Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Alto Saotome

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Are we ever loved for who we really are? Are we ever known for who we really are?

You know, I wonder in how much Ranka is blind to his faults (sets him on a pedestal) and how much she sees them, and just doesn't care (loves him for who he is).

I absolutely don't see this as a healthy relationship at all. I myself would never want to engage in a relationship where I cannot receive valuable input to improve my character through interactions with my significant other.

Ranka's relationship with Alto is currently a crush, where she'd accept anything he dishes out. Her attitude thus far is borderline obsession, not one of equal standing.

Seeing them together does not give me a feeling of an actual relationship, but one of submission.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

I'm not denying Ranka has a crush, but she's not the one who's slowed down her career to spend more time with him. As obsessions go, it's pretty mild.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Are we ever loved for who we really are? Are we ever known for who we really are?

You know, I wonder in how much Ranka is blind to his faults (sets him on a pedestal) and how much she sees them, and just doesn't care (loves him for who he is). For example, when she was about to play Mayan girl B, and was obviously trolling for encouragement, and Alto told her, "Yeah, you're right, you probably can't.", she wasn't surprised at all. She knows he can be a bit of jerk sometimes. And there's also the fact that, whether he himself accepts it or not, he is a hero. He has, time and time again, put his own life on the line to save hers. Sure, he hasn't always (ever?) been 100% successful in saving her with his own two hands. That's where she's... mistaken. But is it that important? The point is, he's tried, and been reasonably competent at it.

She knows he's a jerk based on that?

And beyond Alto saving her life, and looking like a girl, and liking to fly, what else does Ranka know about Alto? She still knows so little about him after 14 episodes, and her view of him has been the same since episode 2 when he saved her, that it's hard to take her crush seriously.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

She knows he's a jerk based on that?

Do you mean "How can you conclude she knows he's a jerk based on that one scene?" or "Do you mean she's learnt he's a jerk based on that one remark?"? Either way, it's not like he's a secret jerk or anything. He has a rough manner. For example, he didn't even feign polite interest when she got scouted. I'm sure she had plenty of occasions to see him angry and/or surly. They don't look that rare. She also knows that despite it all, he's a nice guy. Not a huge secret either.

And beyond Alto saving her life, and looking like a girl, and liking to fly, what else does Ranka know about Alto? She still knows so little about him after 14 episodes, and her view of him has been the same since episode 2 when he saved her, that it's hard to take her crush seriously.

Yes, she didn't google him or anything, so she knows little about his past. But heck, it's his past (emphasis on "his" and "past"). Why would she snoop and/or pry? Other than that, she understands him well enough. It's not like he's complicated. "Nice guy, very touchy, bit of a grouch."

[Terra]

So you're saying you'd happily go out with someone long term who you basically knew nothing about apart from very base info. No thanks. I'd like to know more about that person. Their likes, dislikes. Knowing a bit about their past is part of getting to know what this person is like. It's hard to have a good relationship when a person hides things. And so far Ranka has shown no interest in breaking Alto's shell to get to know him properly. She just likes the shell. It's totally the wrong thing to be looking at for a relationship.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, she didn't google him or anything, so she knows little about his past. But heck, it's his past (emphasis on "his" and "past"). Why would she snoop and/or pry? Other than that, she understands him well enough. It's not like he's complicated. "Nice guy, very touchy, bit of a grouch."

You know again, how is that healthy. She knows next to nothing about the man she loves, not even his desire to fly. She doesn't even bother trying to get to know him, not even for once probed about his past.

Yes, you said its Alto's past, and that its his business. True, but Ranka doesn't even realize how Alto feels about his past at all, does she? She never tried. Whenever they are together, you do realize the only thing Ranka talks about is herself, yes? She never bothered to know. Besides, Alto is a pretty famous person on his own right, but Ranka doesn't know about it despite it being public knowledge. Its always her, her and her. Her priority is more important than anything else.

But Alto has no problem sharing some of his past with Sheryl, does he? No. In fact, Alto was almost too eager sometimes to share it when he had the chance to do so. Therefore, he is not too annoyed about sharing his past, provide people ask the right questions.

