2008-04-12, 10:46 | Link #1741 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
Quote:
Shoudnt he just let it float up if it was in UBW? It should be a waste of magical energy to reproduce Excalibur if it were in UBW becouse Archer at that point was no longer [--SPOILER--] (sorry dont want to tell this spoiler for peaple who didnt play the game) |
|
2008-04-12, 11:04 | Link #1742 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
Quote:
All of Shirou's swords are first made through UBW. He never actually creates his own swords from scratch; all he does is project the sword from UBW. So, Excalibur must be in UBW, otherwise Archer would have never been able to make Excalibur in the first place. |
|
2008-04-12, 11:31 | Link #1743 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
Quote:
Why should Excalibur be there when Shirou never saw it? There is no point for Archer to "project" something that is already there. Like I already sayd its a waste of magical energy to "project" a sword that is already present in UBW. So if he sayd to Saber that he should reproduce the holy sword then it means that Excalibur is not in UBW! And Shirou was always making swords he didnt get them from UBW even Archer used tracing to kill Caster just like Shirou did when blocking Gilgamesh swords before he used that shield. |
|
2008-04-12, 11:50 | Link #1744 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
Quote:
Once Shirou looks at a weapon, it is instantly recorded within UBW. The blueprints, the materials, everything that is necessary to remake that weapon is stored within the Reality Marble, whether or not it is expanded. That is why Shirou can recreate a weapon with such absurd precision, as everything that he needs to create that weapon is already available at his fingertips. When Shirou projects a weapon, he is drawing everything he needs from UBW. If Shirou were to project a weapon without UBW, the result would be completely unacceptable in comparison. Furthermore, by using UBW to facilitate the Projection process, Shirou actually saves mana, which would've otherwise been wasted recreating the materials. Also, it is incredibly absurd to believe that Archer, who was once Saber's master, did NOT see Excalibur sometime during his life. It is also incredibly hard to believe that Archer would be able to know about Saber's sword without even seeing it before (Remember, at this point her sword was still covered in Invisible Air), not to mention the impossibility of being able to project the sword at that precise level at the same time. |
|
2008-04-12, 12:38 | Link #1745 | ||
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
Quote:
Shirou never saw Excalibur in UBW route.... So he was never able to project it. But Archer probable did see Excalibur in his life time. Shirou did make the wapons on his own, doing that he often went over his limit becouse of that his body wasnt able to handel it and his wounds from before started to open again and he got heavy headache. Quote:
Since UBW does what Archer wants then Archer can add and remove swords if he wants. So he didnt add Excalibure in UBW. Last edited by Fuuma; 2008-04-12 at 12:50. |
||
2008-04-12, 15:36 | Link #1746 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
|
Quote:
First of all, you're mistaken on your assumption that Shirou was able to do all that independently of UBW. Without UBW, there would be no blueprint that would serve as a foundation for his Tracing, so at best he would just come up with an absolutely useless fake. Just by seeing the sword, Shirou was able to record it in his UBW, which was then used to facilitate the Tracing. The reason why Shirou was affected by his Tracing was because he himself did not understand magecraft very well, and his Tracing was a harmful process to begin with. Your second mistaken assumption is that UBW needs to be expanded in order to be active. You simply do not just "add" or "remove" swords in UBW; any weapon that Shirou sees is recorded for the rest of his existence regardless of whether or not he's even aware of it. A Reality Marble is a powerful but limited magecraft. It allows the user what cannot be done in reality, but that potential follows a specific theme that the user cannot control. Like a tool, the user of the Reality Marble can utilize it in a variety of ways for a specific purpose, but it cannot change what the Reality Marble does. Willingly changing the nature of a Reality Marble is an impossible task, as the Reality Marble is the reflection of one's soul. Which leads to my third point: the ability of UBW stays the same for both Archer and Shirou in all three routes, so there isn't any need to worry about that. Finally, I was pointing out the fact that you believed Excalibur wasn't in Archer's UBW. By "Shirou" I was mostly talking about Emiya Shirou in general, including the Shirous in the three routes and Archer. It's a given that UBW-path Shirou did not have Excalibur stored in his UBW, since he has not seen it. But that does not hold for Archer. |
|
2008-04-12, 15:45 | Link #1747 |
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
Explanation of Unlimited Blade Works:
http://web.archive.org/web/200704020...itedBladeWorks It's easier when Fuyuki can explain it for you. |
2008-04-12, 15:48 | Link #1748 | ||||
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm assuming a feature of UBW is so that Gaia doesn't reject the projections and destroy them. Last edited by OceanBlue; 2008-04-12 at 16:07. |
||||
2008-04-13, 04:01 | Link #1749 |
Lord of Blades
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 33
|
Okay let me get this straight. UBW is some kind of recording device which replicates sword type noble phantasm which shirou sees during his life. But it still doesnt explain how come shirou has so many swords in UBW route unless shirou read "Book of Noble phantasm" or something like that.
