[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 339 Discussion

[Chosen]

What I do not seem to understand right now, is how the captains got so strong? In the beginning of the manga Ichigo fought some of the captains equally, and still he was no way near the espadas level back then, he have grown sooo much and still have problems fighting the espada.

The Bankai seemed to be no problem for the espada to handle when Ichigo used it, and zero was such a great skill! But now they all seem so weak?

[Blerghovic]

Originally Posted by Langus

BINGO.

People are already complaining about Ichigo defeating Ulq being plotkai. It's not. Ulq has ALREADY stated back when they first met (BEFORE he had decent control of his Vizard half) that Ichigo's powers when they were at their strength exceeded his own.

This was during his fight with Yammy. Think of how much Ichigo has grown as a fighter since then! If his fight with Grimmjow is any indication it's been a lot.

->His first attempt to fight GJ he lost and GJ wasn't even in his released form. This last attempt he soundly defeated him in his released form. That's a big improvement.

I don't see any reason at all why Ichigo giving Ulq a decent fight right now is plotkai. It isn't. He may need another talk with Zangetsu to power up before he can DEFEAT him, but he's not going to walk into this fight to get thrashed around. He'll hold his own.

Ulqui said that Ichigo's reiatsu was higher than his when his hollow was interfering with Ichigo's. So, if we assume that Ichigo in Vizard mode is now quite a bit stronger than back then, he should be able to take Ulqui's unreleased form.

However, Ulquiorra was able to take Ichigo's absolute strongest attack using only his hands; this suggests that Ichigo will need a lot more power if he wants to beat Ulqui's inevitably ultra-hax release. Of course, he did seem to power up during his fight with Grimmjow, but I don't think that's enough.

IMO, Ulqui's release > Vizard Ichigo. This means that Ichigo will need either a 'Zangetsu power-up' or he will need to learn how to really use his vizard form (cero etc.)

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Utsukushii Hono'o

I won't remind you he just got finished fighting Grimmjow when Nnoitra appeared.

Why would you need to remind me of that? I didn't mention anywhere in my post Nnoitra at all, because as far as anyone's concerned, between the end of the Ichigo vs. Grimmjow battle and the beginning of the Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra battle, Ichigo was nothing more than a Terry Shaivo vegetable and was worthless against Nnoitra...My context still stands with or without Nnoitra anyway, because Ulquiorra is a higher ranking Espada than Nnoitra...

Ulq already said . "At times his reiastu is greater than mine"

Chapter 193, page 20: Ulquiorra notes that in concern to Ichigo's spiritual power, Ichigo has a large range of fluctuation, going anywhere from comparatively weak at his lowest to invariably stronger at his highest...Yes, it's possible that Ichigo can absolutely overwhelm Ulquiorra at any point in battle, but Ulquiorra's deduction shows Ichigo has no consistency over the controlled output of his spiritual power...Depending on Ichigo's ability to focus, he can overwhelm Ulquiorra just as easily as he can fuck the entire battle up, and we all know how many times Ichigo has fucked up in the middle of battle, only to be saved by some sort of divine intervention that acts as an enemy stopgap...

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Hiraishin

Ulqui said that Ichigo's reiatsu was higher than his when his hollow was interfering with Ichigo's. So, if we assume that Ichigo in Vizard mode is now quite a bit stronger than back then, he should be able to take Ulqui's unreleased form.

However, Ulquiorra was able to take Ichigo's absolute strongest attack using only his hands; this suggests that Ichigo will need a lot more power if he wants to beat Ulqui's inevitably ultra-hax release. Of course, he did seem to power up during his fight with Grimmjow, but I don't think that's enough.

IMO, Ulqui's release > Vizard Ichigo. This means that Ichigo will need either a 'Zangetsu power-up' or he will need to learn how to really use his vizard form (cero etc.)

You make a good point, but your facts are a bit backwards...

Ichigo's reiatsu was at its strongest when his hollow wasn't interfering. When it did start interfering to "sabotage" him is when his power levels started fluctuating wildly and he became "trash".

[Calca]

Reiatsu isn't everything. Skill, experience and emotionally stability play into this too.

