Kaiba (Another Masaaki Yuasa x Madhouse production)

[uebo7]

Spoiler for ep12ode:

Hmm, well in the scene where Kaiba is aparently barfing up some of the poison his mother gave him, you can see a little warp standing behind a pole. I thought that was just him there as the flashback was going on, being that that whole part was very abstract but could it be that he was actually there as it happened? That would be how he would know, although he was supposedly just born not too long ago. And i don't think anyone was doing any time traveling. Or Neiro could have simply meant it in a way that was not literal, but rather that he should know because of the situation or something.
EDIT: I just thought of something. Kaiba's powers tend to deal with memories such as puting his memories in others in order to blow them up, or using his powers to bring memories back like what might have happened in episode 9 when he stared at Neiro. Little warp also has true dna giving him the same powers. Maybe he knows about Kaiba's mom because he can read his mind.
Also what was the signifigance of that small peice of the kaiba plant that was shown in the flashback. Was that the seed that eventually started walking around in episode 6?

[BluWacky]

Spoiler for Episode 12 partially:

As I don't think I really had a clue what happened there I will refrain from commenting until I've watched it again (seriously, some of this episode was WEIRD) but...

On the materialising planets etc. - I had thought it was something to do with the memories that Kaiba was throwing at Copy Warp/Chibi Warp - like he was throwing memories of all the planets he'd visited at him, and when they were deflected they manifested themselves in the atmosphere. That's probably bollocks, but given that Yuasa probably went "hey, wouldn't it be cool if a giant gun appeared out of nowhere!" it's the best explanation I can think of.

I was also really very confused that everyone seemed to come back to life after I thought they all died in episode 11, but again I don't think I really knew what was going on.

I don't think the ending was particularly ambiguous - I think Kaiba knew exactly who Neiro was, and they're going to live happily ever after. At least in my head they are, anyway.

[uebo7]

Spoiler for spoiler:

In episode 11 the people were shot by that green thing and not the yellow gun resulting in only memory loss. That's why you se the orangish stuff come from their heads when they get shot. They were probably knocked out for a while or something.

Did anyone else notice that Kaiba has a right hand on his left arm when he catches Neiro when she's falling? I hope they're able to fix that on the dvd or something because it bothers me.

[BluWacky]

Can I take from the general silence in the thread that we're all a bit "WTF?" at the ending? (those of us who've watched it, that is).

I can't really decide how I feel about the show because the ending is so bizarre. It's not impossible to understand the overall end or anything, and I'm not dissatisfied by any means, but to me quite a lot of what happens came out of left field and isn't easily explainable. Kaiba is a weird and thoughtful show, but not a symbolic one, and much of the last episode seems to be symbolic - either that, or it's just weird shit that Yuasa threw in, and I'm trying too hard to make sense of it.

I still think it's a great show, and I think it's much MUCH better than Kemonozume, but the ending has left me a bit unsure about how to respond to the series as a whole.

[wao]

Your entire post summed up my thoughts exactly, yes. That last episode wasn't godawful or utterly incomprehensible, but I feel very mixed about it. As a result I can't come to a conclusive opinion about the show.

One thing's for sure, I do kinda feel the tempo of the last episode just threw me off entirely. Something about it felt rather unnatural. And looking back at the show it surely turned out kinda different from what I expected it to be.

[wao]

More than 5 whole days after the show itself, I still haven't come to a conclusion about Kaiba. I still personally believe that

Spoiler for 12:

Kaiba lost most of his memories at the end of episod 12 though, he only recognized Neiro out of instinct. That's what I like to think, anyway.

The reason why I'm double-posting, however, is because of all the Madhouse Yuasa columns I haven't posted about since the last time. And goddamn it, I'M SO JEALOUS

Jealous of the Kaiba staff because the impossibly awesome art director Kouno seems to be some kind of fantastic craftsman. Can you believe the amount of awesome stuff he's made? (you may have to scroll down quite a bit to find the picture)

Kaiba calendars.
Paper thingy you can change to different faces (pdf for making it available here)
BADGES (WANT WANT WANT)
A Kaiba customization for the Japanese Mac game "Makigame"
Kuroniko puzzle
Hyo-hyo gachagacha figurine (REALLY WANT)
Kaba mouse pad (and a fixed version of the faux Chocolate Nippo packets with proper spelling)


I couldn't help but just squeeeeeeee like an idiot over those. There's lots of other interesting anecdotes in the columns too, of course, but I'm too lazy to translate it right now. It seems like they had actually lost episode 12's storyboard for 2 weeks or something... until Yuasa found it in a thick stack of finished cuts (he had an earlier version of the storyboard though).