Hmm iamandragon did say something bout UBW cause the mana to reproduced the existing sword decreases but the fuyuki said theres no prana at all... I dont understand the last statement:However, (while expanded) remaking a destroyed weapon or making a new weapon that hadn't been present at expansion of UBW will cost an extremely large amount of prana.(Someone explain please) Is it true that just by looking at the Noble phantasm archer/shirou will know the history the skill and all of the things that has anything to do with the swords?? |
2008-04-13, 11:51 | Link #1750 | |||||
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As an example, if Shirou had prepared the blueprints for Kanshou and Bakuya before expanding UBW, it wouldn't have cost mana, but if they were broken in UBW, he would have to spend mana recreating them. Quote:
Quote:
And remember, Fuyuki Wiki and I aren't the authoritative sources on UBW or the Nasuverse, but I'm pretty sure Fuyuki Wiki is reliable [people in other TM forums consider it reliable]. I might have interpreted it incorrectly. |
|||||
2008-04-15, 15:02 | Link #1751 | |
Lord of Blades
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 33
|
Quote:
How does archer kill berserker anyway? If he did like in the anime using UBW but stabbing Berserker instead of firing the swords like arrows then he's one hell of a swordsman. How does archer learn Rho Aias? and why did shirou got only 4 petals instead of the usual 7? Is there a difference in prana between shirou with archer? Isnt archer supposed to be a caster servant? I mean he's a magi..... Is anti-hero the same as reverse heroes? So the reason why archer is executed because he is a reversed hero? How is saber reaction when she found herself in UBW? Is she like gilgamesh "These are all just trifling swords" or like Illya "Reality Marble??" Whats the difference between a marble phantasm and a reality marble. Last edited by Blade_Lord; 2008-04-15 at 15:26. |
|
2008-04-16, 11:39 | Link #1752 | |||||||||||||
Martian diplomat
|
Quote:
The then, Shirou in UBW will never become Archer. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Shirou was actually the best member of the Archery club before Shinji forced him out. Quote:
Quote:
I'm not too familiar with marble phantasm, someone else? Last edited by iamandragon; 2008-04-16 at 11:50. |
|||||||||||||
2008-04-16, 15:01 | Link #1753 | |||
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A Reality Marble is limited to one aspect, while a Marble Phantasm can have multiple depending on how the user contorts the world. If I've interpreted it incorrectly, then feel free to correct me. |
|||
2008-04-17, 07:27 | Link #1755 | |
Lord of Blades
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 33
|
O.k in the Unlimited Blade Works route shirou broke gilgamesh with the same noble phantasm as gilgamesh. Can archer does the same but to other servant?? And if the servant is out of NP he will fight barehanded right?
Spoiler for Fate Zero:
If gilgamesh uses gate of babylon for a long time then and defeat that servant and fought another servant will the NP in gate of Babylon replenished? Is Illya from a noble familiy? Her name does sound like noble. Quote:
|
|
2008-04-17, 11:24 | Link #1756 | |||||
Martian diplomat
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
2008-04-19, 07:49 | Link #1757 | ||||
Lord of Blades
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 33
|
Quote:
Quote:
Which makes me want to ask another question does all Berserker noble phantasm got something to do with their own body?? Quote:
If he can do it fast in melee combat its possible. The servant jumps up or rush towards archer only to find their Noble phantasm to be broken at the last second by archer traced noble phantasm. Spoiler for FSN Manga:
Quote:
Is it possible for archer to trace Gilgamesh's Enkidu?? Will saber be affected by Rider petrification eyes? Also is there another way to prevent oneself from turning into stone?? In heaven's feel shirou does an ultimate killing move against dark saber which causes his brain fried... Will the same thing happened to archer if he tried it against another servant?? And how strong is it this ultimate killing move?? |
||||
2008-04-19, 21:16 | Link #1758 | |||||||||
Martian diplomat
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||
2008-04-20, 01:32 | Link #1759 | ||||
Lord of Blades
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 33
|
Quote:
Quote:
Then again i'm saying this by referring the UBW route in which Gilgamesh shoots down his Noble phantasm and shirou cancels it out with his own copies. Quote:
Quote:
The fuyuki said something about projection is completely useless in combat... so projection is intended for normal everyday uses?? Alteration... Did shirou or archer ever uses this in the 3 routes of Fate Stay Night?? |
||||
2008-04-20, 07:33 | Link #1760 | |||||||
Martian diplomat
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||
|
|