That is why Sheryl knows about Alto's desire to fly and thus offered him that very present on his birthday. That is why when Sheryl and Alto are together, their interactions seem more genuine. As for Ranka? Her relationship with Alto is nothing more than a crush.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Terra

So you're saying you'd happily go out with someone long term who you basically knew nothing about apart from very base info. No thanks. I'd like to know more about that person. Their likes, dislikes. Knowing a bit about their past is part of getting to know what this person is like. It's hard to have a good relationship when a person hides things. And so far Ranka has shown no interest in breaking Alto's shell to get to know him properly. She just likes the shell. It's totally the wrong thing to be looking at for a relationship.

Who said anything about long term? What I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with two teenagers dating because they want to. Because they like each other and are attracted to each other. That they don't need to know all the details of each other's past before going out have dinner together. Whether they can build something more from there, it's something they can see later.

Originally Posted by Tak

But Alto has no problem sharing some of his past with Sheryl, does he? No. In fact, Alto was almost too eager sometimes to share it when he had the chance to do so. Therefore, he is not too annoyed about sharing his past, provide people ask the right questions.

Actually, when has Alto ever mentioned his past to anyone? He's answered one of Sheryl's question about his love, or lack thereof, for Frontier. That's how she knew he wanted to fly in a sky.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Actually, when has Alto ever mentioned his past to anyone? He's answered one of Sheryl's question about his love, or lack thereof, for Frontier. That's how she knew he wanted to fly in a sky.

My point exactly, because Sheryl bothered asking! And that Alto isn't irritated at all to answer.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

What I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with two teenagers dating because they want to. Because they like each other and are attracted to each other.

Funny, Lacus and Kira aren't older than Sheryl and Alto, but you've never used the 'teenager' excuse when discussing about them. Besides, this is Macross, being a teen is hardly an excuse.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

Wait, what? When, exactly, have I ever tried to defend the Kira x Lacus pairing? (I don't recall ever needing to.) But sure, why not? For the record, I have no objection either to Kira and Lacus dating because they want to.

Also, you need an excuse to date?

My point exactly, because Sheryl bothered asking! And that Alto isn't irritated at all to answer.

And my point is that it isn't precisely the heart-to-heart you're trying to pass it off as. Neither is it him "discussing his past". You also have to take the circumstances into account, but whatever.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Also, you need an excuse to date?

Not usually, but since this is Macross, and being a teen is hardly an excuse for hallow relationships.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And my point is that it isn't precisely the heart-to-heart you're trying to pass it off as. Neither is it him "discussing his past". You also have to take the circumstances into account, but whatever.

Because it is not just her asking questions, but also Alto asking questions back! There is clear interaction between the two whenever they are together.

On the other hand, Ranka doesn't ask Alto questions and vise versa. What they see in each other beyond their appearance is highly questionable. Thus, again, like a lot of people here, we just don't see how that particular relationship is going to work.

- Tak

[Terra]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Who said anything about long term? What I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with two teenagers dating because they want to. Because they like each other and are attracted to each other. That they don't need to know all the details of each other's past before going out have dinner together. Whether they can build something more from there, it's something they can see later.


Actually, when has Alto ever mentioned his past to anyone? He's answered one of Sheryl's question about his love, or lack thereof, for Frontier. That's how she knew he wanted to fly in a sky.

If they were strangers who'd just met then that's fine. You do take time to take to know someone before commiting. But they're friends who are now at the same school and have friends in common. Yet it doesn't appear she's even asked them anything about Alto.

In ep 10 when she finds out that he used to be an actor, she's disappointed that she appears to be the only one who didn't know. Yet earlier in that same ep Alto had given hints to her about it when he gave that advice to her. Instead she just goes even more fangirl over him knowing about acting too, yet never bothered to ask how he knows, or ask their friends how he might know. She put herself in that position to be disappointed at not knowing. They've known each other long enough to be past the shell and to start to know something more about each other.

As for Sheryl, she understands he's touchy about his past and is slowly opening him up. Yes it was just one question, but to get such an easy reply out of him isn't easy. He bottles his feelings up and generally doesn't share. So that fact she got something out of him shows not only is she trying, but she's starting to succeed. And she's doing it the right way by not pushing the subject.