Also most recently there was a lovely illustration by character designer Nobutake Ito featuring nearly all the characters in Kaiba. It reminds me of how delightful and creative the various designs are. Sure gives you the feeling that the show is over though, it's a huge "bye-bye" pic.

[SuperKnuckles]

Man, I'm utterly intimidated by this show's unexpected depth. Though like others have said, there's way too many possible double meanings and a lot of supernatural occurrences (including that deus ex guy) that doesn't seem to make a lick of sense. In short, typical Yuasa production. I wish the guy settles his plot down to earth a bit more all the while staying out of the stratosphere with his storytelling techniques.

All that said, I must agree that watching the animation studio work is sort of like watching real animators and ARTISTS at work. Even with the best of anime, you normally don't get that feeling.

[MrProphet]

Originally Posted by BluWacky

Can I take from the general silence in the thread that we're all a bit "WTF?" at the ending? (those of us who've watched it, that is).

I only watched it just, but I didn't find it to be confusing or ambiguous in the slightest. In fact, while I don't consider Kaiba to be the greatest thing ever, I thought that the last episode and the series itself lived up to their promise and my own expectations.

Yuasa can be sometime a bit flaky regarding his endings, but Kaiba was nothing like that. Actually, I think the last episode only made me love the series even more, since it reinforced all of my favourite themes of this anime, namely abstraction to the extreme of science fiction visions and accented tenderness.

- Abstraction. I very much liked the way in which ideas of SF literature and film were presented in a non-representational, non-natural fashion that nonetheless captures their inner qualities. Animation is, probably, the only performance art that can possibly utilize Cubism or Futurism or Suprematism to visualize a straight-forward science fiction story.

Regular painting or films of science fiction subjects tend to gravitate toward classical realism. Even anime in general is usually a haven of naturalists, depicting things as they would appear in reality (some are more stylized, others — less so), while Kaiba attempted to be one of the few animation works that utilized abstract art as a ubiquitous medium, and not as some gimmick to be used in a single scene.

- The second part proceeds from the first. Abstraction of form, presentation of people in a non-representational manner, allows for a truer, keener, clearer look at their personality and the state of their emotions. So, in a way, the non-realistic manner in which characters were depicted only underlined their humanity and the strength of their feelings.

What I mean by this is that Neiro might look like a spindly mess with rabbit ears, but you can feel her personality stronger because you are no distracted by a realistic presentation of Neiro as human. And speaking of which...

I would also like to add how much I liked Mamiko Noto in this episode. While generally I dislike fluff voice actors like her and the groundless buzz they generate in the fandom, I thought that she really made the ending of Kaiba work. Sure, she was the one who had the most lines in this episode, but I thought that she delivered them with such a passion that really made the things I've written about in the previous couple of paragraphs be true. Seriously, that was an exemplary performance.

Spoiler for other things I liked:

- Kaiba's mother's appearance was an awfully clever hint at the classic film "The Snow Queen" (1957) by a great Russian animator Lev Atamanov.



By the way, did you know that The Snow Queen was one of Miyazaki's favourite animation films and one of the reasons he got into anime?

- Once again, I thought the giant robot scenes were a very clever satire of the exuberance of the mecha genre, especially the Super Robots of old. To differentiate, I thought that Gainax's Gurren-Lagann celebrated that style, while Yuasa poked a little fun at the whole notion of this genre. It was all good sport, in any case.

[uebo7]

Subs for episode 10 just came out earlier today and for someone like me who doesn't know that much japanese, there was some new information.

After Kaiba brought Neiro back and went on the roof, he was talking about his past. He remembered stuff as if he were actually there. Does that mean that Kaiba is the original Warp? If that's true, how old would that make him? Also why was his body industructable?
If he wasn't the original Warp Then maybe all of the Warp clones share the same memory of before the first one was cloned. And why were they making clones for successors? First the king just had six children, but now for some reason they're making clones of one. Was that maybe an easier way to get a successor rather than one killing the rest?

There's another thing i was wondering about. If there's clouds seperating the upper and lower parts of the world that make you forget stuff, how does Kichi bring people safely back and forth? If it's that easy how come those other guys keep trying to get up by air balloon?

