Romance in Code Geass (Take 3)

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Shadowcatch

I'm pretty sure she lost her immortality when she lost her memories. I may be wrong though. But I didn't see the code on her forehead at all for the rest of the series. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough though =p. When i look at C.C. I'm not looking at her forehead xD

First things first, she sealed her code, she didn't lose it. Second, she (or rather Marianne) restores it in episode 20, so she's immortal again.

[Shadowcatch]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

First things first, she sealed her code, she didn't lose it. Second, she (or rather Marianne) restores it in episode 20, so she's immortal again.

Ahh my mistake. Guess I should pay more attention to details like that rather than raving over C.C. and Lelouch >_>

[Ashura Shamshir]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

First things first, she sealed her code, she didn't lose it. Second, she (or rather Marianne) restores it in episode 20, so she's immortal again.

So, by sealing her code C.C. was able to achieve, somewhat instantaneously, her never-ending life goal of becoming mortal…what a silly old tart she was, no? If these code bearers can switch their life spans, analogously to any logic-gate, then C.C need not have lived her long life of misery. Oh well, I suppose the writer makes things a little oxymoronic when you have immortals who can ‘’die’’. Peace ya’ll.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Ashura Shamshir

So, by sealing her code C.C. was able to achieve, somewhat instantaneously, her never-ending life goal of becoming mortal…what a silly old tart she was, no? If these code bearers can switch their life spans, analogously to any logic-gate, then C.C need not have lived her long life of misery. Oh well, I suppose the writer makes things a little oxymoronic when you have immortals who can ‘’die’’. Peace ya’ll.

Well, it was never said that she became mortal simply because she sealed her Code, only that she lost her memories. She was capable of being hurt, but that wasn't different from before. As far as we know, she still recovered quickly enough.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Ashura Shamshir

So, by sealing her code C.C. was able to achieve, somewhat instantaneously, her never-ending life goal of becoming mortal…what a silly old tart she was, no? If these code bearers can switch their life spans, analogously to any logic-gate, then C.C need not have lived her long life of misery. Oh well, I suppose the writer makes things a little oxymoronic when you have immortals who can ‘’die’’. Peace ya’ll.

Well, how do we know the immortality effect is also switched off with the Code? We don't. The fact is, we don't know squat about the Codes.

[Ashura Shamshir]

Originally Posted by youngde

Well, it was never said that she became mortal simply because she sealed her Code, only that she lost her memories. She was capable of being hurt, but that wasn't different from before. As far as we know, she still recovered quickly enough.

Hmm…I have no idea why you have quoted me here…oh well, erm, hello :0) :0) :0)

[Ashura Shamshir]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, how do we know the immortality effect is also switched off with the Code? We don't. The fact is, we don't know squat about the Codes.

Deary me... oh well, And hello to you too, sir. I agree sort off.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Lie

You cannot say that, what Kallen did compelled Lelouch to chase after her. He was going to do the right thing, but he was stopped by Rolo. She did get him to move, and she did get his self-destructive disposition to change. It was a positive change. Saying he was not resolved, when he was resolved enough to attempt to give chase, is backwards logic.
You've also conveniently ignored that without Kallen there would be no Shirley scene, there would no crane scene, there would be no Ashford scene. There would just be Lelouch, high on refrain, and Rolo having 'fun' with his brother. Neither is more important, but neither is less important than the other. Personally, though I tend to put more emphasis on the event that wasn't a blatant plot device.
This post just makes obvious that you over-glorify one, while digging for anything that can be used to dismiss the other.
And, see I'm of the impression that Kallen and Shirley are the two people who had the most positive influence on Lelouch, but I do not approve of just dismissing one for the sake of the other. They both had their own unique short comings, but what they wanted for and from Lelouch was, eventually in both cases, him and his well being.

