[Jap-Manga] Claymore Statistics, Power Levels, and Theories

[chibamonster]

The organization has done all the experimenting for some reason. As Miria said, even Alicia and Beth are not battle ready and Riful accepts Alicia as an Abyssal. This means there is more to come, and we already know defeating Priscilla would take 2 Abyssals so there is a higher possibility of power already available in the world of Claymore.

The organization is doing this research for some reason; Whether it is to battle a more powerful opponent, for world domination, to save mankind from the monsters they previously created, find a key to immortality, or for some other reason we do not know. But if Miria's information is correct and the island is there to create and control AB's we still have yet to learn WHY the organization needs these AB's. There will be a reason that will appear at some point. And really, if Miria's information is correct (and I know Fenrir would believe Miria ) the power struggle that is going on right now already seems less important.

New information casts heavy shadows on actions of the past. For instance if Clare had known about partial awakening earlier would she have killed Elena? There are many things the characters do that are not the best choice but is about as good as they can do with the information they have. This world of Claymore is not fair.

[yezhanquan]

Information is power, and in the world of Claymore, whoever pieces together the puzzle will be the final victor. Riful is searching for pieces, while Miria is still trying to convince the Ghosts and Galatea to join in the puzzle hunting with her (She seems to be pretty successful.). Isley seems contented to sit out the competition for now, while the other side has no movement that we know of.

[Fenrir_valindri]

The only reason Alicia/Beth are considered successful is the fact that Beth is too vulnerable for Alicia's power to be deployed on a battlefield, not because she lacks power.

This indicates that Alicia is powerful enough for the job the Organization wants her to perform, she just isn't as "safe" as the Organization wants their super weapon to be.

Experimenting can lead to unexpected results, and the Organization seems to be full of scientists; they will keep looking for better and more efficient means to produce a weapon, even if the one they have is more then powerful enough.

[chibamonster]

@yezhanquan: I like your comment about the information battle. Isley won because he discovered Priscilla first, got her on his side, and kept Priscilla's strength hidden from Riful. The organization has more secrets as well.

Whatever the reason is behind the organizations experimentation, they are still doing it indicating that even Alicia, with her incredible battle strength, is not what they need. The 11 AB's Alicia slaughtered were not a risk for Alicia but Miria knows that the organization has something more in mind as Alicia is not battle ready. If the MiB's are still working to get something better it seems to indicate that they need a weapon that does not have the risks. If anything that indicates a larger and more dangerous goal. Even if it is just to kill off the Abyssals I think the larger world view means larger world danger. Really the Abyssals will probably kill themselves off through their battles. And as long as the Abyssals are not declaring war on the organization they are little more threat than the plague of youma that exist on the land.

The org must need AB's for some purpose. If Claymores were strong enough to do what was needed then they could have finished the project long ago. Cloaked Raphaela or Priscilla would be strong enough to handle just about anything, especially if they worked together or Teresa was with them. But for some reason the organization wants awakened beings that have tapped fully into their youki reserve. Cloaking a strong claymore will keep them from awakening and as the ghosts/raphaela/Priscilla show they can still be very strong. An all star team of top Claymores would be a match for anyone but the organization wants something else for some purpose. I think the purpose will be more than just having the perfect weapon to just have it. I am not sure what the org's goal is, but I think it will be a twist.

[Fenrir_valindri]

The Organization sees AB as the height of power that a hybrid can achieve; sure Raphaela and Priscilla could have delt with most anything when full trained; but imagine how much stronger they would be if they were awakened?


They will keep experimenting because they want more powerful weapons. The U.S. has the strongest military of any single nation, but we still keep developing our weapons technology; because we want to stay ahead in the tech-war and keep our position.

Alicia/Beth are easily powerful enough for what the Organization has in mind, but they are not without a weakness, and that is a weakness they want to eliminate.

It is only natural to want to minimize ones weaknesses.

[nekowai]

Information is power indeed...lets tell miria to fight with books now on

[chibamonster]

@Fenrir: I don't buy that the organization just wants a perfect weapon because... then it would be perfect. I think they have reasons and a purpose. I mean we have already seen the DoD's. They are not just going to disappear. They will grow in importance like every other theme in Claymore (swords, pills, partial awakening, youki manipulation, etc). The DoD's are now a part of the story and we know there is another faction who had monsters worthy of creating AB's to defeat. Mentioning a tech or arms race to get a better weapon makes sense, but that would mean having an opponent to compete with.