I know i'm asking a lot of questions but there's one more thing. When Kaiba is pretending to point his gun at Neiro to fool the security robots, he asks her to let him transfer her memories. Why doesn't she just let him? Is she doubting him because of what dada told her? And how is that much different than what he ended up doing anyway minus the memory hunting?

[Shiroth]

It's gonna feel quite strange going into the last episode after having heard some people's thoughts on it from this thread. I'll go into it with an open mind as always -- that's how i've always treated this show, and it's turned out to be one of my favorite shows this year.

Yet again great words from MrProphet. Someone who truly understands this show. :3

[MrProphet]

That's very kind of you to say.

[Aquillion]

Keeping in mind I still haven't seen ep. 12...

Originally Posted by MrProphet

Episode 11 out. Wee, no more delays due to damnable sports!

Spoiler for 11:

By the way, great call on Neiro being fake in the childhood memories. It really was only Cheki there. Great call, you guys!

No, that's backwards; look more closely.

Spoiler:

In reality, both Neiro and Cheki were there (as well as the young Sate and, bizarrely, a young Kichi, already with his magical office chair); we can see the true, unedited memory (with none of the telltale old-video lines on it) from Sate's perspective just as she gets shot.

However, Popo's memory of it was altered by the three Old Warps, with Neiro edited out. As they say, they've been manipulating him all along by altering his memories, erasing things each time he tries to go against them so he finds the old temple over and over again. (We can see the other major change they made to his memory -- changing his mother's last words to him from "I'll be happy as long as you're healthy" to, basically, 'become powerful and take over the world' -- trailing off into the Fake-Warp / Dada voice.)

Presumably the change to that memory was to make his promise to Cheki seem more serious and less like childhood joking around; possibly it was also to make him more susceptible to using Neiro as a weapon. Any of Popo's memories that we saw with the same scan-lines over them was presumably similarly edited by Dada.

But this time they screwed up, because while they'd manipulated Popo's memories sufficiently to make him their pawn, they didn't know enough about Sate and didn't anticipate her interfering.

So yeah, people made the right call on the two versions we saw of that memory indicating memory-alteration; but they were wrong about whose memories it was, and which version was correct. In episode 9 we see the memory from both Cheki's (correct, unedited) version with Neiro in it, and from Popo's memories (tampered with by by Dada), with Neiro edited out. This is also important because, recall, what makes Cheki freak out in episode 9 is the fact that Popo had plainly been using Neiro as a weapon -- she remembered being close childhood friends with Neiro, but Popo didn't, because Dada had erased that.

And another thing, regarding Kichi:

Spoiler:

That 'magical office chair' is actually a wheelchair, isn't it? I realized this when I saw that he already had it as a kid; then I looked back, and realized we never see him walking. It might make sense for an adult to have something like that just for convenience, but if he's had it his entire life the only logical conclusion is that it's something he absolutely requires to get around. Additionally, in Ep 9, he isn't tied up, just gagged and left lying on a table, even though they bound Hyo-Hyo completely (this would explain the guard's confusion -- either he's wondering who sets a guard on a paraplegic, or he's wondering why Kichi doesn't need to be tied up, depending on how much he knows.) When Kichi breaks free of his gag, he sits up to whistle for his magical animated wheelchair, but I'll bet he's either barely able to move below that, or is completely paralyzed beneath the waist.

Also, his sister has no weapons when she comes to capture him. This seems strange, in retrospect, especially now that we know her own body was a fairly fragile machine -- but it makes more sense if you realize Kichi is crippled and can't fight back at all. She knew that, since he's her brother; so she didn't bring any weapons because she knew she wouldn't need them.

[issei]

there was definitely a very clear progression in terms of the narrative's cohesiveness -- like rolling up a ball of yarn after a cat's taken it apart.

after watching episode 12, kaiba's impact is less immediate for me than that of yuasa's other works, but it had a genuine ending that closed the book on the series and left me satisfied.

regarding the climactic battle:

Spoiler:

i interpreted the explosion/appearance of giant planetoids and other physical objects as manifestations of the kinds of memories being used in the battle between kaiba and warp. when neiro was trying to find happy memories among them, she kept on opening chutes out of which that dark, pernicious fluid flowed.

the usage of pastel colors in this episode was simple, but deft.

[Kanon]

Spoiler for Episode 12:

Well, considering the overall sad atmosphere of the show, I really wasn't expecting such a relatively happy ending. Most of the main characters are alive and they can start their life over again now that their memories are erased.

