Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Military and Government Discussion Thread

[Willowhugger]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

How exactly is Ribbons going to be beneficial to Azadistan? Did you not hear what Shirin said when she left Marina to go to Katharon? She said that Azadistan no longer has any future if it joins the Federation due to all the regulations they placed upon them . Did you not hear what the Federation done to Azadistan when they refused to join it? They basically twisted the countries arm into obeying them. And not to mention the fact that they kidnapped, interrogated, and imprisoned the head of state of Azadistan without any proper legal rights from the Federation. And let us not forget Ali and what he has done to the country. I'm sorry, but to me this all say's that the Azadistan citizens are going to be treated like dirt, and that they will be forced to live without any true rights for themselves.

No offense, but....how exactly is it going to be worse? The place is a civil war ridden nation on the verge of starvation (in fact-actually crossed over into it), with no economy, and pretty much on the verge of becoming another Solamnia. By the time the attack is done, there's no police force or any military either.

So, yes, by nature they pretty much have only up to go up. I think the situation is bad enough that we don't have to overdramatize it. Ribbons and his kind have no reason to needlessly discriminate against their conquests. They're fascists and conquerors, that's bad enough without making them racists to Azadistan in particular.

Originally Posted by Miles316

The only thing this will do is give Azadistan people something to hate like the Federation.

Maybe. They hated Marina for being useless. Ribbons might turn out to be a effective ruler to generate some moral ambiguity about the whole thing. I remind people, this is a show where the heroes are terrorists who CREATED the Federation.

Originally Posted by Miles316

In the first season the UN was regulating oil exports why are they regulating a depleted resource. Solar energy made fossil fuels obsolete.

One word: Plastics.

[miles316]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

No offense, but....how exactly is it going to be worse? The place is a civil war ridden nation on the verge of starvation (in fact-actually crossed over into it), with no economy, and pretty much on the verge of becoming another Solamnia. By the time the attack is done, there's no police force or any military either.

So, yes, by nature they pretty much have only up to go up. I think the situation is bad enough that we don't have to overdramatize it. Ribbons and his kind have no reason to needlessly discriminate against their conquests. They're fascists and conquerors, that's bad enough without making them racists to Azadistan in particular.



Maybe. They hated Marina for being useless. Ribbons might turn out to be a effective ruler to generate some moral ambiguity about the whole thing. I remind people, this is a show where the heroes are terrorists who CREATED the Federation.



One word: Plastics.

Using fossil fuels for plastics manufacturing is the first thing to go as they become more scarce and solar energy derived hydrogen and carbon will make it easier to make plastics than paying to ship oil from OPEC countries and refine it to make plastic. But why are they bothering to regulate a depleted resource who is buying it or wants to buy it any way. Its probably be more expensive to drill and pump or mine it than to buy it from the union, HRL. I can see it becoming worthless and the countries becoming destitute and the world trowing them by the wast side.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

One word: polymer.

fixed
I think it is better to used the term polymer in this sense rather than plastic.

[miles316]

Scientists are already working on developing bacteria fungus and plants that can produce hydrocarbons which are the building blocks of plastics even to day we can use corn starch to make plastic food containers. Biochemist have develop a Taylor made strain of E coli bacteria that can produce a nylon like plastic. Industry to day is starting to develop alternatives to oil to use as feed stock to make products normally made with petrochemicals.

[miles316]

Originally Posted by Sides

fixed
I think it is better to used the term polymer in this sense rather than plastic.

They can make polymers which plastics are out of any hydrocarbon source biological (plant mater), Electrolytically extracted hydrogen and carbon and even carbon dioxide. Does not have to be fossil fuel derived. Industrial scale plastic/polymer production only accounts for a small amount of crude oil use today. The United States to day could meet all its polymer need form domestic oil production if we did not need it for transportation.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by miles316

Using fossil fuels for plastics manufacturing is the first thing to go as they become more scarce and solar energy derived hydrogen and carbon will make it easier to make plastics than paying to ship oil from OPEC countries and refine it to make plastic. But why are they bothering to regulate a depleted resource who is buying it or wants to buy it any way. Its probably be more expensive to drill and pump or mine it than to buy it from the union, HRL. I can see it becoming worthless and the countries becoming destitute and the world trowing them by the wast side.

Look at it another way; the necessary research to create the Elevator means they almost certainly perfected carbon nanotube technology, AND thus derived the E-Carbon material all the MS are made from. If you can make cables of nanotube stretching out into space, and blocks of nanotube capable of functioning as armor, then inferior/cheaper versions of the material is certainly capable of replacing fossil fuel polymers.

[Willowhugger]

True.

I still think oil would have a value even when Solar Power has replaced it as an energy source. If nothing else, Azadistan can become the world's chewing gum manufacturer.

[miles316]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Look at it another way; the necessary research to create the Elevator means they almost certainly perfected carbon nanotube technology, AND thus derived the E-Carbon material all the MS are made from. If you can make cables of nanotube stretching out into space, and blocks of nanotube capable of functioning as armor, then inferior/cheaper versions of the material is certainly capable of replacing fossil fuel polymers.

Thank you are right. The debate we are having is why does the UN they regulate hydrocarbon exports in the show.

