback to him with his hand on Mao's shoulder like now, except it's him confessing to her that he loves her, and vice versa. You have never seen Mao like that at all. Shes instantly crying, going "Me too" then "I love you, Kouichi!" while wiping her tears on his arm before going in for the deep kiss where shes crying. Then they show them standing with each other, Mao's head on his shoulder, blushing hand in hand and she goes in for that second kiss heh. That look on Mao and Kouichi's face made the series for me, amazing.

I guess this boils down to a matter of taste, with which we cannot debate with. I would argue, however, that if I am unsure of my own feelings I don't say anything I would probably regret later on. For example, if I am unsure with any of the two girls who like me, I don't promise one that I'll be there for her forever. It's just not honest. This is what I meant when it seemed fake.

Serious words like that must not be said if they are half-meant. It must be either all-in, or all-out. You don't play poker with a grey thinking; you're only going to lose faster: you must think a lot, but also trust yourself totally when the going gets tough. Kindly read my most recent blog post, and comment there if you wish. I pointed out in that post that I had no qualms with Mao. She tried her best, despite how difficult it was for her, to never get in the way of Yuumi and Kouichi. A promise is not weighed lightly. Sure, people can say that promises are meant to be broken, but if they are then the law would be useless right now. The law is a pact between the state and the person: if all people broke it, what use would it be?

[Zanshun]

Hoshino-san was too good for him anyhow. I just wished they hadn't dragged it out so long, I wanted to punch Kouichi in face everytime he was with Yuumi and he gave those weepy stares at Mao. How could someone be so oblivious to their "girlfriend's" feelings. Kai and Yuumi were hurt needlessly, at least both were strong to stand aftewards and realize they'll be just fine without Mao/Kouichi.

Kazuki was the real star of this anime, nothing to feel negative about his story line. His polite and firm rejection of Sakino was well done and damn manly. He ended up with he girl he wanted and their admissions of love felt thousands more genuine then whatever Mao and Kouichi could muster up.

As this season winds down, I'm rather disappointed with the endings thus far. The last few episodes of H2O were just WTF and left me feeling average since I really grew to hate Hirose. Kimikiss here was lukewarm as I am thrilled about Kzauki/Eriko but I can't come to care about Kouichi/Mao. Among the romance series theres only True Tears left for me, Shin better choose Hiromi as I'm past my point of annoyance already.

[Lego]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

Subconscious feelings? Kouichi doesn't even remember Mao when they met at episode 1 whereas kazuki remembered her. And she hasn't really been away for very long. She left at the end of middle school and came back on the third year of high school which means only about 2-3 years. He had feelings after Mao confessed to him. Then he think Mao is better than Yuumi so he choose Mao instead.

I think you're giving Kouichi the short end of the stick. He didn't remember her right away because he was taken aback by how much she had changed. Look at when they use that scene in the montage, they're both wide eyed and staring at each other, thats why I kept saying I got this feeling from episode one and the hints came in later. Kouichi started to take notice of Mao much earlier in that he had what I kept saying in a "sixth sense" for her and her feelings. Although I misjudged this sixth sense as just that and not as love which it really was, he cared for her so much.

To me what really kick started Kouichi's feelings for Mao was the kiss Mao gave him when he was sick laying in bed. Ever since then he only thought of Mao even with Yuumi, trying to lie to himself, to Mao, and to her so he wouldn't hurt anyone. I think that he did have feelings for Yuumi, sure. I don't paint him as the heartless bastard that some are seemingly doing now. Its just that his love for Mao was and is greater in his heart and his mind. Yuumi knew, she even tells him "I've always been watching you, I knew your feelings". She thanks him for the time they were together in that it made her a little more courageous. Kouichi had to do it in that he finally made up his mind.

At the campfire after him and Mao starred at each other when he shot up she closed her eyes and kind of gave him this "good, I'm leaving now" look. This is what triggered in Kouichi's mind that he had to act, he didn't want to loose Mao again and he even tells her that "he won't let her go again". These feelings for Kouichi were always in him but took certain things and events to bring them out. Look at how he broke down when he saw the "Dog of Flanders", he knew she was gone and he couldn't do and didn't do anything. Thats why Kai's words really echoed within him in that "was it ok that Mao moved?", no it wasn't, he had lost her and finally realized that he needed to chase after her.