Ranka's self absorbed and hasn't tried to get to know the real Alto despite having had plenty of chances to do so. Yes she finally managed to catch Alto's attention, but I can't see it lasting. It's all based on the wrong things.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Tak

Because it is not just her asking questions, but also Alto asking questions back! There is clear interaction between the two whenever they are together.

On the other hand, Ranka doesn't ask Alto questions and vise versa. What they see in each other beyond their appearance is highly questionable. Thus, again, like a lot of people here, we just don't see how that particular relationship is going to work.

- Tak

They talked or texted at least once an episode for most of the episodes up to 11... I mean maybe it's not deep "I hate Frontier... there's no sky here." "Really? Well, I hated Galaxy, too!!!" pillow talk but that doesn't necessarily mean AltoXRanka isn't legitimate. I mean, if you really have feelings for someone it's not always easy to open up... which, ironically, they were able to do to a point at the waterfall in 13.

Which isn't to ship AltoXRanka, per se; AltoXSheryl have great banter, and an interesting thing going; and he does respond to her prodding... but alot of times it seems like (especially in the conversation above) their opening up to each other seems based on mutual angst, as opposed to a blossoming relationship.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Before we get into shipping. I am going to tell you what I think about their characters. Then...move to romance thread

Spoiler for The Jump Off:

Spoiler for Foreword(READ FIRST:

Suki members that don't read or watch Bleach(Sinners!!!)

Hello I am BleachOD. Resident Bleach Otaku and Ichigo Fangirl.

We met earlier. Normally when I log on I can't see any word but Bleach...then everything is a blur. I am an Otaku for Manga and Anime. But normally I don't care enough about any series to post in it. Lately Macross has become visible so I took a look. I guess some of you felt I maligned your favorite character...some random noob. The others who knew me thought I was going to go all rabid shipper and I didn't so you didn't feel I explained myself well and now have doubts.

I didn't plan to opine. But thanks to Westlo<--Name change Westly... inflecting enough disgust for me in his post.(I love people like that. Go figure)
Eurys's HUGE blow to my ego<--breaking point. Crack comment made by Cris. I found the motivation I was looking for to post in here for real...

Earlier this week...I threatened to hijack the thread...that's still my aim. But first I want to clear up a few things...

1. Ignore everything but cocky attitude and threats. I was sleep deprived. Please don't hold it against me. I get like that...not that much
2. If you haven't noticed I am cocky, braggart and have HUGE ego. (Not a good description to start out with...but I swear. I am really lovable)
3.Opinions are like A-holes. Remember everyone has one. I don't care if you agree. respect my views and I will respect yours.
4. I like to tease and I trash-talk but it's all in fun. When we leave this thread I don't care who you ship. No hard feelings...
5. Snide remarks of post length and Grammar...will roll right off me. If you continue to insult me..without doing so, while you are making a valid point.... Make no bones about it. ...I will assume it's because you are stupid.
I give nicknames...however call me OD or I will ignore you.<--- Quirk...of mine

6.I will defend the ship I chose to the end....but you will learn if you don't already know me...
7. Let's have fun because as soon as I see Ichigo...most likely you will never see me again.
8. Don't bite me and I won't bite you (I bite really hard and some of you might have rabies. So please don't go there)
9. I fear NO ONE...
10. I may threaten to, maim, kill you, or gnaw off a limb. It's all fun. Harmless jokes. (You can do the same. If you are serious you will learn. If I set you afire you can't do shit. So don't even come to my house )

THE SMILEYS STAY. Not everyone dislikes them!

(Don't worry I didn't use here.)

Btw...when I said I would pwn users and take over the thread...I didn't mean just win arguments (Even I am not right all the time. Maybe 9 times out of 10)
(In a nutshell. Since I care enough to discuss it I wanted to make sure my posts don't get ignored and discuss it. In other words. You guys are as frenzied as me. I want to sit here and psychoanalyze the characters and their relationships with you. *Bid for Attention*) I don't want a Hostile Take Over... Sorry about that...
I also meant that not only will "I Post with substance" but I will delight and steal the show...Thereby owning thread

Listen we can't start out going tit for tat . However for my first real non Bleach post. It will be long enough and these statements made me see that it's imperative that we do it another way...

