Why stop the anime's torrents once it's licensed by an american company?

[7thMethuselah]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalton

Point being... without fansubs the anime industry wouldnt sell half as much in foreign countries... ALL HAIL OUR LORDS AND MASTERS THE FLUFFIES!!!

True fansubs made anime popular and have been increasing sales BUT that was when they were in the underground. Once they become too well known and to easilly available they will be hurting sales since alot of people will be leeching instead of buying. A perfect example of that is the way the music business went down the drain once everyone got the mp3's of the net.

[Joe Dalton]

Actualy the music businis went down the drain when instead of producing quality it produced quantity... noone wants 2 pay for most of the shit they make now... I guess you can convert this 2 DBZ and such

[ichido reichan]

at the end of the line, anime will become so cheap that a channel will be created and will just milk on ratings and such, you dont pay to watch "friends" "the simpsons" or your favorite show here, but also Anime must be given to the people with a different market reach.

How many of us just dream in having a 24 "real" anime channel, with japanese audio with english subs.

Dude, this is entertaiment, nothing more, japanese people worry so much about investment and things like that, that they closed the market for all of us.

all the companies here are mere "private agencies" that buy anime and put a ridiculous price on the tag for us.

why a 2 hour movie (american) costs 19.95 when an anime dvd ranges from 25.00 for just 3 episodes? of tv stuff?

Anime must be sold in $1 per episode basis, that way we can buy the complete sets for just 25-30 bucks, and special OVAS, at least $4 bucks for it
so each dvd will cost like the manga volume... just 10-13 bucks per pop.

And video clubs must have a rack with the latest releases in anime.

JOIN DA REVOLUTION!!!

[kj1980]

□□□□■□□□□□■□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□
□□□■■□□□□□■□□□□□□□■■■■■■■■■■■■□□
□□■■□□□□□■■■■■■□□□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□
□■■□□■□□□■□□□□■□□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□
□□■□■■□□■■■□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□
□□□■■□□■■□■■■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□
□□■■□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□
□□■□□□■□□□■■■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■■■■■■□□■■□□■■□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□■■□□□□■■□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□■□■□■□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□■□■□■□□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■■□■□■□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■□□■□□□□■■■□□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□□□□■■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□■■■■□□□□□□□

[zalas]

Originally Posted by ichido reichan

why a 2 hour movie (american) costs 19.95 when an anime dvd ranges from 25.00 for just 3 episodes? of tv stuff?

If anime on that DVD made $8 per viewing for a couple hundred thousand people opening weekend, then I'm sure they'd be able to drop the price.

[7thMethuselah]

Originally Posted by ichido reichan

all the companies here are mere "private agencies" that buy anime and put a ridiculous price on the tag for us.

why a 2 hour movie (american) costs 19.95 when an anime dvd ranges from 25.00 for just 3 episodes? of tv stuff?

Anime must be sold in $1 per episode basis, that way we can buy the complete sets for just 25-30 bucks, and special OVAS, at least $4 bucks for it
so each dvd will cost like the manga volume... just 10-13 bucks per pop.

And video clubs must have a rack with the latest releases in anime.

JOIN DA REVOLUTION!!!

I agree that anime DVD are rather expensive (all DVD are for that matter), but in Japan they cost alot more for two episodes a disc. If the price would drop I'd buy more DVD's for sure.

However I think the real issue is not how many DVD's you buy or how much money you invest but the issue is if you are buying anything at all, wether you are returning some money to the ones that brought the entertainment to you.

Fansubs are intended to promote anime that is not available to us otherwise , not to replace the official releases. So once an official release has been announced links to licensed should be removed.

Someone commented they don't wanna spend alot of money on DVD's without knowing what's on them. I agree since DVD aren't cheap, therefore I thought it was a good initiative by a certain company (sry can't remember which one) to release mini-DVD's that have 1 episode on them for 5-6 $ in order to promote the show. Also, once licensed many shows have been up for quite a while and i'd say you've had a fair chance to see them in advance. Not to mention quite a few shows make it to TV as well where they can be seen before you buy them. So I see no reason to keep licensed stuff available on torrents.

[DrWho2002]

Just my two cents... a lot of people say they won't buy stuff without seeing it first via fansubs. I think that is an ok philosophy for about the first few eps (3-5 or so). After that, I don't think that argument can apply anymore. Do you really need to "preview" the *whole series*? I don't think so.

[microlith]

How many of us just dream in having a 24 "real" anime channel, with japanese audio with english subs.

Many but not enough to matter. They still include the Japanese audio and subs on the DVDs though.

all the companies here are mere "private agencies" that buy anime and put a ridiculous price on the tag for us.