If Claymores were powerful enough to achieve the organizations purpose then they probably would have used them for it. Sure the claymores would be stronger if they awakened but if there are no enemies that required that level of strength why bother? If it is like nuclear development in an arms race, really you do not need more destructive power than has already been researched. Fun Fact: making exponentially larger nuclear bombs did not create an exponentially larger damage footprint because most of the blast and heat rose to the stratosphere. So they came up with a different solution: multiple warheads. Smaller nuclear bombs that would blanket an area together fixing the problem. A team of Claymores like Teresa, Priscilla and Raphaela could lay waste to countries. Unless they met a worthy opponent somewhere along the way.

I think Miria has opened a door to the outside world for the story possibilities. Anyway, it is about time that we find the Akatsuki or the Arrancar/Vizards for Claymore .

@Nekowai: Librarian Miria. You might be onto something.

[Fenrir_valindri]

The Organization ARE looking for the perfect weapon, hence their pursuit of a controllable AB; by Miria's story. The Hybrids were SUPPOSED to Awaken to fight the DoD; which indicates the DoD are at a level above the average hybrid, but below or at the average level of an AB. We even have a picture of one AB fighting multiple DoD.

From what we saw; the Organization considered AB to be of sufficient strength to handle the DoD, and thus want to pursue the goal of having a controllable AB.

Now they have an immensely powerful #1 that is perfectly controllable, but she has a major weakness in her "weaker" control unit, Beth.

So naturally the Organization now wants to experiment further and eliminate this weakness.

They are experimenting not due to the lack of power or control, but for a lack of weakness in their "super-weapon."



Teresa/Raphaela/Priscilla team would be powerful indeed, and more then sufficient for the task probably, but the major problem is this; control.

They still have their human minds and their own whims, they are not perfectly controllable and thus are flawed. Teresa let her guard down due to mercy, Raphaela was unable to control her sister, and Priscilla was emotionally unstable.

These 3 meet the power requirements of what they desire, but not the "control" aspect and have to many "weaknesses" for the Organizations taste.


The comparison to a nuclear bomb is flawed, because the explosion cannot be controlled in the same way a single creature can be. Sure Nuclear bombs have a lot of power, but they aren't practical for battlefield use.

Much in the same way a uncontrollable AB is not practical for battlefield use.


Not to mention Priscilla/Teresa could be considered "rare" candidates, and are difficult, if not impossible for the Organization to mass produce.

[chibamonster]

Fenrir you just like arguing . I agree with you that they are trying to make a controllable AB. We know that. I just think they are doing it with an absolute purpose in mind and that the outside world will come knocking on the plot. Having an ultimate weapon without a plan to use it is stupid and does not move the story at all.

MiB1: We completed Jade, an Abyssal who can awaken and return without the flaws of a soul link!
MiB2: Great!... What do we do now?
MiB1: I had not thought about that. Hmmm. Let's go play world of warcraft.
Jade: What is thy bidding master?
MiB2: Put on this maids outfit...

I could have sworn that 2 AO's fighting annihilated the landscape they were fighting for... like a nuclear bomb . A controlled AO is a weapon and weapons have targets. Where a group of Claymores could probably annihilate an army an AO, even a controlled one, is a weapon of mass destruction who could level towns, cities and even countries if told to. Like Misato Kusanagi said in Evangelion, "Private control over 3 eva units. If you wanted to you could take over the world..." World domination is a perfect reason to create the ultimate AO, I just think Claymore is more complex than that. I think the organization may actually be doing a good thing in the midst of the terror they inflict. I do not think the organization is just doing this experiment because they can.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Yes, I do like arguing


But their purpose is already clear, they want to defeat the opposing side.

Just because Alicia/Beth aren't being deployed to the front does not mean they are not powerful enough though, as you have implied.

They want a weapon without weakness (or at least without a glaring one like Alicia/Beth)

They seem to be quite sure that Alicia/Beth are up to the task power-wise, but Miria points out the very obvious weakness of the pair.

Defeating the enemy is the obvious immediate goal behind creating AB, and their primary enemy controls the monstrous DoD, who have power close to that of an (average) AB. It doesn't seem like the DoD are necessarily low in number either (unlike AB)

Of course, world Domination wouldn't be much harder after defeating the DoD, considering that was probably the DoD's goal by conquering other nations.

-----

and yes, and AO can demolish an area it fights in, but a nuclear bomb would still cause more uncontrollable destruction.

The only reason the landscape where Isley and Lucalea fought got demolished was because it was two AO fighting each other. If it was an AO vs DoD I imagine the fight will be much more on-sided, and thus result in much less collateral damage.

Look at Rigaldo or Priscilla, they wouldn't absolutely demolish the area while fighting, at least not unless they were fighting an opponent of power equal to or greater then their own.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by chibamonster

@Nekowai: Librarian Miria. You might be onto something.

