Code Geass R2 - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But Zero's capabilities were never in doubt. Everyone, including his enemies, respect those.

Regardless people still question Zero's actions. Even the knights admitted about being used as Zero's pawns but Ougi and Toudo stood firm with Zero so who can they argue?

And besides, that's only half of it. The other half is proving himself which he has so that is already taken care which brings me to the previous point about whether or not Nunnally can demonstrate that she's capable of handling such a big job.

If she can do it, then her subordinates will have credibility to back them in supporting her much as Ougi and Toudo have.

[Bloodseeker]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Considering that the second season of Code Geass basically takes us back to where we begun, wouldn't you say that the status quo overall as such has more or less remained unchanged?

So the whole thing with Lelouch being trapped under the watch of a surveillance team and having to hide the fact that his memories have returned, Nunally being in the hands of the enemy and being used against Lelouch, Rollo's involvement, and Suzaku's change in roles doesn't count as a changes to the status quo?

Just because he needs to rebuild the Black Knights doesn't mean that the status quo is the same as it was in the middle of last season.

[nexocentric]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

This is my greatest fear as far as CG goes: that it becomes just a cash cow for sunrise/CLAMP...

There are a lot of ways to make something a cash cow without sacrificing quality "completely" you will have to make some quality sacrifice, but you don't have to throw it out the window. A semi-good example would be the gundam series. They may finish the gundam series and replace it with Code geass. They've created a whole world with CG and could do a lot with it. A universe overtaken by america (f*** yeah!!!!!!! Should totally be the new national anthem of the USA) ?!

Anyway, you can do a lot with that story line. For example, Lelouch totally fixes everything becomes the most powerful geass holder, and because he's such a powerful and good leader people decide to have him become the next emperor. And then he refuses to go off and enjoy life with his brother and best friend. You might be able to do something with that. Or you could have time pass and have the characters age?! Like another anime Which was awesome!!

Anyway we could speculate about how they could turn this into a cash cow without totally sacrificing quality all day, but we do have to remember a good anything is going to be made to make money. That's life. Corporations exist to make money. If they didn't they couldn't pay their employees. The anime industry is no different. You raise a calf, fatten it up, prostitute it out, and then bucher it for every cent/yen it's worth. Hide, tounge, stomach, entrails, EVERYTHING.

Let's just hope that CG doesn't go the path of Macross.......

[Bloodseeker]

Man, what is it with Code Geass threads? Its rare that a Code Geass discussion that extends beyond "fap fap fap" doesn't get on my nerves.

If its not some idiot trying to explain how Lelouch is even more evil than Light using selective memory and flawed logic to justify it, then its people bashing the show in order to increase their e-peen or (in animesuki's case) complaining about the show's drop in quality when there hasn't been one.

[Maes Hughes]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

One bloody school life episode and it seems Zero's Britannian fans () are up in arms.

Since the capital of Britannia is America and the UK is under the EEU(?), you're more of a Britannian than I'll ever be.

And, at the risk of sounding like an old record, I haven't been wowed by S2 in general; not just this episode. It looks like it's this episode alone that's caused me to be negative simply because I rarely post on AS, preferring to post on NarutoFAN due to AS being run like a prison forum at times.

With regards to your slowness comment (and, once again, at the risk of sounding like an old record), people who say S2 has been slow feel that way because the memory reset has took the series back to square one. Although the non-filler episodes have moved quite fast, there's been no real progress since Lelouch has been retreading old ground.

[removed by a moderator]

[nines]

hmm im kinda of curious if V.V gave Rollo his geass and why zero wont ask C.C to give kallen a geass

[nexocentric]

Originally Posted by nutype

It's great CG has a 2nd season but at least for me I wouldn't mind just another 5 or so episodes to finish s1 than something retarded like suzaku's spinkick and starting all over.

Yeah, five eps would have been enough, but then you wouldn't get new characters, and tributes to old skool 2d fighters like street fighter!

I was going to say how everyone was just being too hard on Suzaku, and they should give him what little he has... but.... after watching it in slow mo....The spin kick is truly ridiculous.