Spoiler for ASSUMPTIONS:

Er...No. If you remember I didn't say I was 99.9999% successful prediction of this couple... However unlike that other one...this team has real chance
IchiRuki is Canon. But I am not thinking about that. I am confident I can eventually change your views on characters....and my posting ability.
And the ability to garner support for Ranka.

.

Cris...if I am your favorite IchiRuki crusader...You know I hate BLEACHOD...CALL ME OD!!!

No...I did not.

One. I like different characters for different reasons. Just like I do people.
Orihime's emo-stalker ass...is NOTHING LIKE RANKA. I aim to show you...

See we can't start like that.... So how about I play my position? I will tell you my viewpoint. That way you will know what beliefs I actually have and what is assumption.
Then you can attack me and I can defend...

With that said... Let's dance!

Character Analysis:Saotome Alto

Cris you cited that as part of the reasons Alto and Ranka don’t suit (That one sentence I have to address more than once. Be sure to read all of them).

You said you believed that was bad advice Alto gave to Ranka. You said it was because “Alto’s running from his own problems”
What are Alto's Problems?

Alto’s perceived problems:

Spoiler for CLICKY:

Click on the thumbnails. Every time you turn around, someone’s (implying that Alto is running from something.
It is always inferred; he is really an actor and this is just another role. He’s high off “Playing the Hero”

However that isn’t Alto’s problem. The problem being…

What Alto’s problems really are:

Spoiler for Clicky:

For one thing…NOBODY is listening to him.

He isn't running from anything!


Did you click on those thumbnails? Everyone keeps saying “Are you running away?" He keeps on saying "that’s not it!" He even says what it is…
He does not want to be an actor. “I am sick of leaving my destiny in the hands of others” He doesn’t want to continue with Kabuki just because he has “The cursed-blood of an actor” Look at his reaction when seeing his father.

He thinks about his Kabuki days and for a minute freaks out.

Scenes later…When you see him in his Valkyrie.He thinks about his father again (And Ranka) then says “Just you watch!”
He wants to decide for himself and has. His only problem with his decision is…No one takes it seriously..



Dude wants to be a pilot!! “I became a pilot of my own desire” “I am not running away!” How many times does he have to say that?! Look at him. He mentions the sky, he’s daydreaming about the sky when the word “Atmosphere” is mentioned. He’s making paper planes for chrissake!! The man wants to be a pilot.

That’s why when Sheryl asks “would he like to fly in a real sky?” He chose to go with her over Ranka. He didn’t really want to hurt her so he left Michel behind to explain.

Alto has a love for the sky. He loves it so much he wants to be a pilot. He just can’t get anyone to listen to him…

Emasculation is another problem for Alto.


Alto has problem with people taking him seriously; seeing him as a man. He has humiliating suffix “Hime” attached to his name. He is constantly mocked, called a coward and his manhood is attacked by everyone he knows; even Sheryl.


“I am not too keen on dressing as a woman”
Did you click on the thumbnails?
Alto is very touchy when it comes to his looks. Because of them and his former profession he always likened to a girl; never a Man.

He feels emasculated by Sheryl…He even implies this when Michel is asking him to think about “Why Sheryl bothers to hang around him in the first place”
His reply….

He doesn’t seem to think that Sheryl sees him has a man. He didn’t even consider that she would at all. No one ever does.

This is one of the reasons, why I believe he is so dependent on Ranka. (<--Yes I think it’s the reverse.) He doesn’t feel emasculated when he’s around her. In fact it’s the opposite... Let me show you

Alto's dependency on Ranka

Spoiler for Clicky:

this is a perfect example.

Look at Alto…He’s standing tall. He’s confident and very manly.
He’s assuring her that everything will be all right if she will just depend on him.

Another Example of his dependency on Ranka


Again…Ranka calls for help. Look at his face…He actually looked stunned when she called him “Someone is relying on me” is what his face seems to be saying. Right away he hurries and calls her. (He just doesn’t get an answer)

Another Example…

Ranka’s need or should I say desire for Alto’s support actually made him happy. He does not feel bothered by it all. He encourages her by being there whenever she needs him. The only time he isn’t there… is when he can’t be there for her. Otherwise it’s no bother and he never complains.
Another Example…Ranka tells Alto that she wanted to him to be the first to know she’d been scouted. However she didn’t think she should bother him.