[Slave0fLife]

Though this is my first post, I've been reading this about 10 pages before this one. All I have to say is I think the "secondary" relationship, between Kazuki and Futami, was the one that made this series interesting to me. I found myself watching these last 4 episodes praying that Kazuki wouldn't go to Sakino in the end, and I was glad to see that he was one who knew what he wanted, who he wanted, and wouldn't give up on Futami. Mao and Kouchi was, to me, a "normal" anime-romance-soap-opera, but Futami was a more unpredictable character. Actually, I think I only watched this series because of the last part of the first episode, which was like "WTF?!?!", and I found it both funny and intriguing. So much so that I really did not know 100% if she would end up with Kazuki, whereas I did know (as I imagine everybody did) that Mao would surely end up with Kouchi.

Nice series, I enjoyed it.

[Lego]

Originally Posted by physics223

I guess this boils down to a matter of taste, with which we cannot debate with. I would argue, however, that if I am unsure of my own feelings I don't say anything I would probably regret later on. For example, if I am unsure with any of the two girls who like me, I don't promise one that I'll be there for her forever. It's just not honest. This is what I meant when it seemed fake.

Serious words like that must not be said if they are half-meant. It must be either all-in, or all-out. You don't play poker with a grey thinking; you're only going to lose faster: you must think a lot, but also trust yourself totally when the going gets tough. Kindly read my most recent blog post, and comment there if you wish. I pointed out in that post that I had no qualms with Mao. She tried her best, despite how difficult it was for her, to never get in the way of Yuumi and Kouichi. A promise is not weighed lightly. Sure, people can say that promises are meant to be broken, but if they are then the law would be useless right now. The law is a pact between the state and the person: if all people broke it, what use would it be?

He apologizes to Yuumi that he can't keep his promise. I think whats getting a lot of people is that they put the whole "Baton Pass" scene in earlier in the episode which really made it seem like something else would happen for the ending. I think part of it to is that shes no longer his "big sister" but his "girlfriend", ie "his soul mate". That was the significance behind Mao saying that she can "retire from her role as big sister" and that "Kouichi was never as manly when he first promised Yuumi". But then again thats what makes it hurt for Yuumi fans that much more I guess. Mao was trying her hardest to stay out, to suppress her feelings but she couldn't, as golthin said(think it was him) shes crazy for Kouichi. She even mentions to him in the final scene while crying that "You always make me think about you and.." right before the kiss heh. Mao was lying to herself, Kouichi was lying to himself about his feelings for Mao, and his actions toward Yuumi and most importantly he was lying to himself for a good half of the series.

I know that everyone doesn't think the same way I do(Thank god huh?) but I'm genuinely happy that Kouichi and Mao are finally together, an amazing confession and scene with no BS, no cop outs, no strings, just them kissing and starring into each others eyes happy to finally be together and being able to get their feelings out in the open. I said it earlier before 24 that this wasn't a matter of "winning or loosing" for me, not a matter of "notching another predicted couple on my score sheet", I had a vested interest in seeing them finally get together and boy did it pay off.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by physics223

I guess this boils down to a matter of taste, with which we cannot debate with. I would argue, however, that if I am unsure of my own feelings I don't say anything I would probably regret later on. For example, if I am unsure with any of the two girls who like me, I don't promise one that I'll be there for her forever. It's just not honest. This is what I meant when it seemed fake.

Serious words like that must not be said if they are half-meant. It must be either all-in, or all-out. You don't play poker with a grey thinking; you're only going to lose faster: you must think a lot, but also trust yourself totally when the going gets tough. Kindly read my most recent blog post, and comment there if you wish. I pointed out in that post that I had no qualms with Mao. She tried her best, despite how difficult it was for her, to never get in the way of Yuumi and Kouichi. A promise is not weighed lightly. Sure, people can say that promises are meant to be broken, but if they are then the law would be useless right now. The law is a pact between the state and the person: if all people broke it, what use would it be?

How about it like this?

He thought he knew his feelings but he also thought wrongly as time passed. From the kiss on the forehead back in ep 10, the thought of "wtf is Mao doing" has never swayed far from his mind. And of course, he never really did have the chance to ask her seen as she has been avoiding him since (in a subtle way). But still, time dulled the sense for him and the long he spent with Yumi the more he felt he loves her, and the thought of Mao was just "why". He never even thought about "what if" he loved Mao until she confessed to him after he was being too pushy on the Kai matter. And this was after the promise he made to Yumi.

(And looking back I forgotten all about Futami's hide and seek kiss ~ MOEE! <3).

[physics223]

Feelings, however, are not to be toyed with.

Then again we will only regress into the infinite cycle of debate, so I'll stop here.