Macross Frontier Movie Discussion

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

maybe... heh i could see it. I bet he's going to make Ranka more likable. Much in the same line that he did to make Minmei more likable.

If so, I would wonder why he didn't bother with her in the tv series. I mean, it's obvious to whom he placed more focus on, not that I'm really complaining or anything, since Sheryl turned out to be one of the more memorable characters of the previous season. Besides, I hardly found Ranka to be that interesting anyway.

Perhaps it's easier to make someone more likeable within movie time constraints, but whatever.

[Realist_Classic]

Originally Posted by kobejin

Kawamori's message to MACROSS F viewers (This is all I confirm)

・The movie will be composed of edit part of TV series and a newly made cut scenes.
・Sheryl's and Ranka's live scene will be made with new songs.
・Triangler resolution is drawn and become a different end from TV series......"maybe"
・movie must be "DECULTURE",don't miss it!

Thanks for the info. Why am I picturing that Kawamori is sitting on his lazy bum with a big fishing rod, while Yoko Kanno is working overtime coming up with new music? Maybe I'm moody due to the effects of MF withdrawal, but I don't want a damn, derivative clip show

[golthin]

Originally Posted by kobejin

Kawamori's message to MACROSS F viewers (This is all I confirm)
・Triangler resolution is drawn and become a different end from TV series......"maybe"

that is the only part that interest me. Now to see which girl Kawamori chooses!

Originally Posted by kujoe

If so, I would wonder why he didn't bother with her in the tv series. I mean, it's obvious to whom he placed more focus on, not that I'm really complaining or anything, since Sheryl turned out to be one of the more memorable characters of the previous season. Besides, I hardly found Ranka to be that interesting anyway.

Perhaps it's easier to make someone more likeable within movie time constraints, but whatever.

He bothered with Ranka so much because Ranka was the tool that the bad guys used, Sheryl was a defective tool for the bad guys. I don't think Kawamori expected sheryl to become so popular, Moe lost to classy in this case. Moa usually wins against everything, but Tsundare and I think he gave too much Tsundare to sheryl without trying. (not saying that sheryl is tsundere, she just had a little of it in her personality at the beginning)

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by golthin

He bothered with Ranka so much because Ranka was the tool that the bad guys used, Sheryl was a defective tool for the bad guys. I don't think Kawamori expected sheryl to become so popular, Moe lost to classy in this case. Moa usually wins against everything, but Tsundare and I think he gave too much Tsundare to sheryl without trying. (not saying that sheryl is tsundere, she just had a little of it in her personality at the beginning)

That's just them having different roles. I'm talking about more than that. The direction of their character development, their costumes and singing routines... The whole deal. Depending on how much Ranka will improve in the movie (and this is still a case of "if") will show just how much lacking the treatment on her has been.

Moreover, "tsundere" is considered to be one of the moe ingredients today. But unlike Sheryl, Ranka comes across as a prototypical portrayal of moe from day one.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by kujoe

Moreover, "tsundere" is considered to be one of the moe ingredients today. But unlike Sheryl, Ranka comes across as a prototypical portrayal of moe from day one.

Pardon me if I look ignorant. But what is a "tsundere"? What does that characteristic have to do with Sheryl and Ranka?

[Tak]

A "tsundere" is a character type that is initially conflicting and hateful only to become loving and caring at the end.

Originally Posted by golthin

I don't think Kawamori expected sheryl to become so popular, Moe lost to classy in this case.

I think he more than expected our reaction.

Given his track record, there is a good indication that he had his plans laid out from the beginning. His interviews given very early had indicated a lot of things we saw today, the triangle, the ending... etc.

Kawamori excel in creating characters like Sheryl. That is like his flagship character arch type. I remember Misa in the original, whose popularity was way behind Minmei during the initial episodes, only to exceed her significantly during the later portion of the series. Sheryl's character development is strikingly similar. All I can say is that Hory Froating Head knows what he is doing.

- Tak

[Dash_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Tak

I think he more than expected our reaction.

Given his track record, there is a good indication that he had his plans laid out from the beginning. His interviews given very early had indicated a lot of things we saw today, the triangle, the ending... etc.

Kawamori excel in creating characters like Sheryl. That is like his flagship character arch type. I remember Misa in the original, whose popularity was way behind Minmei during the initial episodes, only to exceed her significantly during the later portion of the series. Sheryl's character development is strikingly similar. All I can say is that Hory Froating Head knows what he is doing.

- Tak

No, he wasn´t expecting Sheryl to be popular.

I have already read the latest interview that Famitsu did to him, there are some interesting things.