After playfully tapping Ranka on the head; he then says “Why are you still so hesitant?” He’s actually encouraging her to become dependent on him.
Alto has been all but physically castrated…By protecting her, supporting Ranka, by being her rock; He can feel self-worth. He can feel like a “Real Man”.

What I believe is a BIG misconception: (I have seen this mentioned a few times) “Alto’s being pressured into responsibility for Ranka.”

Spoiler for Clicky:

No; he assumed that responsibility on his own. Since he first met her he’d decided that he would be her rock.

He tells Michel this “It’s an obligation…More like my duty”<--WTF? Why does he think that?
No one forced Ranka onto Alto he chose the responsibility himself. Like I said before he’s dependent on
Ranka…He needs to be her rock. (So he can feel like he still has some his tama left…if you know what I mean)

An aspect of Alto’s personality that I believe is often overlooked (Especially when it comes to pairings)

Spoiler for Clicky:

He’s prettier than most women.

He was a famous and loved star in his own right. He had his own fan following.


He is not going to be easily impressed by looks or fame.

His statement about Sheryl in episode one, alone confirms that this could be more than just an assumption. (As well as a couple of others...He makes.)

He asks “What makes her the Galactic Fairy?” He can’t see it. You know why? Because of the reasons stated…

Ok...Digest that. when I come back I will explain why I said Sheryl is insecure and needy. I will also say why I believe Ranka is the "Strong One" and the one with the most potential for character development

And why after watching and dissecting this...Ranka has more than %80 chance for win.

Wow OD. I read your post with the intention of nitpicking any biasness an anti-RankaxAlto fan would say and everytime I find something you counter it with sufficient evidences from the show itself and made me think "Hey, she has a point..."

This behavior of Alto is already something we should already know, but it does make a difference when you have screenshots and detailed analysis to point it out. It just goes to show that despite our moral opinions on how he should act, it is what it is.

Seeing how you took your time to explain this point, you totally proved you're to be taken seriously. I yield. Your character analysis of Alto is more credible than mine.

Originally Posted by Anh_minh

Are we ever loved for who we really are? Are we ever known for who we really are?

You know, I wonder in how much Ranka is blind to his faults (sets him on a pedestal) and how much she sees them, and just doesn't care (loves him for who he is). For example, when she was about to play Mayan girl B, and was obviously trolling for encouragement, and Alto told her, "Yeah, you're right, you probably can't.", she wasn't surprised at all. She knows he can be a bit of jerk sometimes. And there's also the fact that, whether he himself accepts it or not, he is a hero. He has, time and time again, put his own life on the line to save hers. Sure, he hasn't always (ever?) been 100% successful in saving her with his own two hands. That's where she's... mistaken. But is it that important? The point is, he's tried, and been reasonably competent at it.

I'm amazed at how majority can make this truthful post look like a lie. Only here in Sheryl nation. Reminds me of people who condemn innocents during the Blair Witch trials

I agree very much with this and I'm glad it was brought up. When they first met, Alto indirectly called her an idiot but Ranka wasn't even fazed. He tells Ranka as it is. He doesn't sugar coat things to her. He supports her but if he thinks it's too farfetched, he'll tell her. In episode 3 when Alto frankly told her to let go of his shirt, she passively complied, didn't she? I don't think she was even bothered that Alto was having tantrums and taking it out against her. Ranka is very much aware of how he is and she never faults Alto for it.

When Alto ditched her even after she told him that she has a present for him, Ranka never took it against Alto. It would be so offending to have the guy you like ignore your present for him. I don't know about others, but that's an emotional blow. It's always personal if you put in a lot of effort in it. Yet, when Ranka found out Alto's in danger, she basically shunned everyone who got hostaged and thought of nothing but Alto.

Ranka's attraction towards Alto isn't just a lame senpai-kohai one where the kohai is only about the looks and positive things then gets turned off if she finds out the senpai smokes or something. Ranka accepts Alto as it is as well. Is there any part of Alto that Ranka was shown to not like? What is it about Alto that would turn her off and disillusion her feelings for this guy?