[Kusaja]

In the interests of keeping this relatively brief, I focused on just five points.

Originally Posted by Maes Hughes

Sunrise are focusing too much on raising the popularity and too little on making S2 as high quality as possible. The increased fan service and Ashford sillyness shows how the people in charge at Sunrise are thinking quite clearly.

Now that is fair point, that Sunrise may prefer to increase the show's popularity even if that reduces the show's maximum potential quality. I can agree.

However, I don't think that doing that is taking us in a wrong direction right now, and I'm willing to let them build things up, not just in terms of characterization but overall plot, even if there is a superficial repeat or referencing of certain season one developments along the way...in a different context, as I do see it.

Moving onto the last part of your paragraph, where would you have preferred Sunrise to have ended S1?

Me? Several ideas come to mind. I actually think the cliffhanger at the end of 23 was superior, so something similar would work, but I suppose they could have ended the show with a defeated Lelouch being taken to the Emperor by Suzaku...or even, if there was enough time, showing him losing his memories. Controversial, but more interesting and less openly annoying than what we got.

I'm hoping Sunrise plan to focus on her personality later on - They still have the story about her brother to tell, so there is hope.

That's part of it, and I would say that the whole trust issue could also involve her, not just the Black Knights who expressed doubts. Those teasing bits between her and Lelouch can be seen as fanservice-y, but they could also have another use, romantic or otherwise.

In the end, they decided to go with the option that allowed them to repeat S1; a memory loss and story reset. The reasoning? Less work required, less originality and newbie friendliness.

I would say that the story is only a partial repeat and reset. Even at this point the context is quite different and can certainly branch out further. A complete duplication would be pointless.

The opening seems to show lots of ships moving towards Japan (the part where Lelouch is on a horse). Going on that, it's very possible that we won't be leaving Japan this season and the fighting could well all still be taking place on Japanese soil come EP25.

There's no way Sunrise will want to end a popular series unless they're forced.

Sunrise / Code Geass / Taniguchi openings hint at future developments or themes, but they also change over time. I'd expect this one to change somewhat by Turn 8 or so, before assuming too much about the current opening.

I was thinking that the conquest of Japan may turn out to be unnecessary, if certain things play out differently or if Lelouch is able to side step the issue and take the battle to Britannia through Chinese aid or what have you. Or it may actually happen earlier than we think, for all we know (nothing).

I expect Lelouch's main story arc to be essentially over this season. There are other stories that could be told in the Code Geass universe, as either sequels or prequels, but this isn't Gundam. Not every successful series needs endless spin-offs.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Bloodseeker

So the whole thing with Lelouch being trapped under the watch of a surveillance team and having to hide the fact that his memories have returned, Nunally being in the hands of the enemy and being used against Lelouch, Rollo's involvement, and Suzaku's change in roles doesn't count as a changes to the status quo?

Just because he needs to rebuild the Black Knights doesn't mean that the status quo is the same as it was in the middle of last season.

Point well taken, but even if the enemies start with a somewhat greater advantage this season, we're still back at about the same point the previous series ended, with neither side truly having made any progress, as one might say. Of course, hopefully that status quo will be broken off fast enough in this season...

Originally Posted by nexocentric

There are a lot of ways to make something a cash cow without sacrificing quality "completely" you will have to make some quality sacrifice, but you don't have to throw it out the window. A semi-good example would be the gundam series. They may finish the gundam series and replace it with Code geass. They've created a whole world with CG and could do a lot with it. A universe overtaken by america (f*** yeah!!!!!!! Should totally be the new national anthem of the USA) ?!

Anyway, you can do a lot with that story line. For example, Lelouch totally fixes everything becomes the most powerful geass holder, and because he's such a powerful and good leader people decide to have him become the next emperor. And then he refuses to go off and enjoy life with his brother and best friend. You might be able to do something with that. Or you could have time pass and have the characters age?! Like another anime Which was awesome!!

I suppose you're right about that - not all cash cows become complete failures upon becoming cash cows . Code Geass "replacing" Gundam? Well.. Why not, I suppose? Though if so I sure hope to see some new storylines, sorta... Hmm, if CG becomes the new Gundam, would Lelouch be the "new" Char Aznable, maybe?