Yeah well I backed up my thoughts about how Shirley has a better influence on Lelouch and his decisions with proof so how can I be biased when I have the proof. All you're telling me is that Kallen kept him alive and then go into a "what if" scenario of how Lelouch could have been influenced if he's given chase which I draw the line on evidence since that is a hypothetical scenario. Hell, I haven't seen any evidence of Kallen convincing Lelouch to do anything when he was in conflict through out the entire series which just proves that she can only provide comfort but no direction. Maybe your truth could be wrong. Maybe Kallen Really didn't have that much influence on Lelouch. Oh but if I dare confront Kalulu fans with logic or evidence to contradict Kalulu I'm either bias, prejudice, or crazy. How about you give me something substantial to work with first and then call me crazy.

[morbosfist]

If you're referring to Shirley holding the paper crane, then that's hardly a valid example. She's not doing anything there. Lelouch is just reminded of Nunnally. Kallen is the one that got the ball rolling.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

If you're referring to Shirley holding the paper crane, then that's hardly a valid example. She's not doing anything there. Lelouch is just reminded of Nunnally. Kallen is the one that got the ball rolling.

Please she gave him an option to continue being zero but not a good reason why. Rolo provided him with an alternative. Shirley gave him an actual good reason to continue doing what he's doing. She's the one that sealed the deal. She provided him with direction. The only thing Kallen was able to accomplish was to keep him from being a junkie.

[Rising Dragon]

I think we can agree on the fact that all three, Kallen, Rolo, and Shirley, were integral to getting Lelouch to continue on with his war against Britannia.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Please she gave him an option to continue being zero but not a good reason why. Rolo provided him with an alternative. Shirley gave him an actual good reason to continue doing what he's doing. She's the one that sealed the deal. She provided him with direction. The only thing Kallen was able to accomplish was to keep him from being a junkie.

No, Kallen was able to convince him to get off his ass and stop being depressed. He was Zero, and it was something he had good reason to be. He needed to rescue Nunnally, and she convinced him to keep trying. You're ignoring that he tried to chase her. Rolo tried to undo her work.

All Shirley did was stand there with an object she couldn't recollect which reminded Lelouch of Nunnally. You're inflating one piece of symbolism and acting like Shirley did it on purpose.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I think we can agree on the fact that all three, Kallen, Rolo, and Shirley, were integral to getting Lelouch to continue on with his war against Britannia.

Each in their own way, sure enough.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I think we can agree on the fact that all three, Kallen, Rolo, and Shirley, were integral to getting Lelouch to continue on with his war against Britannia.

Shirley yes. Rolo no he wanted him to stop. Kallen in that she stopped him from being a junkie, that's her only role. Her pleading could have gone on deaf ears for all we know.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Shirley yes. Rolo no he wanted him to stop. Kallen in that she stopped him from being a junkie, that's her only role. Her pleading could have gone on deaf ears for all we know.

So trying to chase after her means nothing to you?

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

No, Kallen was able to convince him to get off his ass and stop being depressed. He was Zero, and it was something he had good reason to be. He needed to rescue Nunnally, and she convinced him to keep trying. You're ignoring that he tried to chase her. Rolo tried to undo her work.

All Shirley did was stand there with an object she couldn't recollect which reminded Lelouch of Nunnally. You're inflating one piece of symbolism and acting like Shirley did it on purpose.

Each in their own way, sure enough.

And yet he didn't chase after her. He had an impulse but stopped himself because he wasn't sure he could go through with it. Nor did he agree that he was going to follow her advice. Then Rolo told him his alternative option. Just him considering things proves that she didn't convince jack. Chasing after her would have just been trying to please Kallen which wasn't a good enough reason to continue fighting. So how am I wrong?

[Lie]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Yeah well I backed up my thoughts about how Shirley has a better influence on Lelouch and his decisions with proof so how can I be biased when I have the proof. All you're telling me is that Kallen kept him alive and then go into a "what if" scenario of how Lelouch could have been influenced if he's given chase which I draw the line on evidence since that is a hypothetical scenario. Hell, I haven't seen any evidence of Kallen convincing Lelouch to do anything when he was in conflict through out the entire series which just proves that she can only provide comfort but no direction. Maybe your truth could be wrong. Maybe Kallen Really didn't have that much influence on Lelouch. Oh but if I dare confront Kalulu fans with logic or evidence to contradict Kalulu I'm either bias, prejudice, or crazy. How about you give me something substantial to work with first and then call me crazy.

