[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 3 Banquet of the golden witch

[Saerianne]

Kanon!!! D:

[Matrim]

Originally Posted by MuzikalNotes

Thing is, have we even considered if they're just moving back time or moving from one world to the next? If the former is true, then there might be a chance that they were manipulated by her, but if it is the latter, then it's likely that events had changed between worlds.

Sure but if things are too different between worlds due to events that happen pre Oct 4 we have zero chance of solving the mystery. Therefore I think that the priciple of Higurashi is still valid - the different events are different for a reason, the starting conditions are the same or almost the same in every episode. For instance if the worlds are so different, one would think that Ange would not be sick every time and will be present for the family athering at least once in th first three episodes. Or that there will be no typhoon once. The shrine on the small island is, IIRC, always broken so far, etc. So the best way to explain the Shannon discrepancy I noted above is by thinknig it was Beatrice telling the story and lying, giving herself credit for Shannon's love affair with George. And let's not forget their relationship is very much alive and kicking in ep.1 in which Shannon thinks she has never ever seen Beatrice, so even if Beato can make such things come true, I have major doubts that she did it in this case. It could be one of her unnecessary moves which are apparently her trademark.

[musouka]

Personally, I'd look at it more as the stories evolving than being in separate universes. Rather, they tend to build on one another even if they're not directly connected. This is most obvious in the romantic relationships and characterization. For example, the scene between Kanon and Jessica in ch3 doesn't make much sense without the build up from the previous chapters.

[Kamel]

I think it is the same way as with Higurashi kai in which while no memory was retained characters did grow from their privious experences.
As for the Beatrice and Shanon in the episode 2 the tips describing the bracelet or whatever it was that was supposed to grant her wish practically stated that the more effective its charm was the less it was actually needed in the first place.

[k//eternal]

So it's basically a magic feather, right?

I don't even know what "The magic was inside you all along" would mean in an Umineko context, though...

[Haruyan]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

So it's basically a magic feather, right?

I don't even know what "The magic was inside you all along" would mean in an Umineko context, though...

Hmm...maybe the magic grows inside the characters? I mean, in EP1 Kanon uses a cleaver to fight the culprit in the boiler room, but from EP2 onwards he uses magic. Same with Shannon.

[Nadeor]

Originally Posted by Haruyan

Hmm...maybe the magic grows inside the characters? I mean, in EP1 Kanon uses a cleaver to fight the culprit in the boiler room, but from EP2 onwards he uses magic. Same with Shannon.

I believe the reason of why Kanon chose to use a cleaver in EP1 was because he was hestitating

In EP2, Beatrice mocked him by saying: "Show us the prove that you are NOT a human!" By this she meant the prove of Kanon able to use magic
So in a way, Kanon was trying to avoid being considered as a furniture

However, anyone noticed that Kanon and Shannon's personality kinda got switched in EP3? Shannon was trying to persuade Kanon that they can turn to human beings in EP2, but Kanon was the one who actually stood up against Beatrice in EP3

[maximilianjenus]

It would be pretty interesting if beatrice's death by rosa was only true in the banquet arc and by not having a beatrice the killings get as messed up as they got with eva-beatrice. One thing that supports it is the "there are no more than 18 persons on THIS rokkenjima".

[Haruyan]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

It would be pretty interesting if beatrice's death by rosa was only true in the banquet arc and by not having a beatrice the killings get as messed up as they got with eva-beatrice. One thing that supports it is the "there are no more than 18 persons on THIS rokkenjima".

We don't know if Rosa remembers meeting Beatrice in every episode. If she only remembers it the 3rd, that means that Beatrice

Spoiler:

might still be alive since she didn't meet Rosa and didn't fall off the cliff.

But idk, Rosa might have still met her regardless....

In EP2, Beatrice mocked him by saying: "Show us the prove that you are NOT a human!" By this she meant the prove of Kanon able to use magic

How does that proof that Kanon isn't human? Beatrice is (supposedly) human, yet she is able to use magic, later on other human characters also use magic. In EP2 Shanon uses magic yet claims she's not furniture anymore.

[Twarz]

I just finished Ep3 and wanted to share some thoughts.

Spoiler:

-Why did Beato's teacher suddenly turned against Battler in the banquet ? As she seems to be completely unrelated to what opposes them, it makes me thinks she has been an illusion of Beato to lure Battler in his trap... Or maybe is she acquainted with LambdaDelta ?
-About Beato, did she really want to trap Battler in the end ? What I mean is that during the game, even when she was alone, she was still talking about how to regain Battler's trust. And when she revealed eveything at the banquet ? She had all her "I'm feeling depressive" faces appearing one after another. So, maybe she didn't want it to turn like this, but was forced to do so beacause of LambdaDelta ? Or maybe am I blinded by my desire for a happy Beato x Battler end now ? ;_;
-George's death is quite mysterious, but I heard an interesting theory : Eva went berserk when she found him beside Shannon corpse. And shot him in despair for him being so close to a furniture. This seems quite possible. But for Nanjo's death...