In that interview, he gives his opinion of some of the Episodes:

Originally Posted by Famitsu Interview

Ep # 2 Hard Chase: I always dreamed about Minmay having an older sister, and I felt just that when we design the "mini duet" of Ranka and Sheryl at the observatory.

Ep # 5 Star Date: We wrote this episode so that Sheryl became definitely Ranka´s older sister, however when we finished the script, we discovered Sheryl as a new character in his facet as a woman. It is the script that have more changes and I was not convinced that Sheryl was an important character for Frontier. But Risa Ebata asked me to test those changes and when I saw the comments of the fans, I was very surprised. Hours later we were in a meeting with Big West to send the changes we would do in episode 6 to a subsidiary studio.

I read the whole interview in this forum: Macross Generation But it´s in spanish.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

No, he wasn´t expecting Sheryl to be popular

I read it too, but I read it different from you. He was pointing out that the script (not the character) was not going to convince him that Sheryl would be an important character, but was persuaded to test the script anyway. He was surprised that the current (at-the-time) script worked. That is all.

After all, the intention was to have a love triangle. If Sheryl was not going to be developed correctly, there wouldn't be much of a triangle, no? If you are familiar with his earlier works, its not difficult to recognize this trend.

- Tak

[Dash_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Tak

I read it too, but I read it different from you. He was pointing out that the script (not the character) was not going to convince him that Sheryl would be an important character, but was persuaded to test the script anyway. He was surprised that the current (at-the-time) script worked. That is all.

- Tak

Well he said: "I was not convinced that Sheryl was an important character for Frontier" that´s why he was doubtful abot changing Sheryl´s character

Risa Ebata was the person that persuaded him to test some changes and those changes were about Sheryl´s character and because of that, people started to like Sheryl more, he was surprised with the fans comments (and the comments were about Sheryl) and even did changes to the next episode so that Sheryl would appear more.

If he was surprised that the script worked then why make changes to the next episode?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Well he said: "I was not convinced that Sheryl was an important character for Frontier" that´s why he was doubtful abot changing Sheryl´s character

The original interview made the context slightly different than what you read.

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

Risa Ebata was the person that persuaded him to test some changes and those changes were about Sheryl´s character and because of that, people started to like Sheryl more, he was surprised with the fans comments (and the comments were about Sheryl) and even did changes to the next episode so that Sheryl would appear more.

Kawamori was not convinced that the scripting would work to improve Sheryl, but gave it a go, and was surprised that it did work. Thus, he created further changes to suit what had previously happened. Thats it, nothing more, nothing less.

The fact is that Frontier was meant to be like the original SDFM, a triangle where both girls had great influence over the main character. Moreover, no matter how you like to dispute it, a strong, independent woman arch-type is what Kawamori does best. Are you familiar with his other works? Because if you are, you see parallels just about everywhere.

- Tak

[Urei]

It would be nice if someone provided a full translation of that interview as I'm sure many of us would like to discuss it too.

[Dash_Hunter]

Well like you said "I read it too, but I read it different from you" so we interpret the interview different.

One reason of why i interpret it like that, is beacuse in the same interview when kawamori is talking about episode 18 (Fold Fame) he said that he didn´t know what to do with Sheryl anymore, so Hiroshi Ohnogi that just joined the satff took care of that (Ohnogi wrote the script for episodes 18 up to 24)

Anyway, if Kawamori was expecting or not Sheryl to be popular it doesn´t matter too much, the important thing is that thanks to Kawamori and Ohnogi we had the best character of the series, Sheryl Nome.

Originally Posted by Urei

It would be nice if someone provided a full translation of that interview as I'm sure many of us would like to discuss it too.

I asked for permission of the administrator of Macross Generation (he did the translation) to post the interview here, i´m waiting for response

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Urei

It would be nice if someone provided a full translation of that interview as I'm sure many of us would like to discuss it too.

*Shrug*

The interview confirms one thing.

25% of the time, Kawamori bullshits
25% of the time, Kawamori trolls
25% of the time, Kawamori lies
And then, 25% of the time, he is on crack!

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by golthin

He bothered with Ranka so much because Ranka was the tool that the bad guys used, Sheryl was a defective tool for the bad guys. I don't think Kawamori expected sheryl to become so popular, Moe lost to classy in this case. Moa usually wins against everything, but Tsundare and I think he gave too much Tsundare to sheryl without trying. (not saying that sheryl is tsundere, she just had a little of it in her personality at the beginning)

That´s pretty ridiculous. Sheryl had by far the more elaborate character arc than Ranka. Unless SK thinks that moe characters don´t need to be developed to be beloved, Ranka may have gotten the more important role, but she got the bad end of the characterization. I think Crusader said it best in his final review of the series, it´s quite possible that SK wanted to make a statement *against* this age of moe characters.

