Code Geass R2 - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

What a great episode. Everything was in there and plenty of twists. I feel sad about Shirley because she was gonna become one of the black knight but she got murdered. Rollo probably did not kill Shirley because if he did do it they would've of show it. I got a feeling that Sayoko did it because she probably wanted to protect Lelouch secret.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

When she had a panic attack. A kind of waking nightmare. Though I can't quite call her fears irrational. Whatever else they are, they are killers, murderers, not normal high schoolers.

You can say that again.
I'm telling you Shirley was pretty normal by my standards on the last epi, i know i would freak out like the curious George. XD

That with the masks was a really nice concept though.

[bladeofdarkness]

i just rewatched the ep
i was watching the scene when sherly slaps suzaku upside the head and gets him to leave lulu alone
and then it hit me
what a tragedy sherly's death is
what a truely great loss this is
she might have been clueless in the past
and she might have acted foolishly when it came to lulu and other girls
but what a girl
she picked up that lulu (zero) has something he has to do just by the phone call
and the first thing she does is spot that the greatest problem he faces at the moment is suzaku
she then takes care of the problem without him even saying anything or asking her to
she even picked up on the fact that he and suzaku are not friend anymore and tried to talk suzaku into forgiving him

and all this based soley on her love and belief in lulu
just picture what a powerful ally she could have been if he let her in on the secret
i myself am a kalulu fan and my second choice would be c.c
but even i have to say that sherly could have easlly been the one if he just told her the truth

some might disagree with me when i say this
but i really will miss her a great deal
and i think her death is a tragedy
not just for who she was
but who she could have become if she wasnt killed off in such a way

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya

What a great episode. Everything was in there and plenty of twists. I feel sad about Shirley because she was gonna become one of the black knight but she got murdered. Rollo probably did not kill Shirley because if he did do it they would've of show it. I got a feeling that Sayoko did it because she probably wanted to protect Lelouch secret.

Of course because Sayoko goes around killing anyone that wants to join the Black Knights . Which explains why Lelouch is fighting with an army and not by himself. Nothing Shirley did would reflect letting out Lelouch's secret since Rolo and she already know it.

I'm betting they didn't show Rolo doing it just so people would turn themselves inside out considering all other possibilities. They don't even have to have a plot twist since some will be so sure Rolo didn't do it that if it turns out to be him it will be a twist for them. Besides who wants to see Rolo use his geass and shoot Shirley? Sure it helps for absolutely confirming things, but not exactly a pleasant image.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

some might disagree with me when i say this
but i really will miss her a great deal
and i think her death is a tragedy
not just for who she was
but who she could have become if she wasn't killed off in such a way

I agree its a serious loss and she will be missed. I just hope that the actions she took during her life will at the end of it all leave a positive impact. Even if she can't be with Lelouch the way she wanted can at least leave something good behind.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Of course because Sayoko goes around killing anyone that wants to join the Black Knights . Which explains why Lelouch is fighting with an army and not by himself. Nothing Shirley did would reflect letting out Lelouch's secret since Rolo and she already know it.

Yeah really. Sayoko is NOT a possible choice either. Besides, she doesn't seem to use guns. She uses kunai...<.<'

I'm betting they didn't show Rolo doing it just so people would turn themselves inside out considering all other possibilities. They don't even have to have a plot twist since some will be so sure Rolo didn't do it that if it turns out to be him it will be a twist for them. Besides who wants to see Rolo use his geass and shoot Shirley? Sure it helps for absolutely confirming things, but not exactly a pleasant image.I agree its a serious loss and she will be missed. I just hope that the actions she took during her life will at the end of it all leave a positive impact. Even if she can't be with Lelouch the way she wanted can at least leave something good behind.

I think they didn't show Rolo killing her because it makes the audience go "WTF?!" more if they don't see the crime and go right to her dieing. I think it is more emotional that way myself. But yes, perhaps they are having a big laugh leading some fans on to make them over-analyze things that end up being obvious.

[Kenu]

What a sad episode.

I'm very sad for Shirley, she was such an innocent and sweet girl. She only had pure intentions for Lelouch and a beautiful forgiving heart.

I'm fairly certain it was Rolo who killed Shirley, this will only add to his demise who will be another tragic figure in Lelouch's path of bloodshed.

It was a nice twist, although others saw it coming, to have Orange swear his alliegance to Lelouch.

It's becoming more apparent that Queen Marianna's death was the trigger for many character's development.

My question is, Queen Marianna, was she fully Britannian? I can't quite remember the initial episodes as to why Lelouch was in Japan. Was it for exile or because he was part Japanese like Karen? I think it was simply exile since it would be difficult for Cornelia and Jermiah to admire a non-Britannian.