Originally Posted by nexocentric

Anyway we could speculate about how they could turn this into a cash cow without totally sacrificing quality all day, but we do have to remember a good anything is going to be made to make money. That's life. Corporations exist to make money. If they didn't they couldn't pay their employees. The anime industry is no different. You raise a calf, fatten it up, prostitute it out, and then bucher it for every cent/yen it's worth. Hide, tounge, stomach, entrails, EVERYTHING.

Let's just hope that CG doesn't go the path of Macross.......

I suppose you have a point there. Well, I'm not familiar with Macross, so no idea how big of a failure it is (althorugh I've heard people complain about it)...

[nexocentric]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

I expect Lelouch's main story arc to be essentially over this season.

I'm totally with you here. Lelouch's story will pretty much end here.

Originally Posted by Kusaja

There are other stories that could be told in the Code Geass universe, as either sequels or prequels, but this isn't Gundam. Not every successful series needs endless spin-offs.

I totally agree with you here too, but this is a Bandai production. They have huge mechs in this... that equals plastic models, and lots of money for bandai and a probable partner in crime Tamiya, a model paint company. WE don't need spin-offs, but they on the other hand.... They've started making a few models for the CG series, with more to come...

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by nexocentric

I'm totally with you here. Lelouch's story will pretty much end here.



I totally agree with you here too, but this is a Bandai production. They have huge mechs in this... that equals plastic models, and lots of money for bandai and a probable partner in crime Tamiya, a model paint company. WE don't need spin-offs, but they on the other hand.... They've started making a few models for the CG series, with more to come...

Director Tanaguchi pretty much said this would be the end of the series so I don't think any of us have to worry for a repeat or spin-off, it isn't in keeping with what he's done with his other works either >_>

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Director Tanaguchi pretty much said this would be the end of the series so I don't think any of us have to worry for a repeat or spin-off, it isn't in keeping with what he's done with his other works either >_>

Hmm, where does he say that?

[nexocentric]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Code Geass "replacing" Gundam? Well.. Why not, I suppose? Though if so I sure hope to see some new storylines, sorta... Hmm, if CG becomes the new Gundam, would Lelouch be the "new" Char Aznable, maybe?

Lelouch the new Char! I could see it... in some ways. But Lelouch has the athletic ability of a 70 year old... He can't pilot a nightmare frame with out C.C there. But we can forgive him and give him Char's throne!

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

I suppose you have a point there. Well, I'm not familiar with Macross, so no idea how big of a failure it is (althorugh I've heard people complain about it)...

The first season was really good, and then after that it went spin kick crazy.. so to say... If you like watching any an every anime known to man though, it's not bad at all.

[nexocentric]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Director Tanaguchi pretty much said this would be the end of the series so I don't think any of us have to worry for a repeat or spin-off, it isn't in keeping with what he's done with his other works either >_>

What other stuff has he done? I'm kind of interested.

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Director Tanaguchi pretty much said this would be the end of the series so I don't think any of us have to worry for a repeat or spin-off, it isn't in keeping with what he's done with his other works either >_>

If he did, then that's quite good. I wouldn't mind some other story in this same universe, as long as it's different enough to work independently and not simply trying to stretch things out forever, but at least Lelouch's tale (and most of the characters around him) shouldn't need anything more after this.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Hmm, where does he say that?

Uhh, I heard it from Dann, he likes to follow up on this stuff apparently. I once voiced my own concern that we wouldn't have enough time to wrap things up fast enough and thought about perhaps getting an OVA or movie, and this is the answer I got from him. Strange how that's turned around and now he's the one worried about the pacing instead of me... >_>

What other stuff has he done? I'm kind of interested.

Here's a link if you're interested

Originally Posted by Kusaja

If he did, then that's quite good. I wouldn't mind some other story in this same universe, as long as it's different enough to work independently and not simply trying to stretch things out forever, but at least Lelouch's tale (and most of the characters around him) shouldn't need anything more after this.

True, I liked some of the variations on Gundam myself. But honestly though, how many times do you have to crush Zeon before they stay down?