[Willowhugger]

Originally Posted by miles316

Thank you are right. The debate we are having is why does the UN they regulate hydrocarbon exports in the show.

The actual answer probably boils down to the Azadistan unstable political situation. Given Azadistan has conquered the Kurdish Republic apparently through military force, it's quite likely the embargo on Marina's nation results from that.

*waits for No-Prize or Rep*

[Sides]

Originally Posted by miles316

They can make polymers which plastics are out of any hydrocarbon source biological (plant mater), Electrolytically extracted hydrogen and carbon and even carbon dioxide. Does not have to be fossil fuel derived. Industrial scale plastic/polymer production only accounts for a small amount of crude oil use today. The United States to day could meet all its polymer need form domestic oil production if we did not need it for transportation.

Actually i have no clue what this is about, i just saw someone using the word plastic. ^_^

[miles316]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

The actual answer probably boils down to the Azadistan unstable political situation. Given Azadistan has conquered the Kurdish Republic apparently through military force, it's quite likely the embargo on Marina's nation results from that.

*waits for No-Prize or Rep*

The regulation was a blanket one when they talk about it in the show. Towards all oil exporting countries not just Azadistan.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by miles316

Thank you are right. The debate we are having is why does the UN they regulate hydrocarbon exports in the show.

All the UN nations want to monopolize power generation. So cutting hydrocarbon fuel supply is a good way to maintain premium prices for solar power.

Think about it this way; if as an example, all the known fossil fuel supply were centered in North America, China, and Germany, then everyone else would have to beg the world powers for fuel. And this lends to my theory on how no new nuclear power-plants were constructed in 00, as the world powers wouldn't allow it.

[miles316]

The main reason the hole UN OIL regulation scheme in the show is I am a History major with a minor in political science in college so if any one has read the Novel or listened to the audio drama drop me a hint please.

[Willowhugger]

As a note, it's NOT blanket.

It's against Azadistan.

There's A LOT of regulations in place against other nations, however.

[miles316]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

All the UN nations want to monopolize power generation. So cutting hydrocarbon fuel supply is a good way to maintain premium prices for solar power.

Think about it this way; if as an example, all the known fossil fuel supply were centered in North America, China, and Germany, then everyone else would have to beg the world powers for fuel. And this lends to my theory on how no new nuclear power-plants were constructed in 00, as the world powers wouldn't allow it.

Practically all nations on the earth are part of the UN why would they cooperate with a hydrocarbon restrictions just to benefit the UNION AEU HRL. The countries of those three blocks are today the biggest consumers of oil. After 4 hundred years of use the supply of hydrocarbons left would be minimal and expensive to exploit making solar cheaper to use than fossil fuels meaning the major population centers in the three major blocks would be energy independent.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by miles316

Practically all nations on the earth are part of the UN why would they cooperate with a hydrocarbon restrictions just to benefit the UNION AEU HRL. The countries of those three blocks are today the biggest consumers of oil. After 4 hundred years of use the supply of hydrocarbons left would be minimal and expensive to exploit making solar cheaper to use than fossil fuels meaning the major population centers in the three major blocks would be energy independent.

Yes, the world powers themselves are the major consumer of power. But as power suppliers, there is still an economical incentive to keep the high price for power outside of their territory.

Further, don't forget that a solar-power monopoly also means political power. You can make people DO things... Like forcing them to join the Federation at restrictive terms.

[miles316]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Yes, the world powers themselves are the major consumer of power. But as power suppliers, there is still an economical incentive to keep the high price for power outside of their territory.

Further, don't forget that a solar-power monopoly also means political power. You can make people DO things... Like forcing them to join the Federation at restrictive terms.

With a market system it would be easier to under cut fossil fuels buy getting the price of solar energy dirt cheep were oil could not compete. It would be simpler than the UN to regulating it. Their is precedent in the after math of the Arab oil embargo the Regan administration forced Saudi Arabia to open the oil valve tanking the oil market which started the price of oil to go down until the Soviet Union hews entire economy was based on the export of oil collapsed in 1991 ending the cold war. Subsidizing solar energy receptors and long term energy contracts would be make it impossible to compete with solar energy.

[SonicSP]

Wasn't it mentioned in 00F that countries would have to pay money for how much carbon emissions they produced in an attempt to slow global warming (It's still a large problem apearently) which would make the usage of fossil fuels costly?







I wonder how many % of the world is part of the ESF?

[miles316]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

Wasn't it mentioned in 00F that countries would have to pay money for how much carbon emissions they produced in an attempt to slow global warming (It's still a large problem apearently) which would make the usage of fossil fuels costly?







I wonder how many % of the world is part of the ESF?

the ESF major countries Union, AEU, HRL are both major solar energy suppliers and have the bulk of the worlds industrial capacity so their carbon output through fossil fuel would be negligible which means that the ESF would have the smallest carbon output. The ESF would probably require the member countries to completely give up fossil fuel use as a prerequisite to member ship. The ESF % of carbon is probably 1% or lower.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I wonder how many % of the world is part of the ESF?

It's never been mentioned to my knowledge. I find it strange enough that the Federation has apparently subsumed the three powers to the extent that none of the original leaders seem to have a voice any more.