If by "ridiculous" you mean "prices less than half per disc (often with more episodes) than their Japanese counterparts" then yes, they are. Ridiculously good.

why a 2 hour movie (american) costs 19.95 when an anime dvd ranges from 25.00 for just 3 episodes? of tv stuff?

A movie runs internationally and recoups most if not all of the production costs at that time. DVD release is just gravy for them. Most anime dvd releases right now are wholly dependent on DVD sales to recoup licensing and production costs. A lot of JP companies also rely on international sales and licenses to fund series creation to begin with.

Anime must be sold in $1 per episode basis, that way we can buy the complete sets for just 25-30 bucks, and special OVAS, at least $4 bucks for it
so each dvd will cost like the manga volume... just 10-13 bucks per pop.

What you ask is unreasonable. Even if a boxed set for an entire series cost $25, 20000 people could buy it and that wouldn't be enough to cover licensing and production expenses, much less make a profit. Then the Japanese licensors would have a fit because they'd be eaten alive with entire series costing half what one disc does there (damaging their business.)

So no, anime will never cost $1 per episode. Not when that episode cost $200,000 to make.

And video clubs must have a rack with the latest releases in anime.

Then I suggest you encourage your local video rental place to stock more anime. Many do, and stock more and more by the day.

[Yogo_Pogo]

Maybe it's the fact that you have the impression that your doing something for someone else. Buying a DVD is for you, not for the company or the producer. Yes, buying is a way of thanking them. I buy manga an will buy dvds because i liked the manga or anime and want it that's all. Why should i say that i really deeply care for others if that's not really true? When a buy a manga, i don't say: " WOW she/he can have money!!", i say wow now i will have fun. I red a post that was on page two and that person was harsh can't remember the name of the user but that's not important. Beeing poor is sad, it's tiring, it's depressing. When you can afford an internet connection doesn't mean you can afford more. DVD are not cheap. it's a lot of money to spend so it's normal that someone will want to keep is money.

I hate dubs, i only like subs. Maybe the dvds license should look at what fansubers do and do better (i wonder if they can?) so they will keep the market. fansubers improve their work and the one doing licenses should do the same. Like that fansub do the promotion and the license do the money.

There is a law that aply to everybody that says that everyone is free. So every body take their freedom. But there is a problem, people doesn't not seems to know that liberty comes with responsability and consequences. A person that is only leeching or only looking at fansubs without buying got the right to do it, but he or she got to deals with the consequences. He or she got to think too about this other law, our liberty ends where the liberty of others begins. The fan can do what he wants that's right, but the ones offering him is entertainement can do so too.

[Mcdonalds]

Originally Posted by yogo_pogo

I hate dubs, i only like subs. Maybe the dvds license should look at what fansubers do and do better (i wonder if they can?) so they will keep the market. fansubers improve their work and the one doing licenses should do the same. Like that fansub do the promotion and the license do the money.

From what i hear, the subs on dvd releases are far better quality than fansubbers as they translate from the scripts of the anime, rather than listening to it and reinterpreting what they hear

[Kyuven]

Originally Posted by Mcdonalds

From what i hear, the subs on dvd releases are far better quality than fansubbers as they translate from the scripts of the anime, rather than listening to it and reinterpreting what they hear

it's true, although there is a sizeable amount of localization going on (why they wanna localize subtitles is beyond me) such as dropping honorifics (which is quite hilarious when a joke relies on honorifics and the subs don't include them )

[frowndog]

How many of us just dream in having a 24 "real" anime channel, with japanese audio with english subs.

Come here to SE Asia, we have a 24 hour anime channel called Animax.

Originally Posted by kj1980

□□□□■□□□□□■□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□
□□□■■□□□□□■□□□□□□□■■■■■■■■■■■■□□
□□■■□□□□□■■■■■■□□□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□
□■■□□■□□□■□□□□■□□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□
□□■□■■□□■■■□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□
□□□■■□□■■□■■■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□
□□■■□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□
□□■□□□■□□□■■■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■■■■■■□□■■□□■■□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□■■□□□□■■□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□■□■□■□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□■□■□■□□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■■□■□■□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■□□■□□□□■■■□□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□□□□■■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□■■■■□□□□□□□

i'd have to agree. this horse has been totally beaten to death. Let's just accept the fact that some people cannot see the reason in having copyright law and the thin thread of moral ethics that fansubbing is clinging on to. (nice ascii art by the way)

[LynnieS]

Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah

I agree that anime DVD are rather expensive (all DVD are for that matter), but in Japan they cost alot more for two episodes a disc. If the price would drop I'd buy more DVD's for sure.

I believe that the quality of the episodes on a Japanese R2 DVD is higher than that of a R1 disc.

Blurb on CDJapan.

I also remember reading somewhere that someone had qualitatively checked as well; don't ask me how it was done, though.