[Anh_Minh]

She was a knight. Until Suzaku, only Britanians became knights.

You know, some people say she was nice and all, and she certainly was to her children, but considering the kind of persons who admired her (Jeremiah, prominent in the Purist faction, Cornelia, who thought nothing of slaughtering thousands of Elevens to bait Zero...), you have to wonder what kind of person she really was.

[wingdarkness]

At the price of 100 lashings I’ll say Stella x Shinn scene and Wings of Light in the OP FTW//FTL…Sunrise, my friends, aka focus group international^^…I can’t be bothered to read a 1000 posts just one day after the sub was created so I’ll just have to be arrogant and say things that have been said more than twice by now…

Can’t say I didn’t predict this, but when you watch a lot of this type of stuff you’ll often get these type of results…I thought for sure the “jump off the shark building scene” was the red herring right there…Minutes later the mosquitoes flocking around the light on my patio heard me cry “oh $hiiiiiiiiiiiit…” when she picked up the gun confirming my suspicion…You can look how Shirley was dealt with a number of ways, but if I examine the dead skeleton found in this episode, it was clear to me she was killed because, quite honestly, the plot had no more use for her. With the inability to drive the plot in any fashion I said last week she would be pure emotional investment for Lulu’s character and nothing more…Sometimes I hate to be right, but she needed to die to weed-out characters without drive (Something Milly had to deal with last episode and perhaps what Sayoko is experiencing at this very moment)…

The scene itself is quite chilling as is the multi-geass of affection from Lulu for her to live (Hell I even thought it might work long enuff for her to get to the hospital if she didn’t bogart Lulu’s celly)... But atlast she died, the martyr of a story filled with too many characters to have a plot guiding ability…I do have to give the writers some credit though as they did do a good job of keeping a lot of elements in play before Rolaid time-raped Shirley’s midsection…I never expected Orange-kun to just give up the ghost that easily or even that poetically considering his course demeanor throughout this series…I thought just as he said “Yes my Majesty” he was either gonna evil-smirk-jump-up and try to slash Lulu (Which would have been a perfect time for Shirley’s gunplay moment), or he was gonna reach for his hand in support and then Shirley was gonna misread the situation and then shoot him…So I was really expecting a rather decent cliché and got served another decent cliché’ wrapped in a rather unexpected twist (Orange-Kun actually killing himself just to let Lulu know he was on his side)…That face Orange made at the end of the scene though was just so hard to read which has me thinking maybe, just maybe his mission was to infiltrate…

I thought the way all that confusion played out and how Lulu still took advantage of the chaos made the ep pretty enjoyable to me…As for Shirley’s death, it’s kinda hard to feel all whatever inside when you kinda see it coming...It was a death of convenience, but unlike most in this situation the character will actually die instead of surviving in a scene where they should have died (*cough a million animes cough*)…So I gave it a solid 8 outta 10…Not perfect as the building jumping scene was way over the top (Not a trillion Zero-costumes over-the-top but still overkill), and Villeta’s sudden interest in protecting Zero seems a bit too unclear for my taste (I mean is it just Rolaid fear? Is it Ougi love? Is it Lulu loyalty?) But I did enjoy it and thought this episode finally puts to rest the happy-go-lucky segment of this show so that we can now proceed to the V.V. storyline untied by underused overused characters…

[orangejuicetang]

Here's another hint agianst Rollo. What was the title of this episode? "The Assassian from the Past." Who here was quite literally an assassian in the past? Rollo. Who was the other person in the room with Shirley? Rolo. Who activated his Geass at the moment Shirley said "Nunually"? Rolo. Dam you Rolo for killing Shirley. Poor shirley didn't deserve any of the things that happened to her. Losing her father, getting mindraped by Mao, getting mindwiped by Lelouch, then getting mindwiped by the emperor, and when things are finally starting to look up, getting mindscrewed back by Orange, and gutted by Rolo. I liked Shirley. Unless he's proven innocent somehow, Rolo is currently marked for a painful death.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Kenu

My question is, Queen Marianna, was she fully Britannian? I can't quite remember the initial episodes as to why Lelouch was in Japan. Was it for exile or because he was part Japanese like Karen? I think it was simply exile since it would be difficult for Cornelia and Jermiah to admire a non-Britannian.

Lelouch and Nunnally were sent to Japan as political hostages. At that point, Japan was still inedpendent and the world relied quite a bit on it's enormus source of Sakuradite, so all the three world powers - including Britannia - saw it fit to try and remain in their best favor and them being made a political hostage was part of that...