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

I read the whole interview in this forum: Macross Generation But it´s in spanish.

Goodie, I can read that.

Edit: Hm, back from reading it. If we are to take Kawamori at face value, he they ran out of ideas of what to do with Sheryl around ep 18 and Ohnogi ( Who is he? ) then developed the rest of her arc? If that is true, it quite lowers my opinion of SK, to be honest. Still, they did an amazing job with her, so he recognizes good development when he sees it.

I want an interview where they ask him the right questions.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

One reason of why i interpret it like that, is beacuse in the same interview when kawamori is talking about episode 18 (Fold Fame) he said that he didn´t know what to do with Sheryl anymore, so Hiroshi Ohnogi that just joined the satff took care of that (Ohnogi wrote the script for episodes 18 up to 24)

Kawamori didn't write the scripts for 18-24? the is pretty interesting considering that those are the episodes that helped sheryl the most with Alto. At the end he did what he wanted in 25, no wonder so many people are angry with him.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by golthin

Kawamori didn't write the scripts for 18-24? the is pretty interesting considering that those are the episodes that helped sheryl the most with Alto. At the end he did what he wanted in 25, no wonder so many people are angry with him.

Well, if the interview was translated properly ( which Tak kinda disputes ), then yeah, it makes suddenly a bit sense. That Ohnogi person did the final build-up for Sheryl and the romance, then Kawamori got his jollies off by doing a big fight, a big sing-off and an even bigger trolling.

I hope someone corners him soon and asks him some real questions about what he really thought and wanted for the romance. >.<

*edit* BTW, did I kill the series discussion thread with my long post, or has nobody anything new to say about it anymore? ^^

[kilroy0097]

Honestly what can be said about the series that hasn't already been said and argued and disputed many times before by the active members in this sub-forum? Besides Tak arguing the exact meaning of the interview, which is what he did with almost every single interpretation of MF besides his own, I think we are pretty much on cruise control until the Movie comes out or more interviews and spoilers.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

That Ohnogi person did the final build-up for Sheryl and the romance, then Kawamori got his jollies off by doing a big fight, a big sing-off and an even bigger trolling.

I think that if the thing about he leaving Sheryl's build up to Ohnogi from episode 18-24 is true(I have not seen the Japanese article, so I have to go by what the Spanish translation said).I think that Kawamori just went by what he wanted to happen in episode 25. I don't think this bid too well for Sheryl's fan, because Kawamori had other plans for Sheryl but he let people change his vision and he didn't want to end the LT there.

I always thought that Sheryl's build up was all in Kawamori's hand and thought of him as troll for what he did, but now with this new information it makes sense why he did it. He also said that episode 24 was a very touching scene for everyone in the staff, and he kind of makes a little joke about Alto looking good with an earring.

[Tak]

In his earlier interviews, he had talked about the meticulous process of constructing Sheryl as a character. While Ranka was pretty easy, she was easy to design and needed just one vocalist. Bang, and it was done.

If there is any character he did not know what to do with, its Ranka, hands down. Ranka's growth from episode 1 to episode 25 was incredibly limited. So limited in fact that it was unnoticeable unless you get down to the dirty little details. I don't think he had a hand in Ranka, if he did, then it plainly shows his utter dissatisfaction and inexperience in handling a loli character. Prior to that, SK's ladies had been the arguing types. He had never done a loli moe character, let alone putting one on the central stage.

In fact, this is whats up, if there is anything unexpected in the series, its how he did not anticipate fans reaction toward the triangle. Now, THAT was an accident. Otherwise look, he laid it out way before Ep 18 hit the previews that the ending was going to be a harem one. Things sure didn't look too good when Alto's VA added that Alto loves the sky.

We just didn't believe it

- Tak

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Tak

In his earlier interviews, he had talked about the meticulous process of constructing Sheryl as a character. While Ranka was pretty easy, she was easy to design and needed just one vocalist. Bang, and it was done.

In fact, this is whats up, if there is anything unexpected in the series, its how he did not anticipate fans reaction toward the triangle. Now, THAT was an accident. Otherwise look, he laid it out way before Ep 18 hit the previews that the ending was going to be a harem one. Things sure didn't look too good when Alto's VA added that Alto loves the sky.

We just didn't believe it

- Tak

I am guilty as charged. I didn't think Alto's VA was being So Literal when he said that .
Now we know better.