Maybe someone here can jot it down. ^_^

Originally Posted by Tak

She knows next to nothing about the man she loves, not even his desire to fly. She doesn't even bother trying to get to know him, not even for once probed about his past.

Everything you said < Going to Galia 4 despite all odds and risking her life all for him.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Everything you said < Going to Galia 4 despite all odds and risking her life all for him.

Ja, and how well did that turn out? Pfft.

Originally Posted by stray

Which isn't to ship AltoXRanka, per se; AltoXSheryl have great banter, and an interesting thing going; and he does respond to her prodding... but alot of times it seems like (especially in the conversation above) their opening up to each other seems based on mutual angst, as opposed to a blossoming relationship.

I am not saying they are close to the stages of a blossoming relationship, but there is interaction, which is undeniable. Sharing mutual angst is well, still sharing. Prior to that, the both of them had nowhere to vent their frustrations.

Sheryl is not afraid to ask Alto questions, and have been trying to know more about him. Yes, so far Alto cannot recognize Sheryl's feelings and that their relationship is hardly a romantic one. Regardless, Alto opens up to Sheryl more so than he does with anybody else. Slowly but surely, and that is a good sign.

- Tak

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, she didn't google him or anything, so she knows little about his past. But heck, it's his past (emphasis on "his" and "past"). Why would she snoop and/or pry? Other than that, she understands him well enough. It's not like he's complicated. "Nice guy, very touchy, bit of a grouch."

This may be long-winded, but I just have to make this spiel.

The thing is, Ranka was part of Miss Macross right? So she didn't hear the name of the judges and the name of one of them didn't pique her interest? (Or she was too nervous for her own sake and didn't hear when the names were announced?) Sheryl on the other hand seems to have made the connection instantly. Along her on the same table is an old, seemingly popular Kabuki persona aboard Frontier, surname Saotome...

"Hey, I know someone else named Saotome and he looks very fit for kabuki..."

When Alto was teased "Princess" in High School Queen, look at Sheryl's expression. She was definitely stitching things up. She probably realized that Alto decided not to follow the kabuki tradition of his family, and by the look on his face (apart from his current choice of career), he hates it. Aren't you surprised that she didn't ride on with teasing him?

Ranka all the while, has been around while Sheryl was picking up these clues. I'm partly surprised that Sheryl didn't remind Ranka that one of the judges on the contest she wanted to win was Alto's father, you know. Perhaps our girl really has some tact in there

[stray]

Originally Posted by Tak

Sheryl is not afraid to ask Alto questions, and have been trying to know more about him. Yes, so far Alto cannot recognize Sheryl's feelings and that their relationship is hardly a romantic one. Regardless, Alto opens up to Sheryl more so than he does with anybody else. Slowly but surely, and that is a good sign.

Originally Posted by Terra

Ranka's self absorbed and hasn't tried to get to know the real Alto despite having had plenty of chances to do so. Yes she finally managed to catch Alto's attention, but I can't see it lasting. It's all based on the wrong things.

...honestly, I don't know if Sheryl recognizes Sheryl's feelings right now. I mean, put yourself in Alto's shoes. I know, I know, probably next to impossible... but... try.

I mean, think back to Star Date. Alto doesn't give a crap about who she is, but he had a fun little date with her, a kiss, and when he went to give the earring back... almost kicked out by security. Of course she did then let him hold onto her earring for luck. But... grand scheme of things, that was supposed to be that. A fun little 'fling' for the both of them. Sheryl to go back to Galaxy and Alto back to SMS and maybe Ranka.

Fast forward to next episode; Sheryl can't go back to Galaxy. So, she's all up in his ish, calling him slave at school, and then enrolling in school. And, I mean, Sheryl's come ons are just so sweet in a clueless kind of way, but... push comes to shove, she's still "Sheryl Nome." Even when she's giving him his present, her chest still gives people 'hopes and dreams.'