[hirahira]

This episode made me cry ;_; I didn't even like Shirley that much at first but I started liking her a little bit this season and I was starting to support Lelouch x Shirley but now she's dead ;________;

But this was still the best episode of the season. It's about time something actually happened

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She was a knight. Until Suzaku, only Britanians became knights.

You know, some people say she was nice and all, and she certainly was to her children, but considering the kind of persons who admired her (Jeremiah, prominent in the Purist faction, Cornelia, who thought nothing of slaughtering thousands of Elevens to bait Zero...), you have to wonder what kind of person she really was.

Jeremiah only did that because he probably thought Elevens were behind her murder. It probably warped his view which was the reason he joined the Purist faction. Obviously he really doesn't see it like that any more. Look who he is working for now Zero and a bunch of Elevens.

Cornelia is probably the same way. Remember, nobody (that we know of anyway) truly knows the truth about her true death except perhaps V.V., the Emperor, and C.C. I doubt they would talk either.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Here's another hint agianst Rollo. What was the title of this episode? "The Assassian from the Past." Who here was quite literally an assassian in the past? Rollo. Who was the other person in the room with Shirley? Rolo. Who activated his Geass at the moment Shirley said "Nunually"? Rolo. Dam you Rolo for killing Shirley. Poor shirley didn't deserve any of the things that happened to her. Losing her father, getting mindraped by Mao, getting mindwiped by Lelouch, then getting mindwiped by the emperor, and when things are finally starting to look up, getting mindscrewed back by Orange, and gutted by Rolo. I liked Shirley. Unless he's proven innocent somehow, Rolo is currently marked for a painful death.

Exactly.

At least he is useful and that is something to count for till he dies.

I wanna see Kallen btw, i missed her. ~___~

[bladeofdarkness]

rolo killed her
no doubt about it
in the first few eps he was a dangerus killer who could snap in a moment and kill anyone (even lulu)
as of the last few eps hes almost a comic relief (using his power to hide lulu in the closet)
this was the writers way of reminding us that he really is a dangerus wild card


p.s
Jeremiah hated japanese becouse he belived that lulu and nanali (marianna's children) have been killed in japan

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i just rewatched the ep
i was watching the scene when sherly slaps suzaku upside the head and gets him to leave lulu alone
and then it hit me
what a tragedy sherly's death is
what a truely great loss this is
she might have been clueless in the past
and she might have acted foolishly when it came to lulu and other girls
but what a girl
she picked up that lulu (zero) has something he has to do just by the phone call
and the first thing she does is spot that the greatest problem he faces at the moment is suzaku
she then takes care of the problem without him even saying anything or asking her to
she even picked up on the fact that he and suzaku are not friend anymore and tried to talk suzaku into forgiving him

and all this based soley on her love and belief in lulu
just picture what a powerful ally she could have been if he let her in on the secret
i myself am a kalulu fan and my second choice would be c.c
but even i have to say that sherly could have easlly been the one if he just told her the truth

some might disagree with me when i say this
but i really will miss her a great deal
and i think her death is a tragedy
not just for who she was
but who she could have become if she wasnt killed off in such a way

Nice post btw.
Shirley really could get Lulu from afar. Really tragic ending for such an awesome chara. I thought Euphie was the unlucky-drama queen but the crowning ceremony goes hands down to Shirley.

[muncheez<3]

dis episode was rly sad
i didn't want shirley to die, so much for a lulu x shirley ending but i was rly happy when she said "No matter how many times i'm reborn, I'll fall in love with you again.."

overall the episode was fine, had sum twists and i totally didn't expect orange to switch sides and the part where rolo and shirley were face to face, i'm not rly sure i would blame rolo for her deat cuz they didn't actually show the scene but i believe i have no choice but to believe rlo killed her or could it be suzaku???? w/e

r.i.p shirley

[Finre]

i'd very like to say that we couldnt know whether rolo killed her or not until we see flashbacks but, the episode title ''Assassin from the past'' points that rolo killed her.As you know jeremiah may be a assasin but he was not assassin in the past.

[yugioh5000]

I'm so glad Shirley is finally dead. She was just a distraction from the main plot but at least her death will focus all of the other characters To be honest she was just getting int he way of the series considering that all of her parts were kinda fillerish. She never contributed anything to the plot. Well now with Jeremiah on Lelouch's side we will finally start getting deep into the plot. The last two episodes even thought they wearnt compleatley filler were kind of filler imo. Jeremiah going to lelouch's side was one of the only non filler parts about last episode. I cant wait for next weeks episode tho.