[Maes Hughes]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

Sunrise / Code Geass / Taniguchi openings hint at future developments or themes, but they also change over time. I'd expect this one to change somewhat by Turn 8 or so, before assuming too much about the current opening.

I was thinking that the conquest of Japan may turn out to be unnecessary, if certain things play out differently or if Lelouch is able to side step the issue and take the battle to Britannia through Chinese aid or what have you. Or it may actually happen earlier than we think, for all we know (nothing).

I expect Lelouch's main story arc to be essentially over this season. There are other stories that could be told in the Code Geass universe, as either sequels or prequels, but this isn't Gundam. Not every successful series needs endless spin-offs.

It's interesting that Taniguchi was behind both Gun x Sword and s-CRY-ed: I dropped s-CRY-ed after the most amateur death scene I've seen, my opinion being that it's a very, very poor anime. Gun x Sword, on the other hand, can only be viewed by me as a decent series by me.

Returning to Code Geass, I'm going to go with my instinct and assume the story won't be over come EP50. If you were in the shoes of Sunrise, would you end a cash cow when more money can be gotten out of another 25 episode series? It would be silly for them to end it now when they've already proven with S2 that they care more about ratings than they do about quality.

If we're still in Japan near the end, Sunrise can easily produce another 25 episodes focusing on Zero's war on a more worldwide scale.

My guess: If S2 is going to copy S1 all the way, I believe Nunnally will die similar to how Euphy did and Lelouch's transformation into Light will be complete. With Nunnally out of the way, I can easily see Lelouch being ruthless, going more and more out of control as his bid to conquer Britannia for the sake of power alone drives his personal war against his father to the point the entire world is involved.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Maes Hughes

It's interesting that Taniguchi was behind both Gun x Sword and s-CRY-ed: I dropped s-CRY-ed after the most amateur death scene I've seen, my opinion being that it's a very, very poor anime. Gun x Sword, on the other hand, can only be viewed by me as a decent series by me.

Returning to Code Geass, I'm going to go with my instinct and assume the story won't be over come EP50. If you were in the shoes of Sunrise, would you end a cash cow when more money can be gotten out of another 25 episode series? It would be silly for them to end it now when they've already proven with S2 that they care more about ratings than they do about quality.

If we're still in Japan near the end, Sunrise can easily produce another 25 episodes focusing on Zero's war on the a worldwide scale.

My guess: If S2 is going to copy S1 all the way, I believe Nunnally will die similar to how Euphy did and Lelouch's transformation into Light will be complete. With Nunnally out of the way, I can easily see Lelouch being ruthless, going more and more out of control as his bid to conquer Britannia for the sake of power alone drives his personal war against his father to the point the entire world is involved.

Uhhh sorry, 50 episodes planned out from the director since the beginning Maes. The first 25 were to see if they could keep the series on the air, R2 and a 50 episode limit was planned since the beginning by Tanaguchi. Focus on general plot line instead of the superficial stuff honestly. [removed by a moderator]

[nexocentric]

So it looks like all the series that he's directed have ended. Cool!

But there's always a chance, based on ratings and everything. Money talks, but if he's the cool one that's like I'll make a DIFFERENT series, but this one has ended. More power to him.

Is bandai going to continue doing the, new series, end in the middle, start a different series end that in the middle cycle for ratings? It's a good marketing strategy, but... I don't think my nerves could handle it!!!!! I've watched the end of 00 over 40 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!! And the end of CG season 1 about 15....

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by nexocentric

So it looks like all the series that he's directed have ended. Cool!

But there's always a chance, based on ratings and everything. Money talks, but if he's the cool one that's like I'll make a DIFFERENT series, but this one has ended. More power to him.

Is bandai going to continue doing the, new series, end in the middle, start a different series end that in the middle cycle for ratings? It's a good marketing strategy, but... I don't think my nerves could handle it!!!!! I've watched the end of 00 over 40 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!! And the end of CG season 1 about 15....

Apparently he is pretty cool so I doubt they'll change it from his original plan, they've never managed to do so before hand... >_>

No idea, though Bandai will have to do it without Code Geass I guess