Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Traece]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Nevertheless, it's his personal bias that is making him suspect Lelouch. There's no real evidence to back it, just supposition.

I concur with that. In the past since the airing of Episode 14 I have said more than once that Suzaku's blame is mearly out of his anger and hatred for Lelouch.

It's not hard to say that either, because it's entirely true. But then at the same time, he's no fool to blame Lelouch. Because 99% of the time, Lelouch done it! The other 1% is Rolo and Shirley's little alone time in that room, if you know what I mean. ^_-

[morbosfist]

There's no doubt that Lelouch could (and has) engineered such things, but Suzaku jumping to the conclusion that he killed Shirley is a bit much. He could have just let her fall if he wanted her dead. If the incident with the fall hadn't occurred, his suspicion would be reasonable. It's not right now, because he's ignoring facts that would be difficult at best to fabricate.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Just because you ACT nice doesn't mean you are nice.

[demon_god04]

But you still can't go up to the person who "acts" nice and accuse him of being otherwise when you have no proof.

[Dynastya]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

There's no doubt that Lelouch could (and has) engineered such things, but Suzaku jumping to the conclusion that he killed Shirley is a bit much. He could have just let her fall if he wanted her dead. If the incident with the fall hadn't occurred, his suspicion would be reasonable. It's not right now, because he's ignoring facts that would be difficult at best to fabricate.

What can anyone say.

V.V. = Palpatine
Suzaku = Anakin Skywalker who even gets suspicious of his own wife Padme and his own teacher Obi Wan near the end of episode III.

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

There's no doubt that Lelouch could (and has) engineered such things, but Suzaku jumping to the conclusion that he killed Shirley is a bit much. He could have just let her fall if he wanted her dead. If the incident with the fall hadn't occurred, his suspicion would be reasonable. It's not right now, because he's ignoring facts that would be difficult at best to fabricate.

Suzaku knows Lelouch can manipulate people, so that makes it less difficult to "fabricate". And yes, the catching-Shirley thing could make him reconsider things, but that's the only tiny thing he has against all the other evidence he (thinks he) has prior to this that Lelouch is a heartless demon who will stop at nothing to get what he wants. In his biased mind, yes, Lelouch could have decided to kill Shirley after, say, she had discovered his secret.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

But you still can't go up to the person who "acts" nice and accuse him of being otherwise when you have no proof.

Yes you can. It's called being a suspect. Doesn't mean he did it but he could have done it. I don't see Suzaku heading over to China to arrest Lelouch yet. That's because he doesn't have evidence. He's trying to get the evidence from Kallen

[HayashiTakara]

I love to hate Suzaku, does that count?

I think the author's intent is to make viewers pissy at him, as Suzaku is constantly doing things to make people hate him. Most recently, what he's about to do to Karin is unforgivable, especially to her fans.

[morbosfist]

As you note, it's his biased mind. He wants Lelouch to be guilty, and is making up the reasons to fit with that. As for fabrication, how exactly would Lelouch be in both the Chinese Federation and Ashford at the same time? We know, but how would Suzaku know? In addition, there's the intelligence reports, the other students, etc. The evidence is a mountain and Suzaku's at the bottom looking the other way.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Yes you can. It's called being a suspect. Doesn't mean he did it but he could have done it. I don't see Suzaku heading over to China to arrest Lelouch yet. That's because he doesn't have evidence. He's trying to get the evidence from Kallen

The point is that he has no justification in using an illegal means to obtain information from a POW because there is not even a single piece of evidence that supports his claims. So you admit that he has no basis in saying Lelouch is the murderer considering he is trying to get said evidence from Kallen correct?

[Dynastya]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Yes you can. It's called being a suspect. Doesn't mean he did it but he could have done it. I don't see Suzaku heading over to China to arrest Lelouch yet. That's because he doesn't have evidence. He's trying to get the evidence from Kallen

Yeah and the result will be that this person whom you have accused without any proof will either break your nose or sue you for libel. Plus add the benefit that any other person close by will see you as the one who is in the 'wrong'.