[Sol Falling]

Alright. Two things piss me off about this thread. I'll tell you what they are.

First, it's gotta be the people expressing happiness that Shirley died.

You know, I almost can't even take any arguments about this episode being 'epicly dramatic' seriously. This is pretty much just like Euphie's death, where some utterly arbitrary, random, contrivance 'causes a death which is completely meaningless. Why did Euphie die? Because Lelouch couldn't keep his mouth shut. Why did Shirley die? Because Rolo couldn't get over Nunally. Fuck. The only difference is that Shirley actually made it through a season, giving us fans all the more time to grow attached to her.

edit: Alright, I wrote this before the above post, and just realized I'd forgotten to address one of the other most common criticisms. For all you people complaining about the plot's 'pacing', seriously, get over yourselves. Code Geass is a breakneck show, with dozens of plot threads running all at once, many resolving each episode in mere seconds of screentime and just as many being introduced at the same time. Don't delude yourselves with preconcieved notions that plot threads must take so-and-so much time to resolve themselves; Code Geass regularly changes the whole picture with one or two single lines. Just take for example how hyped up you guys all got about Lelouch's intermediary 'world stage'--then Lelouch just blurts out, half an episode from what could have been the end of the Chinese conflict, that once he'd taken China 'all conditions for confronting Britannia' would be cleared. There's no fucking hurry; now that we've got an inkling of V.V. and Charles' true goals, it doesn't even look like the destruction of Britannia will be a focus anyway. Twelve episodes is more than enough to blow all our feeble minds: I'll bet that we haven't got a clue yet on half of the plot issues 'Sunrise will need to address'.

Anyway, what was I saying? Ah yes, Shirley: she's worth twice all of those scenes and more. Even empirically, y'know, those 'filler episodes' usually end up having double the instances of more significant plot development than the beam and harken spamming 'non-filler' ones.

/end edit.

The second thing is, why the hell are half the posts here debating that Rolo 'caused Shirley's death? "It's too easy"? Wtf? Maybe the fact that the perpetrator's identity is so obvious is because they wanted to indicate with complete certainty that Rolo was the one who did it? He's got the motive, he's got the opportunity, he's even got the modus operandi (refer to Rolo's political assassination from Turn 04 for precisely what he pulled on Shirley. This case is open and closed, and there's nothing else to it.

Finally, on a less angry note. This:

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i just rewatched the ep
i was watching the scene when sherly slaps suzaku upside the head and gets him to leave lulu alone
and then it hit me
what a tragedy sherly's death is
what a truely great loss this is
she might have been clueless in the past
and she might have acted foolishly when it came to lulu and other girls
but what a girl
she picked up that lulu (zero) has something he has to do just by the phone call
and the first thing she does is spot that the greatest problem he faces at the moment is suzaku
she then takes care of the problem without him even saying anything or asking her to
she even picked up on the fact that he and suzaku are not friend anymore and tried to talk suzaku into forgiving him

and all this based soley on her love and belief in lulu
just picture what a powerful ally she could have been if he let her in on the secret
i myself am a kalulu fan and my second choice would be c.c
but even i have to say that sherly could have easlly been the one if he just told her the truth

some might disagree with me when i say this
but i really will miss her a great deal
and i think her death is a tragedy
not just for who she was
but who she could have become if she wasnt killed off in such a way

Fuck man, you've got a way with words. Y'know, I'm a bit of a hard, lonely man. Even though I've been consumed by Shirley, loving her, dreaming about her, wishing for her happiness first and foremost within Code Geass for the past one and a half years, for this episode I didn't shed one tear. That's because I was angry. Angry from the moment Shirley's fate sunk in, from the moment her humiliation at the hands of Sunrise was made clear.

But you know, your post changed a bit of that. I'm surprised, really. That a KallenxLelouch and secondary C.C.xLelouch fan could write that, could see a bit of what I saw in her, thanks to this episode, and express it eloquently enough that I could find some grieving within me. If I speak honestly, there's still a lingering fragment of shamed outrage within me, that it took Shirley's death to realize the respect and appreciation she's always deserved...but in the end I'm still a little grateful. That people have finally taken it upon themselves to see her as her own person, rather than some annoying side character who always got in the way. I'm glad that in this, Shirley's death might not truly have been without meaning.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Alright. Two things piss me off about this thread. I'll tell you what they are.

First, it's gotta be the people expressing happiness that Shirley died.

To be honest i don't get this as well. I mean you may be "meh" if a chara you're not related to, dies. But happy that a not-villain chara dies? Seems a bit weird.
And i just realized i'll go on 12 epis without seeing any Shirley or Ashford fun again. ;___;