You really haven't backed anything up. You keep repeating the same erroneous statement over and over. Something like what my CDs do from time to time when they get damaged.
For every instance of Shirley being a positive influence, I've cited an instance with Kallen. Saying one has been more positively influencial is bias, but I never even used that word until now. What I said, and what you have been doing, is raising Shirley on some pedestal while downplaying anything and everything about Kallen. That has been entirely evident in your posts with their oh-so troublesome contradictions.
I have remembered Kallen convince Lelouch (whether through words or her own actions) of taking several different actions through out the show, in both seasons. Though, admitadely, season 1 was about Lelouch's affects on Kallen than the reverse. Episode 7 in Season 2 is simply a poignant example of her giving him direction, even if it is blocked by Rolo. It still occured.
My truth? I've never said any such thing, citing points in the show where certain things occur rather obviously is not my truth. Downplaying them seems to be your truth though, as if giving Kallen a shred of favor would cause you to catch fire or something.
Now the fact that you've fallen to just dismissing people and hiding behind a fabricated morale high ground, just shows that your running out of shit to throw on Kallen's character.
I've never called you crazy either, so sorry. I simply said your points were backwards, contradictory (to which you admitted), and at times completely erroneous to the discussion at hand. The logic you use is at times so shallow and such a strawman that anyone could take it and say any character was a poor influence on Lelouch, or no influence at all.
As for evidence, I'm almost certain that me citing an episode over and over, and you ignoring it, over and over, is just you not wanting to face things that happened in the show.
But here, how about Episode 19? Kallen's actions to try and defend Lelouch made him take action again. He had no reason to do it, he was going to die. But he saved her. Goes to show that he cared, that she had an influence, and that he wanted her to live. If she had no influence, if she were just a pawn, then he wouldn't care, why should he? He was about to die. Or how about in the same episode, when she (if only slightly) managed to get him to move, talk, and wake up from his daze.

Shirley and Kallen are equally important and motivational to Lelouch. That was their role, they were his human side. When you stop downplaying one and realize this, then maybe...
PS: I'm a Shiruru and Karuru shipper, but don't let that stop you since I've not actually said a single negative thing about Shirley.

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

And yet he didn't chase after her. He had an impulse but stopped himself because he wasn't sure he could go through with it. Nor did he agree that he was going to follow her advice. Then Rolo told him his alternative option. Just him considering things proves that she didn't convince jack. Chasing after her would have just been trying to please Kallen which wasn't a good enough reason to continue fighting. So how am I wrong?

And now I know your pulling stuff from your rectum. He did not willfully stop himself, Rolo stopped him. Rolo... you know, that homicidal obsessive kid that killed Shirley.
What Rolo did was play off his weakness. A person who is convinced of something can still be derailed if hit in the right spot, that is what Rolo did that entire episode.
Trying to chase Kallen down was not just for Kallen, it was for himself. Saying anything else is a no-no. It is his war, the rebellion he started, he has an obligation to himself and to everyone he stepped over, to finish it. It was, further, the only way he could hope to get Nunally back.

[Rising Dragon]

Soooo... since I know there's a Kalulu-dedicated group and I'm sure there's a CluClu-dedicated group, I decided to make a ShirLulu-dedicated group. Anyone's free to join if they support the pairing.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Lie

And now I know your pulling stuff from your rectum. He did not willfully stop himself, Rolo stopped him. Rolo... you know, that homicidal obsessive kid that killed Shirley.
What Rolo did was play off his weakness. A person who is convinced of something can still be derailed if hit in the right spot, that is what Rolo did that entire episode.
Trying to chase Kallen down was not just for Kallen, it was for himself. Saying anything else is a no-no. It is his war, the rebellion he started, he has an obligation to himself and to everyone he stepped over, to finish it. It was, further, the only way he could hope to get Nunally back.