I'm not trying to make the point that Sheryl is conceited; obviously she is , but my point is: if you were Alto, why would you even fuck with that? Even if you had the hint of insight that she might be interested, she's completely hung up on herself (maybe like a certain famous father figure you've grown to despise), to the point where you would always come second; and at the end of the day, if Galaxy were to show up... would she even bother to stick around?

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Er...No. If you remember I didn't say I was 99.9999% successful prediction of this couple... However unlike that other one...this team has real chance
IchiRuki is Canon. But I am not thinking about that. I am confident I can eventually change your views on characters....and my posting ability.
And the ability to garner support for Ranka.

That wasn't directed to you, that was a comment half said in jest to justinstrife.

You said you believed that was bad advice Alto gave to Ranka. You said it was because “Alto’s running from his own problems”
What are Alto's Problems?

Sweets, you should've asked me to elaborate on that first. While I believe Alto's passion for flying is genuine, he did shrug off and ran away from his family issues and inheritance in order to pursue his dream. I would expand on this more, but as a matter of fact, the next episode looks like it'll touch on Alto and the Saotome household, as I keep telling everyone, when MF is in the middle of its story, let's just sit back and watch how it unfolds. After it's done, then we'll be talking.

Alto's dependency on Ranka (Did you mean Ranka's dependency on Alto, or Alto's dependency on Ranka's dependency on him ?)

I'm not sure if you realize it, but this whole passage just saved me the time and effort of showing why I have such a big problem with Alto x Ranka.

While I appreciate you typing out your perspective on Alto to me (and I read your messages to me prior to this) I'm going to hold on to this and refrain from entering any discussion about Alto until the series has given enough to work on, especially how he's the least interesting subject for me right now. This is different from a character analysis on Bleach, as Bleach has 100+ chapters to expand Ichigo's character, and in fourteen episodes, Alto's character development is only beginning to take off. (I'd argue that his character development is heavily entwined with Sheryl's as Ichigo's is with Rukia's, but we all know some will violent disagree on that. )

[Tak]

Originally Posted by stray

...honestly, I don't know if Sheryl recognizes Sheryl's feelings right now. I mean, put yourself in Alto's shoes. I know, I know, probably next to impossible... but... try.

I take it you are trying to say if Alto recognizes Sheryl's feeling right now. Well, obviously not.

Originally Posted by stray

I mean, think back to Star Date. Alto doesn't give a crap about who she is, but he had a fun little date with her, a kiss, and when he went to give the earring back... almost kicked out by security. Of course she did then let him hold onto her earring for luck. But... grand scheme of things, that was supposed to be that. A fun little 'fling' for the both of them. Sheryl to go back to Galaxy and Alto back to SMS and maybe Ranka.

Which was an unexpected encounter/experience for the both of them, I would say. One that both feels quite good about.

But, the disappearance of Galaxy was like fate, wasn't it?

Originally Posted by stray

Fast forward to next episode; Sheryl can't go back to Galaxy. So, she's all up in his ish, calling him slave at school, and then enrolling in school. And, I mean, Sheryl's come ons are just so sweet in a clueless kind of way, but... push comes to shove, she's still "Sheryl Nome." Even when she's giving him his present, her chest still gives people 'hopes and dreams.'

I'm not trying to make the point that Sheryl is conceited; obviously she is , but my point is: if you were Alto, why would you even fuck with that?

Because through both of their interactions, they have been lowering their emotional guard. Moreover, Alto certainly is fucking with it. After all, although Alto might not realize it, but he had unknowingly volunteered to be involved himself in her activities for the past episodes. Then, he accepted her invitation to fly in the sky that she offered.

Originally Posted by stray

Even if you had the hint of insight that she might be interested, she's completely hung up on herself (maybe like a certain famous father figure you've grown to despise), to the point where you would always come second; and at the end of the day, if Galaxy were to show up... would she even bother to stick around?

Yes, she is a famous figure. She knows this, but that facade of her is becoming thinner and thinner around Alto. By episode 14, I can see her suddenly dropping her guard completely when she made Alto promise that he would come back in one piece, then proceed to see him off.

Alto, as usual, is being as oblivious as ever.

With all that had transpired, I don't know how much the Galaxy would mean to her at this point. She has hots for the guy, and she is beginning to realize it. Slowly but surely, that pain will eventually creep up on her.

