Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by Narona

Charles: "There is no way it can work (geass), On the gods... on humans themselves!"

*Double geass appears*

Lelouch: Even so, I desire tomorrow!


My understanding could be bad, but it sounds like the power of his geass grew up (double geass) and that now he was able to geass it.

Yes, that was the point.
Lelouch used the Power of Kings to oppose Gods. Isn't that nice?
Humanity (Kings) 1 : 0 Gods (Jupiter)

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Ruvixur

Yes, that was the point.
Lelouch used the Power of Kings to oppose Gods. Isn't that nice?
Humanity (Kings) 1 : 0 Gods (Jupiter)

The geass mark appeared also on jupiter so no matter what, the geass had an effect ;p

[bran]

Originally Posted by Narona

Charles: "There is no way it can work (geass), On the gods... on humans themselves!"

*Double geass appears*

Lelouch: Even so, I desire tomorrow!


My understanding could be bad, but it sounds like the power of his geass grew up (double geass) and that now he was able to geass it.

when his second geass appeared a large geass mark appeared on jupiter
i think the gods decided they want to support him because he was fighting for the future

[dec4rhapsody]

It's really painful to see the shift from S1 to R2.
And given R2's "nothing is impossible" nature, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.
Lol,reason and logic.

[Carlos45]

I hope theres season 3 showing us some information regarding C.C's back ground, and new villian etc.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Ruvixur

Yes, that was the point.
Lelouch used the Power of Kings to oppose Gods. Isn't that nice?
Humanity (Kings) 1 : 0 Gods (Jupiter)

But it was really god just the collective unconcious of mankind. But i suppose in a place were thought can become reality it might as well be God. All it has to do is think wouldn't it be fab if i was omnipotent and omniscent?

Pity Lelouch didn't think that he should have those abilities as well before he left the world of C. Maybe he wouldn't have needed the ZR then.

[Theron]

Vallen is absolutely right on every single point.

I wanted to add something as well. The matter of C.C. and Suzaku crying was brought up repeatedly as a proof of Lelouches death. I have to disagree with those that consider this as some king of proof.

1. Suzaku cried because he had to stab his friend. It doesn’t matter what Lelouch did before that, it doesn’t matter that he killed Euphie. Suzaku was forced to kill – or at the very least stab in the chest witch is more that painful – his best friend. It also doesn’t matter that someone can try to add “former” to “friend”. He attacked Lelouch knowing the whole plan, he knew that this all was staged with one single purpose in mind – by dumping all the hatred in the world on one man get rid of this man. Lelouch knew what was going to happen and he didn’t even moved and smiled while Suzaku pierced him with a very sharp sword. Not to mention that he was forced to do this in front of Nunnully – effectively taking the most important person from her.

Does anyone still think that there weren’t enough reasons for him to cry?

2. C.C. The same goes for her. She knew what Lelouch had planned and what had to be done. That includes once more: physically killing Lelouch and even if he could resurrect that was I bet very painful; killing him in front of closest people to him – Nunnally, Suzaku, Kallen and everyone else.

Was the tremendous sacrifice that he made willingly worth crying about?

[vision33r]

Originally Posted by Theron

Vallen is absolutely right on every single point.

I wanted to add something as well. The matter of C.C. and Suzaku crying was brought up repeatedly as a proof of Lelouches death. I have to disagree with those that consider this as some king of proof.

1. Suzaku cried because he had to stab his friend. It doesn’t matter what Lelouch did before that, it doesn’t matter that he killed Euphie. Suzaku was forced to kill – or at the very least stab in the chest witch is more that painful – his best friend. It also doesn’t matter that someone can try to add “former” to “friend”. He attacked Lelouch knowing the whole plan, he knew that this all was staged with one single purpose in mind – by dumping all the hatred in the world on one man get rid of this man. Lelouch knew what was going to happen and he didn’t even moved and smiled while Suzaku pierced him with a very sharp sword. Not to mention that he was forced to do this in front of Nunnully – effectively taking the most important person from her.

Does anyone still think that there weren’t enough reasons for him to cry?

2. C.C. The same goes for her. She knew what Lelouch had planned and what had to be done. That includes once more: physically killing Lelouch and even if he could resurrect that was I bet very painful; killing him in front of closest people to him – Nunnally, Suzaku, Kallen and everyone else.

Was the tremendous sacrifice that he made willingly worth crying about?

Suzaku crying also because he is going to lose his best friend and not see him anymore. Imo, his tears is more about being touched by the whole event including hurting Nunnally. When Suzaku and Lelu talked about the slashing, they talked about it like it's an act or staging an act, he didn't seem bothered by the plan.

Suzaku says "that's all I have to do?"

Zero Requiem was planned way in advance to atone for the sins created by both Suzaku and Lelouch. Suzaku didn't die. It was all planned to stage the death for both of them.

CC crying, due to Lelouch's sacrifice, giving up his throne and letting all the world's hatred bestow on him. She's crying because he's carrying such a heavy burden and hiding the truth from the world in order to create a new world order, there was no mention in her mouth about saving him like she has said in the past.

Lastly you don't see old Orange feel sorry at all, he's the most dedicated and loyal servant to Lelouch and he's not mourning at all.

[Theron]

That was exactly my point. They have enough reasons to cry besides mourning his death. That is why these tears can not be counted as a proof of his death.