I felt the events in the last two episodes were very rushed though. What the hell was up with the end of episode 11? Mantle and Fake Warp coming back from the dead and everyone getting their memories erased, all of this happening in less than three minutes... I was like, WTF?

I read back your posts about the raw, and it seems most of what you guys were confused about is cleared up by the subs. I still don't really get why Kaiba's chest hole disappeared just like that though. I guess it was just symbolism, learning that his mother loved him and tried to protect him all this time filled the hole in his chest.

Overall, I think Kaiba was a great show and I'm satisfied with the ending, but I feel it could have been done better.

[Shiroth]

Having finally seen the last episode, i can understand why people would be upset with that type of ending, though i'm glad i'm not one of them. It was satisfying, and did the show justice in my eyes. Shame we didn't see a bit more closer between Kaiba and Neiro, though it's not something needed, just would have been rather nice to see at the end.

I guess whati really liked about the last episode was

Spoiler for Episode 12:

finding out Kaiba's mother was inside the bird all along. That was a great twist, very unexpected.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Having finally seen the last episode, i can understand why people would be upset with that type of ending, though i'm glad i'm not one of them. It was satisfying, and did the show justice in my eyes. Shame we didn't see a bit more closer between Kaiba and Neiro, though it's not something needed, just would have been rather nice to see at the end.

I guess whati really liked about the last episode was

Spoiler for Episode 12:

finding out Kaiba's mother was inside the bird all along. That was a great twist, very unexpected.

I too am happy with the ending even the meguu elixir.

Besides you can't beat this line from Kaiba to Neiro...

Before I met you, there was nothing.

[katel]

Originally Posted by wao

Thanks for the link! It's a pity it's really short, but from what little there was it seems kinda clean. No shadows though, as one would expect (unless I'm blind.)

I guess it was aired just a few hours or less ago as a TV spot on WOWOW and someone immediately ripped it out...

first sory my bad english.
romeo x juliet needed a strong ending. tragedy
i dont think this series need a sad ending. from the start that memory thing was a tragedy. and im glad enemy wasnt popo at the end.before last episode for me this show was 10\10. im happy with this ending. director is an original guy. he is not going to make sad ending just to satisfy audience. or to adjust series atmotsphere. he did what he likes. im waiting his next bizarre series.

[BluWacky]

Okay, fellow Kaiba fans/watchers, I need your help.

Before I do my final crappy blogaroo of the last few episodes, I've been trying to put together a timeline for the events of the series to make sure I really understand what's happened. All six of the rest of the readers of this thread must be able to help me somewhere along the way! If anyone would be willing to check and/or comment what I've got down here I'd be very grateful...

Spoiler for THE ENTIRE SHOW, FOLKS, THIS IS VERY LONG:

At some point, the planet Lolo was like Earth, except with electrostatic clouds floating in space around it that causes a person's memory to be "wiped" - they still possess all the memories, but they don't have access to them (proof - Neiro and Kaiba both have all their memories after they fall through the cloud in episode 10, but neither of them have conscious access to them and Neiro's are then altered by Kichi).

Time passes, the planet becomes heavily industrialised and barren. The rich live on the crust of Lolo, both on the surface and in buildings suspended from the underside. They draw down the clouds from around the planet to create a barrier between the rich and the poor, who live in caverns constructed around the "core" of Lolo.

At some point, the planet is ruled by a monarchy. The members of the Royal Family have supernatural powers such as psychokinesis and memory manipulation. The King fathers 6 children, one of whom is called Warp. The 6 children become involved in a fight over who will succeed the King to the throne of Lolo, and Warp's mother poisons him to protect him from this fight - whether this means the other children think he's dead or what I don't know. As punishment for this - whether she is punished for poisoning Warp or for helping in some way, I don't think the show makes clear - the King transforms Warp's mother into the "space ostrich", Hal. Someone, somehow, at some point, extracts the real knowledge of what happened from Warp's mind and hides the memory in Hal. My personal theory is that his mother did this, again to protect him if something went wrong in the battle for succession.

The conflict between the children ends with Warp being the only survivor (I choose to believe that he actively took part in this battle, it fits with the fairly bleak attitude he has) and he eventually ascends the throne of Lolo. He constructs a secret palace with mosaics of his likeness on every wall in the "underground" of the planet - at some point during his monarchy, he also constructs the upper palace that serves as his public base of operations. The advances in technology that are presumably spurred by his power over memory allows for the use of "chips" to transfer memories from body to body - however, some aspects of personality in the Kaiba universe are clearly tied to the physical bodies, as various characters comment on the way their body is beginning to influence their thoughts - and the construction of memory tanks to hold vast quantities of memories for those who don't have chips.

