2008-07-01, 07:39 | Link #1621 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Where I've encountered なにおう? or the like has been in manga, and how it was explained to me is that this is 何を言っている or similar - What did you say?!, usually in surprise. Oh, and in the particular manga where I first encountered it, the speaker was a guy.
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2008-07-01, 11:20 | Link #1622 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.
Age: 38
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I think I hear (like with my girl friends) "なによ" a lot,
as in " Whhhhhat?", followed by some lame excuse when I accuse them of borrowing my clothes without asking. I thought よ sort of acted like an exclamation mark (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, I've rarely (if ever???) seen it written as "なにおう" in the mangas I've read, as far as I can tell. |
2008-07-01, 23:09 | Link #1623 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Hi. I'm new.
I took 3 semesters of jap class in UNLV (Las Vegas). This year I am not taking JPN class due to core major classes that I need to take care of... I'll probably buy intermediate JPN book (Youkoso 2) for self-study and maybe take intermediate jap in my senior year. To retain my knowledge, I'm reading some expired copyright novel online called オシャベリ姫 (o-shaberi hime) http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000096...932_21785.html It's got pretty straight-forward grammar imo. Pretty useful for me since I only have 3 semesters of study When I encounter an unfamiliar kanji, I simply use... rikaichan and Wakan |
2008-07-02, 04:41 | Link #1624 | ||
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Quote:
平井君 (ひらい くん) は なんで 雑貨店 (ざっかてん) に 行(い)った? seems a bit better, unless there is a particular context. For example, suppose there were two persons there. Either Hirai or the other had to go to the store, and Hirai took the duty. Then you ask "why Hirai?"; why not the other person? In such a situation, you should say ひらい くん が なんで~ because your emphasis is on the person, not the action. Quote:
The wording is stiff yet, so you need enrich the vocabulary. でも おもしろく なかった can be a better alternative. |
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2008-07-02, 11:14 | Link #1625 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 35
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Thanks for the reply again but I don't know if I would go that far. Anyway, can somebody explain how "no, noda, nda" is used at the end of a sentence to create an explanatory tone? Aren't you explaining every time you answer a question somebody asks? Unless it's a yes/no question or something. Would you ever use it in a declarative sentence when nobody has asked a question? I guess I just don't understand the situations that it is used in.
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2008-07-02, 18:43 | Link #1627 | |
Toyosaki Aki
Scanlator
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Example: A: B-さん、どうして最近学校に来なかったかい? (B-san, doushite saikin gakkou ni konakatta kai?) B: 病気だったんです。 (Byouki dattan desu.) Hopefully, the grammar isn't butchered beyond comprehension. In any case, you can see that this is a question and answer exchange. A question is posed on B by A, and B answers with a statement plus "ん" to imply that this is the answer to his/her question.
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2008-07-02, 21:37 | Link #1628 | |
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richvh and tripperazn explained gracefully.
Quote:
ヤス が 犯人 (はんにん) だった の か。 僕(ぼく) が 一番 (いちばん) うまく ガンダム を つかえる ん だ。 ボンカレー は どう 作 (つく) って も うまい の だ。 |
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2008-07-04, 19:02 | Link #1629 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: イギリスだったり、ミャン
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Quote:
I've never really understood why certain "emotional" verbs are preceded by "ga", while others are preceded by "wo". For example: 君が好きだよ。 (I like you) 君を好き is wrong. Why? あなたを愛してる。 (I love you) あなたが愛してる is wrong, and the listener probably expects continuation (あなたが愛してる者は誰?) 君が欲しい (I want you!) 君を欲しい is wrong. Why? And also, I think それが分かる (I know that) is correct, while それを分かる is wrong, but not sure about this one. ぜんぜん知らないもん! |
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2008-07-04, 19:18 | Link #1630 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 35
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Well, I believe in your 1st and 3rd examples, "suki" and "hoshii" are not actually verbs so the direct object particle would be incorrect. I will let somebody with more than a week of japanese experience answer that though for sure though
EDIT: And for your other issue I think this is the answer: Quote:
Last edited by bungmonkey; 2008-07-05 at 09:31. |
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2008-07-04, 20:24 | Link #1631 |
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bungmonkey has a good point. Think in this way: each of すき (likable), わかる (understandable) or ほしい (desirable) signifies a condition, whereas あい する (love) is rather an emotional action.