Ok now your talking. Actual things that did happen in the anime. I looked back and your right, he did take a step forward towards Kallen sorry I don't have the episode in my hardrive so I have to play everything by memory and episode summary. But I looked back at Kallen's argument of why Lelouch should continue fighting and it was pleading for him to continue to lie to her. It was just to make Kallen happy even if he did continue to be Zero but honestly, that doesn't make a very good reason for him to continue fighting. Or maybe he wasn't convinced at all and that he just wanted to explain himself to Kallen so that well she deserves at least that. Point is Rolo actually saved him from making a terrible mistake of biting more than he could chew. You don't go into battle with self doubt. He'd have probably given up at some point down the line or cause his own downfall when his drive to not actually win against Nunally gave in. Why because his whole motivation would have been a lie. So I still agree with my assessment that Kallen lack's the ability to influence him and give him drive. I blame her actual lack of experience with Lelouch. Which brings me back to the reason why she is inept in dealing with Lelouch. So yes, him considering Rolo's offer weather being preyed on by weakness or not and her crappy excuse to convince him still hasn't convince me.

Hey listen I know you like Kallen as a character but I don't find her shipping evidence good enough to actually be substantial enough to credit a good relationship. It's not that I have a hating for the character but the pairing makes no sense to me.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

But I looked back at Kallen's argument of why Lelouch should continue fighting and it was pleading for him to continue to lie to her.

She never mentions herself as an individual. She mentions us, as in the Black Knights, the Japanese, the people who he showed a dream and was throwing away.

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

It was just to make Kallen happy even if he did continue to be Zero but honestly, that doesn't make a very good reason for him to continue fighting.

Per the above, this is utter nonsense. It wasn't to make her happy, it was to finish what he started.

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Or maybe he wasn't convinced at all and that he just wanted to explain himself to Kallen so that well she deserves at least that.

If he wasn't convinced, he wouldn't follow her. Why should he care if what she said meant nothing to him? I have to ask if you're even trying now, because there is no logic in what you say.

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Point is Rolo actually saved him from making a terrible mistake of biting more than he could chew. You don't go into battle with self doubt. He'd have probably given up at some point down the line or cause his own downfall when his drive to not actually win against Nunally gave in. Why because his whole motivation would have been a lie.

He wouldn't have had self-doubt if not for Rolo. Rolo was the one making him doubt. Kallen snapped him out of it and Rolo tried to restore the damage he had done.

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

So I still agree with my assessment that Kallen lack's the ability to influence him and give him drive. I blame her actual lack of experience with Lelouch. Which brings me back to the reason why she is inept in dealing with Lelouch.

Yet you ignore the fact that she managed to knock him out of his depression, not once but twice. Hell, he calls her specifically when saving the Black Knights from Suzaku's siege in the first instance. Your assessment is horribly one-sided.

[kir44n]

Lets be fair here. Lelouch gave Kallen & the BK's HOPE by beginning his path as Zero. He started a movement. He had a responsibility as a leader to continue on with this. She reminded him of this. Yes, she told him to give her orders. She said to "continue the lie" up until the end. Mind, in this, she's refering to the lie that is "Zero" (showing that she's already beginning to have a grasp on what Zero is to Lelouch). She wanted him to continue showing the BK's his confidence as a leader even when he himself had none.

And whats this about her "Lack of experience with dealing with Lelouch"? What in the world. Kallen at least understands more aspects to Lelouch's character than Shirley O_o . You can't possibly bring that thing up without shooting shirley in the foot. Inept at dealing with Lelouch? What!?! Noone beats Shirley in ineptitude either, so you can't really use experience or the ability to deal with Lelouch as a means for Shirley to be "superior" to Kallen. It makes as much sense as the wookie defense for goodness sake.