Warp also constructs a machine that creates Copies of himself that do not possess his powers or the distinctive triangular mark around his navel but otherwise can act in his stead to make decisions, and a computerised security system that monitors his status and "births" a Copy Warp to take over when necessary. Various characters believe that the Copy Warps replace Warp when he dies, and that very rarely a true reincarnation of Warp is born with the powers and memories to go with it, but I'm not sure how consistent the show is with this idea - it's integral to the events of Episode 12, for instance, that a new "true" Warp is born from the rubble of the triangular monument, but at the same time the show also suggests that the Warp we see is the same Warp that has always existed and the Copy Warps only take over when the real Warp goes off elsewhere.

Anyway, Warp or one of the Copies creates an archive of all the memories from the various incarnations of Warp and stores them in the public palace.

More time passes, and eventually the mythical Kaiba, a plant which devours memories and anything that contains them, appears in space and attacks Lolo, destroying much of Warp's underground palace. Warp destroys the Kaiba by overfilling it with the vast number of memories he holds, and some of his memories become "moons" around Lolo - I presume these are debris from the fight with the Kaiba, like the planets of memory that appear during episode 12.

More time passes. At some point during this period, three of the Copy Warps have somehow escaped from the cloning chamber and aged, plotting to take over from the true Warp.

Neiro, Popo, Cheki, Sate and Kichi are all born in the slums presumably around 20-25 years before the events of episode 10. After Popo's father dies from sickness and Popo himself gets ill, Popo's mother sells her body so Popo can have a healthy body. There is also some kind of uprising against the upper classes and Warp in particular that Neiro's parents presumably have a part in - Warp or one of the Copies orders that they be killed (I still don't understand why Neiro is so forgiving of Kaiba about this, the ball gets dropped on this part of the plot in my opinion...)

The three Copy Warps masquerade as "Dada-sama", a powerful mysterious man, and form the One Thought Group, with the objective of overthrowing Warp and leading people away from treating memory as a disposable commodity - the Copy Warps just want to rule Lolo once again, however.

Then one day, Warp is touring the planet when he crashes his flying scooter and is discovered by Neiro... and then the show begins and it mostly makes sense from here on out except for little bits and pieces towards the end.

Phew, that was long, but any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated.

[jsieczkar]

Originally Posted by BluWacky

Okay, fellow Kaiba fans/watchers, I need your help.

Before I do my final crappy blogaroo of the last few episodes, I've been trying to put together a timeline for the events of the series to make sure I really understand what's happened. All six of the rest of the readers of this thread must be able to help me somewhere along the way! If anyone would be willing to check and/or comment what I've got down here I'd be very grateful...

Spoiler for THE ENTIRE SHOW, FOLKS, THIS IS VERY LONG:

At some point, the planet Lolo was like Earth, except with electrostatic clouds floating in space around it that causes a person's memory to be "wiped" - they still possess all the memories, but they don't have access to them (proof - Neiro and Kaiba both have all their memories after they fall through the cloud in episode 10, but neither of them have conscious access to them and Neiro's are then altered by Kichi).

Time passes, the planet becomes heavily industrialised and barren. The rich live on the crust of Lolo, both on the surface and in buildings suspended from the underside. They draw down the clouds from around the planet to create a barrier between the rich and the poor, who live in caverns constructed around the "core" of Lolo.

At some point, the planet is ruled by a monarchy. The members of the Royal Family have supernatural powers such as psychokinesis and memory manipulation. The King fathers 6 children, one of whom is called Warp. The 6 children become involved in a fight over who will succeed the King to the throne of Lolo, and Warp's mother poisons him to protect him from this fight - whether this means the other children think he's dead or what I don't know. As punishment for this - whether she is punished for poisoning Warp or for helping in some way, I don't think the show makes clear - the King transforms Warp's mother into the "space ostrich", Hal. Someone, somehow, at some point, extracts the real knowledge of what happened from Warp's mind and hides the memory in Hal. My personal theory is that his mother did this, again to protect him if something went wrong in the battle for succession.