[Utsukushii Hono'o]

Wow Halibel looks wicked! For some reason her grill reminds me of a buzzard. I hope she doesn't turn about to be a piranha and her abilities are water based. That would just suck! I love her sword!

Anyway ... back to HM! I am so happy...it's about time.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Langus

You make a good point, but your facts are a bit backwards...

Ichigo's reiatsu was at its strongest when his hollow wasn't interfering. When it did start interfering to "sabotage" him is when his power levels started fluctuating wildly and he became "trash".

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Why would you need to remind me of that? I didn't mention anywhere in my post Nnoitra at all, because as far as anyone's concerned, between the end of the Ichigo vs. Grimmjow battle and the beginning of the Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra battle, Ichigo was nothing more than a Terry Shaivo vegetable and was worthless against Nnoitra...My context still stands with or without Nnoitra anyway, because Ulquiorra is a higher ranking Espada than Nnoitra...



Chapter 193, page 20: Ulquiorra notes that in concern to Ichigo's spiritual power, Ichigo has a large range of fluctuation, going anywhere from comparatively weak at his lowest to invariably stronger at his highest...Yes, it's possible that Ichigo can absolutely overwhelm Ulquiorra at any point in battle, but Ulquiorra's deduction shows Ichigo has no consistency over the controlled output of his spiritual power...Depending on Ichigo's ability to focus, he can overwhelm Ulquiorra just as easily as he can fuck the entire battle up, and we all know how many times Ichigo has fucked up in the middle of battle, only to be saved by some sort of divine intervention that acts as an enemy stopgap...

MidnightViper88 is right. Like remember when Ichigo owned 3 VC and stopped that phoenix bird like thing? He was only at Shikai but yet he was amazingly strong. Ever since then you haven't seen Ichigo own like that.

[Blerghovic]

Originally Posted by Langus

You make a good point, but your facts are a bit backwards...

Ichigo's reiatsu was at its strongest when his hollow wasn't interfering. When it did start interfering to "sabotage" him is when his power levels started fluctuating wildly and he became "trash".

I don't think I worded it very well. What I was trying to say was that the hollow's reiatsu was causing Ichigo's to fluctuate between very high (when Ichigo's reiatsu was being strengthened by the hollow's) and very low (when Ichigo's reiatsu was being suppressed by the hollow's).

[SeanQ]

Wth...are you people talking about right now...
Vizard Ichigo becoming more powerful...? He was always stronger than Grimmjow when he was in his hollow form...the only thing that changed after their first fight is that he was able to hold the form much longer...
And when Ichigo fought Ulqi, he barely scratched him in his hollow form, so...I would say it is plotkai if Ichigo was to be able to beat released Ulqi...
Ichigo gets more strength when he puts on the mask, but once that mask is on...he's not going to any stronger, the only thing that improves is his limit of time he can hold that mask...so...yeah...
________
SexxyMolly

[Wargumm1i]

Originally Posted by Freya

I wouldn't expect much. UNLESS Ichigo suddenly somehow got a power boost in the battle with Grimjow OR Ichigo gets owned badly and all of a sudden gets a power boost like in Kenpachi battle.

Or he learns a new Hollow ability like Cero or learns to do a Visored resurrection unleashed mode version of Espada, you know use the sword to transform

[Hav0kkx]

Originally Posted by Langus

You make a good point, but your facts are a bit backwards...

Ichigo's reiatsu was at its strongest when his hollow wasn't interfering. When it did start interfering to "sabotage" him is when his power levels started fluctuating wildly and he became "trash".

Really? I thought it was because of his hollow coming in he became much more powerful, since it was basically bringing out his mask (even though it wasn't shown), which showed his hollows reiatsu, mixed with Ichigo's currently reiatsu, making it very unstable, and is why at one point he was "trash" (current level) and then he was extremely high, because of his hollow's strength leaking out... I don't think his hollow was necessary "sabotaging" him, I thought he was just coming out to take over and fight like he did against Byakuya, due to the immense hollow reiatsu luring him out from Ulq/Yammy.