I personally think of Miria as the lore mistress.

[chibamonster]

@yezhanquan: I am not sure what a lore mistress is but I am imagining Miria with a wardrobe of cosplay outfits acting out stories. That or having a pad of paper she carries around with her to illustrate her points like Rukia from Bleach.

Something that popped into my mind: I have a friend whose mother responds to things in an incredibly interesting way; she always disagrees with you. A while back I tested to see how deep set her responses were. I think the topic of discussion was the ending to the third new star wars movie. So first I said it was great to see her response. She vehemently disagreed and told me it was awful in every conceivable way. I changed the subject to something else and a few minutes later decided to try the opposite approach and said how awful the ending was. She immediately started thinking of reasons it was good. It was almost like her conversation and personality was defined by her reaction to what others said as opposed to being what she really thought. I can't remember exactly why I typed out this story now that I am here, but anyway...

@Fenrir: I think that the organizations work on developing AB's is a reaction to something in the outside world beyond what has been seen with the DoD's because that would point the story towards something major as opposed to sweeping Miria's new revelations under the carpet.

Clare: monsters in the outside world... what does all this mean?!
Miria: Don't worry about it. They are weak as can be compared to AB's so they will not impact this story much and things will get back to the way they always were.
Clare: Phew, for a second there I thought we had a plot development.
Miria: Rofl.

The DoD's might be the equivalent to youma in the real world. I just do not think we are done learning about the monsters that lurk in the outside world. I think Miria's revelation is the tip of the iceburg for the information war.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by chibamonster

@yezhanquan: I am not sure what a lore mistress is but I am imagining Miria with a wardrobe of cosplay outfits acting out stories. That or having a pad of paper she carries around with her to illustrate her points like Rukia from Bleach.

Well, I'm not sure if you've heard of the term "lore master". I'm sure you know the meaning of "lore", so I won't go there.

Miria with glasses. Now, we are getting started.

And yes, more info on the other side.

[Stream]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Just because Alicia/Beth aren't being deployed to the front does not mean they are not powerful enough though, as you have implied.

They want a weapon without weakness (or at least without a glaring one like Alicia/Beth)

They seem to be quite sure that Alicia/Beth are up to the task power-wise, but Miria points out the very obvious weakness of the pair.

Alicia and Beth have been MIA for quite some time. For all we know, they are deployed to the front-lines (or to whoever funded/whatever the project on the mainland). Just thought I should point this out.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Thought of that myself, but I find it unlikely that the Organization would leave itself exposed to the Abyssal Ones by sending Alicia/Beth far away from them.

They need them to safeguard themselves now that the Abyssal Ones have become more active.

[FateAnomaly]

I think the org would have developed more weapons in the 7 years. Maybe clones of alicia and beth where they all can soul link.

[chibamonster]

I think that the organization is only the research and development branch of a war machine that is still in operation. They certainly had AB's who were not on the island. They mystery of what monsters exist outside the island could definitely disrupt the balance of power.

Clare: Then we need to get off the island and find out what is going on!
Miria: No, we have to stay on the island.
Clare: Why?
Miria: The island wants us to stay.
Clare: What are you talking about? Is she ... talking to the island?
(Hurley) Helen: What is going on? Ooh, snickers bars... nom nom nom.
Miria: We crashed on this island for a reason Clare! There was a reason we were all on Oceanic flight 815! The Dharma Initiative wanted some...
Clare: Miria, have you been watching LOST, coming up with your own theories and confusing them with reality?
Miria: ... There was nothing else to watch in the North and Yuma bought the boxed set...

<If only LOST had a cohesive plot...>

[Ryuken]

Originally Posted by chibamonster

I think that the organization is only the research and development branch of a war machine that is still in operation. They certainly had AB's who were not on the island. They mystery of what monsters exist outside the island could definitely disrupt the balance of power.

Clare: Then we need to get off the island and find out what is going on!
Miria: No, we have to stay on the island.
Clare: Why?
Miria: The island wants us to stay.
Clare: What are you talking about? Is she ... talking to the island?
(Hurley) Helen: What is going on? Ooh, snickers bars... nom nom nom.
Miria: We crashed on this island for a reason Clare! There was a reason we were all on Oceanic flight 815! The Dharma Initiative wanted some...
Clare: Miria, have you been watching LOST, coming up with your own theories and confusing them with reality?
Miria: ... There was nothing else to watch in the North and Yuma bought the boxed set...

<If only LOST had a cohesive plot...>

That was good. The "Lost" touch was nice.

[yezhanquan]

Yuma: Well, it was Miria who wanted to watch something!! *sulks*

[Enara]

hmm. I took didn't take miara for a lost fan.