However I think the real issue is not how many DVD's you buy or how much money you invest but the issue is if you are buying anything at all, wether you are returning some money to the ones that brought the entertainment to you.

Quite true. No one can indefinitely support a supply of pure leaches for absolutely no return other than gratitude for free goods and services, esp. if their costs - getting authorization to animate the manga (if one exists), renting the studio, paying the salaries of actors, artists, technicians, janitors, etc. - continue to need to be paid.

Even if it becomes subsidized by a government as a cultural worthwhile industry, it's still paid for by taxes. The only winners there are taxcheats and accountants.

If the industry dies, then everyone is screwed, ne?

But as frowndog had said, some people feel differently and can't be convinced otherwise.

Someone commented they don't wanna spend alot of money on DVD's without knowing what's on them. I agree since DVD aren't cheap, therefore I thought it was a good initiative by a certain company (sry can't remember which one) to release mini-DVD's that have 1 episode on them for 5-6 $ in order to promote the show. Also, once licensed many shows have been up for quite a while and i'd say you've had a fair chance to see them in advance. Not to mention quite a few shows make it to TV as well where they can be seen before you buy them. So I see no reason to keep licensed stuff available on torrents.

This is, I think, ADV. I'm actually not sure if the project is all that great for the consumer, to be honest. A R1 disc costs, on average, US$30, and often, web-based shops sell them cheaper; TokyoPop's "Initial D", for example, costs US$20 per disc, but Deep Discount DVD sells them for US$12.

Let's say that a disc has four episodes and you bought it for US$25. Assume the extras (interviews and such) are free. That's US$6.25 per episode.

If you bought the single-ep disc and don't like what you saw, you just saved $20 and bought that first episode for $1.25 less than the other person. Great!

If you liked it and bought the actual disc, however, you've just spent $30, or $7.50 per actual episode.

The project, I think, only benefits those who are sitting on the fence for a particular series, but then, I usually knows what I like and buys the things whenever I have the money.

/me wonders if there's a hole in my logic...

[7thMethuselah]

Originally Posted by LynnieS

I

The project, I think, only benefits those who are sitting on the fence for a particular series, but then, I usually knows what I like and buys the things whenever I have the money.

/me wonders if there's a hole in my logic...

Well, I thought it was a great idea to preview a show you've heard alot about without having to spend alot of money right away. 6-7$ isn't a big disaster if you happen to dislike the series. But it's pobably true that most people allready know what they are gonna buy before they enter the store (I know I do)

[Doddler]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalton

... also you have a straaaaaaaange definition of a "perfect" world =/

Maybe, but I think everyone here expects to get paid for work they do, but many don't expect to have to pay for other people's work. Isn't that strange?

[AvatarADV]

Originally Posted by LynnieS

I believe that the quality of the episodes on a Japanese R2 DVD is higher than that of a R1 disc.

Blurb on CDJapan.

I also remember reading somewhere that someone had qualitatively checked as well; don't ask me how it was done, though.

Patently untrue, to the point of total ignorance. You can't use a lossy-compressed source to make a DVD (well, okay, you can, but -urgh- it would be ugly!)

There are a few sources of differences between R1 and R2 quality:

- Condition of masters. This is generally only an issue for older shows - new stuff is all on modern master tapes, which just don't get age problems (not that anybody's tried one twenty years later, heh.)

- Disc content. If you're only going to put one or two episodes on a disc, bandwidth isn't an issue - just encode as close to the maximum as your audio will let you. OTOH, US DVDs usually have at least 3 and as many as 6-7 episodes on them; you have to lower the average bitrate of your encode somewhat to fit all of it on there. So long as you have no more than three episodes on a single-layer disc, you're okay; four or five episodes on a dual-layer disc; any more than that and you're going to have to compress everything a bit more.

So, in a way, the video quality of R2 discs will average slightly better, simply because they're hardly packing the discs. But the R1 discs usually make up for this by using dual-layer discs, giving them the space to keep up.

- Audio. A lot of Japanese R2 discs use PCM uncompressed audio rather than Dolby stereo encodes. Not quite sure -why- this is the case - the quality difference is minimal and the PCM track takes up a lot more bandwidth that can be used for shiny video.

Of course, the R1 discs will have (at least) two audio tracks on them, meaning that things like dual full-bitrate DTS tracks are impractical; you can do it, but you're chopping your max bitrate by a third, and that shows up in the video! (This is why you'll see very little DTS anime in R1.)

All that said, NONE of these have anything to do with how much the Japanese R2 costs. ;p

[SirCanealot]

Originally Posted by DrWho2002

Just my two cents... a lot of people say they won't buy stuff without seeing it first via fansubs. I think that is an ok philosophy for about the first few eps (3-5 or so). After that, I don't think that argument can apply anymore. Do you really need to "preview" the *whole series*? I don't think so.