And if he was strongest when the hollow wasn't interfering, how can a unmasked Ichigo at that point in time be stronger than Ulq? He lost twice to Grimjow without his mask, I doubt at that point of time he was stronger than Ulq.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by HazardNights

Wouldn't be so sure. He's only now pulling out his Bankai. Not saying he's going to walk all over her but I don't think he's going to be dominated the way some seem to think.

Come on!He definetly will get beaten up, sadly not killed -_-

Because he is weak and Halibel is strong. Just look at his previouse fights. He didn't even put a scratch on Lupi but Grimmjaw killed him with one hit! And he is only number 6!
If to be at some point realistic picture should be like this:
Grimmjaw kills Hitsugaya with half a hit and Halibel kills him with one look 0_0

[Black-Cat-Sama]

Originally Posted by Hav0kkx

Really? I thought it was because of his hollow coming in he became much more powerful, since it was basically bringing out his mask (even though it wasn't shown), which showed his hollows reiatsu, mixed with Ichigo's currently reiatsu, making it very unstable, and is why at one point he was "trash" (current level) and then he was extremely high, because of his hollow's strength leaking out... I don't think his hollow was necessary "sabotaging" him, I thought he was just coming out to take over and fight like he did against Byakuya, due to the immense hollow reiatsu luring him out from Ulq/Yammy.



And if he was strongest when the hollow wasn't interfering, how can a unmasked Ichigo at that point in time be stronger than Ulq? He lost twice to Grimjow without his mask, I doubt at that point of time he was stronger than Ulq.

nah , check back to when Ulquiorra stopped grimmy from possibly releasing on SHinji. Ichigo's Hollow mask was gone for a while and he was there on the floor and Ulqi noticed Ichigo still had reitsu left. he then comments about how at moments in time, Ichigo's power surpasses his own. It's clear set that f the mask can last longer, Ichigo will win through something.... though, Ulq. has only held back until this point who knows....

[MidnightViper88]

The reason why Ichigo's power fluctuated so largely during the first encounter with Ulquiorra and Yammy was because this was before Ichigo could even gain control over his inner hollow...Ichigo was doing fine in dealing with Yammy, able to slice through Yammy's hierro and sever Yammy's right arm with his bankai, because of his resolve to protect Orihime when Yammy started to target her...However, Ichigo got thrown off focus when Yammy started to draw his zanpakuto, giving Ichigo a mental conflict in trying to comprehend what kind of enemy Yammy was, giving his inner hollow the chance to try to take over Ichigo's body in the middle of the battle...His concentration was intense at first, but his resolve easily waned when he shifted all attention and concentration in suppressing his hollow from coming out...

At that point, it isn't necessarily relevant in continuation with his later Visored powers, but because he had yet to control his inner hollow, his spiritual power fluctuated widely depending on the state he was in...

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Freya

Soi Fong? She was getting thrashed a bit by a fraccion so i doubt she'll be able to defeat Halibel.

I think you didn't notice the fact that she allowed to get beaten 0_o

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by The Small One

There weren't this many possibilities for the ranking anyways (6).



Well, the less of the mask remains, the better the transformation is.
Though, maybe she even is a vaizard. The main difference in the apearance of Arrankar and Vaizard is, that Arrankars have a hole in their chest, as a singn that they are hollows.
And I can't see a hole...

Now that you mentioned it... I also haven't see hole anywhere 0_0 I thought it will be under clothes but it definetly isn't there! 0_0

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Hiraishin

Ulqui's inevitably ultra-hax release.

Susanoo and Mangekyou Sharingan

Anyone notice how in the chapter Stark's bottom mask looked like Ichigo's mask same with Halibel's maybe Kubo is trying to hint at Ichigo's hollow level on the inside.

[kitten320]

I would be really happy if Hichigo (Shirosaki) would awaken during their fight^^

[kissthestick]

Originally Posted by Utsukushii Hono'o

Wait a second! Ichigo is in the chapter?! *Holy Joyful News Batman!* Ok I was stalling but now I must read the chapter.

I did see raw pics...I want to know how many Halibel fanboys died a little inside when she revealed her number?

Numbers dont really mean shit anymore since they're the top 3 in hueco mundo apart from aizen

[RDF2050]

Yeah Stark is the first i'm so happy i am correct hopefully find what is his power