2009-01-16, 12:46 | Link #521 | |
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2009-01-16, 13:04 | Link #522 | |||
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2009-01-16, 13:06 | Link #523 | |
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I know that Israel has gotten shit as well, i know that Hamas is not innocent, God, no, both sides are wrong, but this: <-- two wrongs do not make a right. I can't stand seeing on tv, like i just saw, that they fired again some protestants today and a bullet landed in the head of an innocent 15 yrs old Palestinian. These kind of things, are not and must not be justified in any way possible. This is not fiction where right/wrong/morality applies and everyone is light-hearted, it is real life where nothing can be "we will strike but we'll do our best not to cause a FULL massacre". Then again, apparently, it can be. God honest, i don't know what else to say. Other than i am just praying for it to stop. |
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2009-01-16, 13:16 | Link #524 | |
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And frankly blade, it seems you are trying to justify what Israel is doing at the moment. Do you believe it is "right"? Or at least, "not that wrong"? |
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2009-01-16, 13:19 | Link #525 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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2. Yes, Israel is using internationally banned (chemical/biological) weapons against Palestine. 3. And you wish to liberate them by firing missiles at them? By killing them? My, you're sounding a lot like the US. Sorry, but you don't stop Hamas by killing innocent people. |
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2009-01-16, 13:29 | Link #526 | |
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Well, seems like you want to exterminate all of it though. "Massacre" does not equal "stop". |
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2009-01-16, 13:33 | Link #527 | |||
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"US rights group Human Rights Watch has charged Israel with illegal use of white phosphorous bombs in urban areas, which is strictly prohibited by international law." "Israelis fired phosphorus shells at the town of Khouza, killing a woman and causing at least 60 people to suffer gas inhalation and burns." White phosphorous bombs are considered chemical weapons by some organizations, although they aren't by the Chemical Weapons Convention. Quote:
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2009-01-16, 13:38 | Link #528 | |
Kuu-chan is hungry
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
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I don't agree with a lot of what Israel does but some of the absurd conditions people want to put on Israel is ridiculous. Even when Israel does targeted assassinations, civilians still die. Why? It's because Hamas surrounds themselves with civilians all the time. If there's a viable military solution to deal with people who don't care about their own civilians, I'd love to hear about it. |
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2009-01-16, 13:41 | Link #529 | |
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Israel = still wrong, that while knowing that Hamas is shit when does this, still goes through it. Conclusion : Two wrongs, do not make a right, especially when civilians are bring involved. |
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2009-01-16, 13:44 | Link #530 | |
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2009-01-16, 14:04 | Link #532 | |||
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2009-01-16, 14:21 | Link #533 | |
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As for the last one, i do not know, the original intent or not, but the result is result. And the result is a LOT far away than your so-called "original" intents. |
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2009-01-16, 14:41 | Link #534 |
Not that simple.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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The main problem is that none of sides is getting better despite fighting.
This brings one inconvenient fact that Israel is heavily depended on U.S.A Now the real question is whether U.S.A will support Israel all the time, forever? Oh, about Hamas and so called terrists and their attacks on people...... I was in my home country during Christmas vacation, and argued with some folks about this issue. They : Hey, they are terrists, that's bad. Me : So you are willing to call our country's founders terrists? So, in order to gain independence, the founders of my nation did bomb-killing, training militants and assissinations. In other words, they were terrists. Now 60 years later both my country and the former conquering country do not describe them as 'terrists'. We call them 'founders'. History is always written by winners, you know. So blade, I am sorry to hear that your people are getting hurt by rockets from terrists, but I must say that's what you should expected, and are deserved. You said "that land was not belong to anyone" But that's only in 'law' or 'rule'. We are talking about 'reality' here. The reality is that there were people who lived there. You guys came from nowhere and kicked them out. Just like invaders came to my nation about 100 years ago and took the nation as theirs. Well, if someone just come in and try to pull me out of my house, claiming "this house is MINE!", then I would fight. So they do. Seriously, what do you expect if you just kick people from their houses, while killing some of them. Did you expect they would give you food, money and/or love? No! They will give you a deadly rockets which will explode and kill you. The fight won't stop until one of these happens. 1.) You Israelis are defeated by Palestinians and meet horrible death. 2.) You Israelis completely get rid of Palestinians, just put them out of existence. 3.) You Israelis give up the land and escape from there. 4.) You Israelis and Palestinians try to negiociate and let Palestinians form a fully-capable country. See, you can't push Palestrinians from the land since it was.... ah their homes. They won't. The best solution for Israelis (note. NOT for Palestinians) are no.2 and no.4 No.1 and No.3 are best for Palestrinians, but unacceptable to Israelis. No.4 would not happen unless U.S.A gets much weaker (won't happen anytime soon) or gets destroyed. Oh, we got the answer.
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Last edited by wnmnkh; 2009-01-16 at 14:43. Reason: typos. |
2009-01-16, 14:44 | Link #535 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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and why are the Palestinian media the only "camera men in Gaza"? Who set that rule? (I know the answer...).
Lack of independent reporting makes it harder to assess the situation accurately .... just as it did in Tibet or other locations with complex issues. The propaganda from both sides has to be weighed by their falling credibility.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-01-16 at 14:54. |
2009-01-16, 15:37 | Link #536 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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I hate to say this but you're becoming a forum poster child for why the world is having a credibility problem with Israel.... and yes, I watched the video.
Hamas already has no credibility with the Western world, but Israel's government isn't too far behind... Are you trying to actually convince people that Israel is taking the best course for its own self-interest? Or are you just trying to defend that whatever Israel does is infallible?
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2009-01-16, 15:47 | Link #537 |
Not that simple.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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No blade, I am not intending to argue with you about 'who stole' thingy, since I know how the discussion would end anyway.
My point is that you guys need to stop complaining about getting rocket/suicide bombed. I mean, you guys are getting rocket bombed because since you guys claim that land as yours (let's put who's right to have land thingy aside), and you guys are getting what you should have been expected and are deserved. It is up to U.S.A -NOT you Israelis- to solve this problem, by either allow Israel to do genocide to kill Palestinianes or refuse to give any further money and weapons to let Israel die. As I said, in current state, No.2 is only viable answer for us unless there is a big change in U.S.A, and I doubt about the change. By the way, Gaza is currently warzone now, and civilians should not be allowed to enter there except U.N representatives.
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2009-01-16, 16:10 | Link #538 | ||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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That said, I'm actually starting to find you flip flopping on this a bit tiresome. And just in case you're wondering, I didn't find your last round of "hey, it's justified because we're fighting Hamas" very convincing either. Quote:
Second, while I think most Palestinians would prefer you pack up and leave, I believe the vast majority are willing to settle for less. The driving force behind the insurgency is lack of trust - the Palestinians don't trust Israel to give them anything without being threatened. "Deterrence" doesn't deal with the trust issue at all, so I see no reason why it will convince them to lay down arms. There is, of course, a hardcore "fuck the Jews" element in the Palestinian population, but I think they care even less about "deterrence". The only way to deal with them will be to get the Palestinian population to marginalize them. |
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2009-01-16, 16:16 | Link #539 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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I invite people to read this analysis:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_158486.html It is an interesting exposition on the underlying philosophy that leads the actions we witness and the overall strategic consequences.
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2009-01-16, 16:35 | Link #540 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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In a few weeks, a lot of people who were not legitimate targets will have buried their dead and be dealing with destroyed families, lives, livelihoods - and little or no way to cope with it.
whee... (and then... he ran away. So much for listening to a variety of viewpoints.)
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-01-16 at 17:41. |
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