- Tak

[Teletha]

Originally Posted by ani_d

When Alto ditched her even after she told him that she has a present for him, Ranka never took it against Alto. It would be so offending to have the guy you like ignore your present for him. I don't know about others, but that's an emotional blow. It's always personal if you put in a lot of effort in it. Yet, when Ranka found out Alto's in danger, she basically shunned everyone who got hostaged and thought of nothing but Alto.

Ranka's attraction towards Alto isn't just a lame senpai-kohai one where the kohai is only about the looks and positive things then gets turned off if she finds out the senpai smokes or something. Ranka accepts Alto as it is as well. Is there any part of Alto that Ranka was shown to not like? What is it about Alto that would turn her off and disillusion her feelings for this guy?

BUT she should have! Come on. Why did he get a free pass? Different strokes for different folks I guess, but that's why I can't even begin to like Ranka x Alto. She does let him get away with treating her like crap as long as he's nice enough the next day. What kind of relationship is that even? She's so dependent on him any attention he gives her she's grateful for. She should be better then that. I'm not saying she shouldn't have gone to save him, or forgiven him but there should have been something more there. Moe stars, him getting a tingly feeling about it and giggling in planes just doesn't work for me. They could have actually had a meaningful conversation about why he went there and why he blew her off or why it was important, anything, but they didn't.

Then the second part of what you said basically says why I can't like Ranka as a character much either. She is solely obsessed with Alto and Alto only. Not worrying about anyone else there. Even after the events of episode 12 she didn't care a bit about Sheryl. Ranka accepts Alto, but barely knows anything about him and doesn't ever attempt to know anything about him. Sheryl doesn't know much, but she knows more and she hasn't even admitted to herself, let alone anyone else, that she even likes Alto. She tires to know more. When Ranka doesn't know something, she gets upset she didn't know. Not really because she wants to know, but because she's the only one who didn't know.

I still see Alto x Ranka as hero worship. She excuses his faults because when he's good, he's pretty damn good. I don't think Sheryl would allow him to walk all over her. Just like he's not impressed with her when she acts out and calls her on it. That to me is the makings of an EQUAL relationship, or a possible one at least.

re: the lovely codependent relationship. Being with Ranka because it makes Alto feel like a manly man just is about the worse basis for a couple ever. That is masking his problem and not dealing with the real issues he might have. He shouldn't have to be with someone to make up for something he lacks. You get in a relationship with someone who brings out the good in you, who compliments you, but not who you have to depend on so much without them you'd be incomplete.

Good lord, sorry for the length.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Tak

I take it you are trying to say if Alto recognizes Sheryl's feeling right now. Well, obviously not.

No, I meant Sheryl not understanding her own feelings.

Because through both of their interactions, they have been lowering their emotional guard. Moreover, Alto certainly is fucking with it. After all, although Alto might not realize it, but he had unknowingly volunteered to be involved himself in her activities for the past episodes. Then, he accepted her invitation to fly in the sky that she offered.

He's been... he dabbled, to be fair...

Yes, she is a famous figure. She knows this, but that facade of her is becoming thinner and thinner around Alto. By episode 14, I can see her suddenly dropping her guard completely when she made Alto promise that he would come back in one piece, then proceed to see him off.

Hmm... well they both probably thought the other was dead before then...

With all that had transpired, I don't know how much the Galaxy would mean to her at this point. She has hots for the guy, and she is beginning to realize it. Slowly but surely, that pain will eventually creep up on her.

Having the hots for someone is one thing; changing your lives so you can be together is another. Can go back to SDFM and see how well that worked for Minmay when she decided to stop singing and asked Hikaru to stop flying...

Anyway, I'm not trying to hate on Sheryl, I'm just trying to be realistic (well, in the Macross universe anyway). Alto just doesn't seem to believe in Sheryl much at all, and given his family situations, I can kind of see why he might not. Maybe it's a self fulfilling representation of Alto's attitude. I'm not even going to speculate on how things can change in that regard; but what it comes down to IMO is that no matter how much Sheryl prods or gets to know him it's not going to get her very far. Especially when Alto has got a loli moe to lean on and play hero for every few episodes.