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

As you note, it's his biased mind. He wants Lelouch to be guilty, and is making up the reasons to fit with that. As for fabrication, how exactly would Lelouch be in both the Chinese Federation and Ashford at the same time? We know, but how would Suzaku know? In addition, there's the intelligence reports, the other students, etc. The evidence is a mountain and Suzaku's at the bottom looking the other way.

On the one hand, he's got the evidence. Said evidence can be misleading, since Lelouch has superpowers, allies, and for the simple reason that it is misleading. He's got this tiny doubt that Lelouch could be behind this. Now, match this with what he has on the other hand, which is that he thinks Lelouch = HEARTLESS BEAST.

I never said he wasn't biased. Just that he has every reason to be.

[Dynastya]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

The point is that he has no justification in using an illegal means to obtain information from a POW because there is not even a single piece of evidence that supports his claims. So you admit that he has no basis in saying Lelouch is the murderer considering he is trying to get said evidence from Kallen correct?

Actually there are several reasons which can justify using either torture or chemical induction to get information from a POW, except in the case of Suzaku even if his justification is fair, that still doesn't make him any less of an ass.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

On the one hand, he's got the evidence. Said evidence can be misleading, since Lelouch has superpowers, allies, and for the simple reason that it is misleading. He's got this tiny doubt that Lelouch could be behind this. Now, match this with what he has on the other hand, which is that he thinks Lelouch = HEARTLESS BEAST.

I never said he wasn't biased. Just that he has every reason to be.

The thing is though he also has a mountain of evidence that says Lelouch still has not regained those superpowers. Not to mention that Lelouch is supposed to be under twenty four hour surveillance. Add to the fact that Lelouch was willing to sacrifice himself and assuming he is still Zero, put his cause in jeopardy just to save Shirley, it is just his personal bias with no basis whatsoever that makes him believe so.

Originally Posted by Dynastya

Actually there are several reasons which can justify using either torture or chemical induction to get information from a POW, except in the case of Suzaku even if his justification is fair, that still doesn't make him any less of an ass.

Torture of a POW is illegal through international laws though. Regardless the point is moot considering Suzaku has no justification.

[Dynastya]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

The thing is though he also has a mountain of evidence that says Lelouch still has not regained those superpowers. Not to mention that Lelouch is supposed to be under twenty four hour surveillance. Add to the fact that Lelouch was willing to sacrifice himself and assuming he is still Zero, put his cause in jeopardy just to save Shirley, it is just his personal bias with no basis whatsoever that makes him believe so.

Well actually Suzaku is following his gut instincts (which the producers have used the term 'in his heart he knows'), and following upon those gut instincts. So let him justify his actions all he wants, he's already hated anyway.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Dynastya

Well actually Suzaku is following his gut instincts (which the producers have used the term 'in his heart he knows'), and following upon those gut instincts. So let him justify his actions all he wants, he's already hated anyway.

I'm just arguing against claims that Suzaku does have evidence to back up his claims other then his bias against Lelouch.

[morbosfist]

Ditto. He's got nothing but his bias, however justified that bias may be. hopefully Lelouch comes clean about what happened with Euphy in 17. It may not turn Suzaku, but at least he'll be less of an ass after hearing it.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Ditto. He's got nothing but his bias, however justified that bias may be. hopefully Lelouch comes clean about what happened with Euphy in 17. It may not turn Suzaku, but at least he'll be less of an ass after hearing it.

I doubt he will. It is so ridiculous that Suzaku will just dismiss it as a lie.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Ditto. He's got nothing but his bias, however justified that bias may be. hopefully Lelouch comes clean about what happened with Euphy in 17. It may not turn Suzaku, but at least he'll be less of an ass after hearing it.

Although to be fair, I don't think that the whole Euphie incident was just some sick joke gone awry is what Suzaku wanted to hear.

[morbosfist]

There isn't much of any answer he'd want to hear. The fact that it's the truth would be enough.