I don't know native English speakers can grasp the sense. But you feel "wanter" "liker" and "knower" as somehow unnatural even in English, while "lover" is quite common. |
2008-07-05, 07:53 | Link #1632 | |
Honyaku no Hime
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
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Quote:
And to take 'hoshi' as an i adj as it takes the same grammatical structure as those. And as with the use of adjectives in japanese, we don't use the particle 'wo' so it made sense just to stick with 'ga' Another example being 'onaka ga tsuita' - but i learnt that as a phrase for 'im hungry' rather than trying to break down why the verb 'tsuku' didn't have a 'wo'. Since we were at uni and newbies, we didn't question it, we just learnt it. Infact, until i read your post, i didn't realise that someone would approach and see them as 'verbs' - i guess that's looking at it from an english sense; In my head, it's kinda programmed to treat them as adjectives when communciating in japanese, lol. Wakaru is the use of 'ga' (irregular example) - our teacher said just to accept it and not question it. (as in find the linguistic history as to who made that decision and why that descision was made, lol) I kinda agree with her, there are some things in english and japanese that have zero link, relation, sense or logic to it. Make like a child and simply absorb and use correctly, makes things less mentally painful
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2008-07-05, 11:58 | Link #1634 | |
Honyaku no Hime
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
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Quote:
sono kotoba wo naratta bakkari da (i've just learnt it), is a common phrase i tend to informally use often, anytime i learn something new and confirm that i get it and that I'd never known about it before. But you can use 'wakarimashita/ wakatta' to imply that you understand what you've just learnt too, in the ways that we say in english sometimes 'Ah, I get it.' Better to use 'wakarimashita' to your teacher when in class. As you'll eventually learn with Japanese, there are different words meaning the same thing to suitably use in different situations depending on the context of what is going on, who you're speaking to, where you are and so on; you'll eventually begin to gain a sense of what to use where and when with who. 知る 【しる】 (v5r) to know, to understand, to be acquainted with, to feel, (P) That one to me is merely stating whether a person is mentally aware of somethng. I don't know that person. I didn't know. I didn't realise/ wasn't aware of that. NB: to say 'i know/ i'm aware' is usually said/written in the present progressive tense: 知っていますか?- Do you know him? 知っている!- I do! (tho i'm pondering on 御存知ますか(gozonjimasu ka) - which is normal present tense, should look that up someday...) To continue from LiberLibri's explaination of 'like' + 'want' vs 'love' Basically, the wo particle is used when an action is done directly to a object. So to 'want' or 'like' something is a desire, it's a feeling, it's abstract - it's not an actual physical action like eating, swimming or reading, hence they're treated like adjectives. To 'understand' is also just as abstract, when you understand something, a "penny may drop" or an invisible lightbulb may shine above your head (tho that's considered a eureka moment, lol) but nothing actually happens to an object right that minute. Why it isn't then treated as na adjective? Take it up with the creators of this language,lol. It's just an irregularity i guess to accept as much as in English we have: I see, I saw, I have seen. I come, I came, I have come. I look, I looked, I have looked. (actually english is even worse for non logical grammar rules, i feel for learners....) Then the question you may ask is 'isn't love abstract and a feeling too?' Yep, but love is deeper i guess? Basically the term 'aisuru' or 'aishiteiru' (I love you) - at least to me is really really intense. You may hear on anime often, teens tossing a lot of 'suki da!' or "daisuki' - which some translators translate as 'i love you' - it can be translated as that, but it's not regarded as.... hmm... absolute? (for lack of a better word) I can go 'sono hon ga daisuki da!' - I really luuuuuuurve that book! For lovers to whisper 'aishiteru' to each other is like: *swoon* love as in, marriage, family, wanna be with you for life and im 110% serious bout it kinda thing, lol. I rarely hear the verb aisuru used with an object to be honest - but i guess with that concept of love comes the entire, getting married, moving in, having kids etc etc. Perhaps in that sense, it can be considered an action, lol Hard to explain, i can only feel the differences between 'suki' and 'aisuru' - as weird as that may sound, maybe LiberLibri can expand on that better in a logical sense
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Last edited by Mystique; 2008-07-05 at 12:43. |
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2008-07-05, 14:05 | Link #1635 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: イギリスだったり、ミャン
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Thanks bungmonkey, LiberLibri and Mystique. From my understanding, you are saying that the reason for saying 君がすき and あなたを愛してる is that, although "love" is an emotional action, "like" is more of a state of being. I fail to grasp the clear distinction, if any, between 愛する as an action and 好き as a state of being, because I think they could just as well be considered vice-versa.
Like some of you have suggested, a friend of mine who's lived in Japan for 8 years also said that things like these are probably better memorized than reasoned. I think I'll just do that. :P |
2008-07-15, 16:09 | Link #1636 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
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japanese
hi i was wondering it there a way to learn japanese other than the way im doing right now i am use a Japanese audio deluze pack i got from a book store that is about 10 cds and it teaches you a number of thing but i dont think its working because i dont know anymore now than i did before i bought it and i have had it about 2 months so any help would be great and at this point ill try anything.
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2008-07-21, 10:21 | Link #1640 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: East Coast
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Perhaps i should rephrase it as how long did it take people to achieve fluency. i remember i posted in this thread months ago and i only knew 200+ kanji. Im doing Hesig right now and im almost up to 1300 kanji learned. sometimes i think i could be going faster, but im taking it as it comes.
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hiragana |
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