Of course you need to watch the whole series to be able to judge it. Some series I've seen have gotten good half way through. Some have gotten crap half way through.

A movie runs internationally and recoups most if not all of the production costs at that time. DVD release is just gravy for them.

Actually, no. Most films in total don't even break it even at the box office. Most films loose hollywood huge ammounts of money. Merchendising is essential to helping films break even. Heh, Hollywood is only really sustained by the huge films that DO make it. Marchedising isn't just gravy, it's an essential part of the pie.

Patently untrue, to the point of total ignorance. You can't use a lossy-compressed source to make a DVD (well, okay, you can, but -urgh- it would be ugly!)

Once again, that depends on your Authoring methods. I think a lot of uber geeks over on doom9 would disagree, haha ^_¬
But of course, it's still not as good as comming from the proper masters...

Audio. A lot of Japanese R2 discs use PCM uncompressed audio rather than Dolby stereo encodes. Not quite sure -why- this is the case - the quality difference is minimal and the PCM track takes up a lot more bandwidth that can be used for shiny video.

Well, as you said bandwidth isn't a problem with 2 episodes on a disk. And I think it really depends on the sound system you're running on, how good your ears are, and the type of audio. Remember, LPCM is just like CD-Audio, and DD just like an mp3. Why have silver, when you've got the money (disk space) for gold? I have a bit of a bone with R1 companies and audio authoring - allthough it seems we're getting at least above 192kbs DD these days -_-

And, allthough from screen shots I've seen comparing R1 and R2 anime (which are very few), the Japanese realease has looked better some of the time. But it's not like it's a constant thing. Across the broad medium of all DVDs, I've seen some terror stories from Japanese DVDs. Godzilla? I've seen screenshots comparing the R2Jap release, and the R1USA Release. The Japanese realse looked awful, and the American release looked amazing (and Sony compressed the movie down to 2.2gigs, hahaha) :/
So it's not like it's a sure thing. You're going to get a lot of good looking DVDs, and bad looking DVDs from both regions. Highest quality authoring? My ass... I'll just post the link to AnimePhile http://catsspat.dyndns.org:2080/anime/index.html
Heh, it just depends on luck. Who's authoring it, and how hard they feel like working on the day, haha

[Yogo_Pogo]

Originally Posted by Mcdonalds

From what i hear, the subs on dvd releases are far better quality than fansubbers as they translate from the scripts of the anime, rather than listening to it and reinterpreting what they hear

I said that because i really like how fansubs do their thing, they have different color of subs, the karaoké and all...

[boneyjellyfish]

Originally Posted by Yogo_Pogo

I said that because i really like how fansubs do their thing, they have different color of subs, the karaoké and all...

Yeah, some fansub groups even have different color fonts based on the color of the speaker's hair. It's really cool, and it really makes the whole release more enjoyable.

Also, many times fansub groups re-do their karaoke scripts after the singles are officially released. That way they have the official lyrics with them, which means to more guessing!

Originally Posted by kj1980

□□□□■□□□□□■□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□
□□□■■□□□□□■□□□□□□□■■■■■■■■■■■■□□
□□■■□□□□□■■■■■■□□□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□
□■■□□■□□□■□□□□■□□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□
□□■□■■□□■■■□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□
□□□■■□□■■□■■■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□
□□■■□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□
□□■□□□■□□□■■■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■■■■■■□□■■□□■■□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□■■□□□□■■□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□■□■□■□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□■□■□■□□□□□■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■■□■□■□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□■□□■□□□□■■■□□□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□□□□■■■□□□□□□□□□□■□□□□□□□
□□□□■□□□□□□□□■■□□□□□□■■■■□□□□□□□

Wow! HOW did you get the filled-in black boxes? Is it one of those fancy-shmancy alt-number combination things on the numpad? It seems like whenever I make a mistake on that, I always get the empty box at least.

éôd╢äf╝z↕Zpvql{╓

What the heck is that last one?!

[hentai_wolf]

Originally Posted by AvatarADV

- Disc content. If you're only going to put one or two episodes on a disc, bandwidth isn't an issue - just encode as close to the maximum as your audio will let you. OTOH, US DVDs usually have at least 3 and as many as 6-7 episodes on them; you have to lower the average bitrate of your encode somewhat to fit all of it on there. So long as you have no more than three episodes on a single-layer disc, you're okay; four or five episodes on a dual-layer disc; any more than that and you're going to have to compress everything a bit more.

The first DVD for Azumanga Daioh has the same number of episodes for both the R1 and the R2. And yet, the R1 has a significantly lower average bitrate. So lowering the bitrate cannot be explained away by saying "There's more episodes on it than the R2." The bitrate is lower. There's less data on the DVD (by about half a gig). And there's still plenty of room left on the DVD. So why is the bitrate lower?