Jeremiah reaction on the other hand can be interpreted in many ways. He wasn't worried either because he completely understood and supported his plan or because he knew that Lelouch couldn't die. I lean more towards the latter.

[Carlos45]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Don't you dare compare Lelouch to Light!

Light was a total jerk to me!

At least Lelouch was shown wavering between good and evil but Light just dove straight into evil without questions.

I believe that light wasn't evil. Yes, he may of had done some bad deeds, such as killing innocent people, but that was because he didn't want to get caught. He believed the world was fucked up, and some one had to change it, and when he found the Death Note, be took it upon him self to punish those criminals that's wasn't punished by the law. If he didn't do what he done, then there would of had been more people dead, including innocent people. He thought that no one would do this job, since it would mean they have to sacrifie themself, and that's why he punish those criminals (Correct me if am wrong, by the way)

[Endrance]

so true they both killed innocents to achieve there goals all the soldiers lelouch sacrificed are comparable to the agents that light sacrificed

[Carlos45]

Originally Posted by Endrance

so true they both killed innocents to achieve there goals all the soldiers lelouch sacrificed are comparable to the agents that light sacrificed

But if you look at it in a whole, more people would of suffered, they both had to make their hands dirty to defeat the evil.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Carlos45

But if you look at it in a whole, more people would of suffered, they both had to make their hands dirty to defeat the evil.

Thing was Light was willing to sacrifice everything but himself, while Lelouch was willing to sacrifice just himself in those last moments to bring about peace. Difference between them I think is the former only cares only about himself while the latter cares about the world in general <_<

[Endrance]

oh i agree i liked both light and lelouch and i thought they both did what they did to make the world better no matter how misguided it may have seemed

[Carlos45]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Thing was Light was willing to sacrifice everything but himself, while Lelouch was willing to sacrifice just himself in those last moments to bring about peace. Difference between them I think is the former only cares only about himself while the latter cares about the world in general <_<

Light believed that no one can actually do what his willing to do, but i know where abouts your comming. I'm just glad Lelouch didn't die in a horrible way, such as Light Yagam

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Carlos45

Light believed that no one can actually do what his willing to do.

That's egotistical, something Lelouch managed to subtract eventually. Lelouch's belief was his faith in the will of others, of people, to strive for a better tomorrow versus dominating them through fear and retribution like say Schneizel. People have to want the change in the end for it to be real I guess you can say, and that's exactly what Lelouch did, he got them to want and to work for it themselves.

[Carlos45]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

That's egotistical, something Lelouch managed to subtract eventually. Lelouch's belief was his faith in the will of others, of people, to strive for a better tomorrow versus dominating them through fear and retribution like say Schneizel. People have to want the change in the end for it to be real I guess you can say, and that's exactly what Lelouch did, he got them to want and to work for it themselves.

Yeah, I gotta agree with you there. Code Geass is best anime i've seen, then it's death note (No matter how crazy light is^^) I just hope their going to make Season 3 or even movie.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

What made you think he didn't help people cope with lies?

In the last episode, Lulu told the greatest lie of all; that Good would always triumph over Evil.

That lie was so convincing, that people started believing in Justice again.

It was a lie. But as quoting from Terry Pratchett, we have to start believing in such lies, before we could make them real.

If all you could see is Lulu killing himself to "atone for his sins", then you are justing seeing his ACT. That's what he want you to see, that's what he want the world to see. It is about making people believe that justice is served.

In reality, Lulu was not a villain, yet he "died". Ougi was not a hero, but he was made a Saviour of the Japanese even though he did nothing to earn that. Suzaku wanted to die, but now he has to become the image of what he once hated.

It's all lies; but it is preferable to Charles' truth. Charles sees the truth that humans are violent and heartless animals, and said so. The truth did nothing to help improve anything, but only justify injustice.

*******
I once read a manga called "Misery". One chapter was about a child who was ashamed of his father's acting job; his father played a famous villain in a power-ranger TV show.
"Why couldn't he be a Ranger, why is he a bad guy?"

The child was granted a transformation watch by Misery for a few days. He proceeded to beat up some bullies and in the process, seriously hurt some of them with his super strength. The cops were called and the kid had to run away.
When asked why he was looked upon as a bad guy, Misery told him it was because he didn't have a rival super villain; without a villain, a superhero can't justify using any kind of violence he can dish out.

The world of Code Geass needed a Hero; but to make the Hero look good, it needed a Villain. It's all about appearances; lies, if you will. Zero needed to exist, and that Hero is Suzaku (whether he was really a hero before, didn't matter).
And the Villain is Lulouch. (Once again, whether he is a villain or not in reality didn't matter.)

And finally, the Hero need to kill the Villain. (Whether the Villain actually died in reality or not, didn't matter.)


This is about using lies to make the world a better place. Because unless we can believe the world can become what it isn't, we can't change it.

Wow, very nice post!

[Tael]

The problem, that I see, in Lelouch being alive, immortal or not, and not informing those who cared for him, would be that he is more or less doing what Marianne did. Hid from the world, letting the people that loved her live lies. It didn't end well, such things never end well... especially when coincidence is the driving force of life.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Tael

The problem, that I see, in Lelouch being alive, immortal or not, and not informing those who cared for him, would be that he is more or less doing what Marianne did. Hid from the world, letting the people that loved her live lies. It didn't end well, such things never end well... especially when coincidence is the driving force of life.

Didn't he just basically lie to the whole world already so that they could live better lives?