The conflict between the children ends with Warp being the only survivor (I choose to believe that he actively took part in this battle, it fits with the fairly bleak attitude he has) and he eventually ascends the throne of Lolo. He constructs a secret palace with mosaics of his likeness on every wall in the "underground" of the planet - at some point during his monarchy, he also constructs the upper palace that serves as his public base of operations. The advances in technology that are presumably spurred by his power over memory allows for the use of "chips" to transfer memories from body to body - however, some aspects of personality in the Kaiba universe are clearly tied to the physical bodies, as various characters comment on the way their body is beginning to influence their thoughts - and the construction of memory tanks to hold vast quantities of memories for those who don't have chips.

Warp also constructs a machine that creates Copies of himself that do not possess his powers or the distinctive triangular mark around his navel but otherwise can act in his stead to make decisions, and a computerised security system that monitors his status and "births" a Copy Warp to take over when necessary. Various characters believe that the Copy Warps replace Warp when he dies, and that very rarely a true reincarnation of Warp is born with the powers and memories to go with it, but I'm not sure how consistent the show is with this idea - it's integral to the events of Episode 12, for instance, that a new "true" Warp is born from the rubble of the triangular monument, but at the same time the show also suggests that the Warp we see is the same Warp that has always existed and the Copy Warps only take over when the real Warp goes off elsewhere.

Anyway, Warp or one of the Copies creates an archive of all the memories from the various incarnations of Warp and stores them in the public palace.

More time passes, and eventually the mythical Kaiba, a plant which devours memories and anything that contains them, appears in space and attacks Lolo, destroying much of Warp's underground palace. Warp destroys the Kaiba by overfilling it with the vast number of memories he holds, and some of his memories become "moons" around Lolo - I presume these are debris from the fight with the Kaiba, like the planets of memory that appear during episode 12.

More time passes. At some point during this period, three of the Copy Warps have somehow escaped from the cloning chamber and aged, plotting to take over from the true Warp.

Neiro, Popo, Cheki, Sate and Kichi are all born in the slums presumably around 20-25 years before the events of episode 10. After Popo's father dies from sickness and Popo himself gets ill, Popo's mother sells her body so Popo can have a healthy body. There is also some kind of uprising against the upper classes and Warp in particular that Neiro's parents presumably have a part in - Warp or one of the Copies orders that they be killed (I still don't understand why Neiro is so forgiving of Kaiba about this, the ball gets dropped on this part of the plot in my opinion...)

The three Copy Warps masquerade as "Dada-sama", a powerful mysterious man, and form the One Thought Group, with the objective of overthrowing Warp and leading people away from treating memory as a disposable commodity - the Copy Warps just want to rule Lolo once again, however.

Then one day, Warp is touring the planet when he crashes his flying scooter and is discovered by Neiro... and then the show begins and it mostly makes sense from here on out except for little bits and pieces towards the end.

Phew, that was long, but any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated.

Spoiler for Response to spoilers quoted.:

Based on episode twelves start the cloud is man made, and was made after the shell was built. I don't believe it was said if the memory of Neiro's parents dying is a real memory or not.. Neiro did not live at home and it was said that her dad was sick. It all could have been added by Popo.

[uebo7]

Spoiler for reply to BluWacky:

Well, BluWacky, that seems to be correct exept that the planet with the gas is called Lala. I think Lolo is the place they go to on episode 6. Yeah, it's pretty easy to mix up. And I think jsieczkar is right about the gas being made by people based on episode 12.
In episode 10 they show everyone in issoudan being sprayed with the gas. That's probably when Dada-sama tampers with their memory, and I think he put in the memory of Neiro's parents being killed in order to make her fight harder. that's also when they would probably make Popo forget that he found out who warp was.
I'm also still wondering if Kaiba is the first warp that was fighting for the throne or if the marked copies just know the original's memory. And on that note I'm wondering what memory the other countless warps have in their chips. Dada-sama didn't like it when Popo was killing them so maybe they all have the same memory. But then again at the sart of episode 12, they show an unmarked warp being born. It asks the computer questions as if it knows nothing though it does know about there being a warp that rules over Lala because he asks if he is the same one as before. I'm assuming that was the same unmarked warp that appears throughout the rest of the show and that he was put back into the sack after he was talking to the computer because they show him coming out again. At that part it was pretty hard to tell what was flashback and what wasn't though. Because after that they show him killing all of the other unborn warps and then directly after that he meets Kaiba wich would have to take place at the present.
And going back to wether or not Kaiba is the original, I'm starting to think he's not. Dada-samas are also warps but they aged. The original warp would have to be pretty old but Kaiba looks so young. But then also it could be because he has a mark. So really there's probably no absolute answer and only thoughtfull speculation that goes in a circle.