I don't really expect answers. Just wanted to share what I felt. Oh, and if any of these questions are answered in ep4, please refrain from posting them even in spoilers, 'cause I know I won't be able not to look D:

And please accept all my apologies if any answers were given beforehand, but I didn't felt like browsing fifty pages to look for a particular sentence :P

[MuzikalNotes]

Originally Posted by Haruyan

How does that proof that Kanon isn't human? Beatrice is (supposedly) human, yet she is able to use magic, later on other human characters also use magic. In EP2 Shanon uses magic yet claims she's not furniture anymore.

I think what he meant was that Beatrice was mocking him for being furniture, and tells him to use his magic to prove he isn't.

Originally Posted by Twarz

I just finished Ep3 and wanted to share some thoughts.

Spoiler:

-Why did Beato's teacher suddenly turned against Battler in the banquet ? As she seems to be completely unrelated to what opposes them, it makes me thinks she has been an illusion of Beato to lure Battler in his trap... Or maybe is she acquainted with LambdaDelta ?
-About Beato, did she really want to trap Battler in the end ? What I mean is that during the game, even when she was alone, she was still talking about how to regain Battler's trust. And when she revealed eveything at the banquet ? She had all her "I'm feeling depressive" faces appearing one after another. So, maybe she didn't want it to turn like this, but was forced to do so beacause of LambdaDelta ? Or maybe am I blinded by my desire for a happy Beato x Battler end now ? ;_;
-George's death is quite mysterious, but I heard an interesting theory : Eva went berserk when she found him beside Shannon corpse. And shot him in despair for him being so close to a furniture. This seems quite possible. But for Nanjo's death...

I don't really expect answers. Just wanted to share what I felt. Oh, and if any of these questions are answered in ep4, please refrain from posting them even in spoilers, 'cause I know I won't be able not to look D:

And please accept all my apologies if any answers were given beforehand, but I didn't felt like browsing fifty pages to look for a particular sentence :P

Spoiler for Episode 3:

- As of now, I don't think that's been answered yet, so we're just going to be going through random speculation until we find an answer. But, I remember this line where Beatrice says all she was doing was listening to what her teacher told her to do. If this is true, then Virgilia had planned the whole thing from the start and was just playing along while "helping" Battler. I've still got no idea why, though.
- Since she listened to Virgilia willingly (possibly), yeah, she did pretty much want to trap him, even if she was talking to herself about how she wanted to be kind, as an act to trick anyone (even us o_O) who was listening to her to think she was trying to be a "true witch". Battler got tricked, that's for sure.
- Ahh, possibly, but then all she needed to do was just kill Shannon, then after tha whole thing was over, get George married to another girl. Then again, if she did that, George would hate her for the rest of his life...

[Matrim]

Spoiler for ep.3, reply to Twarz:

George's death is quite mysterious, but I heard an interesting theory : Eva went berserk when she found him beside Shannon corpse.

I don't think so. In ep.1 Eva did learn about Shannon and George and saw the ring on dead Shannon's hand but did not freak out. Well, not too much, that is. Now, if she saw George trying to revive Shannon, that might be a cause for a bit of distress about his mental state but is not really a motive for murder. Especially considering she had schemed all her life to make a child of hers a successor of Kinzo. The only scenario in which I see Eva killing George is the one where he caught her red handed.

On a not too related note, I have an idea about Happy Halloween murders in ep.2. I suspect that the reason why this happens in ep.2 is very simple - in ep.2 Maria and Rosa have a breakfast in coffee shop which is coloured in preparation for Halloween in orange and so on. This inspires Maria to whine about Halloween candy which in the end she gets. She shows it to everyone before they board the plane. Anyway, the point is Rosa probably picked another place for the two of them to have breakfast in the other episodes, so whoever is the killer did not get inspired by Halloween. After all, the story takes place almost a month before Halloween. Too bad this doesn't really help us narrow the suspects much. Rosa is obviously enough the prime suspect but others could have done it too, either to please Maria who is probably someone's accomplice, or simply for the creepiness factor. Maria's candy just served as an incentive to the murderer to get more creative, I reckon.

[Haruyan]

I have a small theory, but it's not very solid so feel free to shoot it down.

Spoiler for Of Eva and Eva-Beatrice:

During the game, right after Eva finds the gold, she comes down with a fever. It could be that she was hallucinating herself to be Eva-Beatrice. Since we know she is the culprit, we might couple that with a bi-polar disorder, (maybe even a split-personality, but that might be stretching it too much).

A bit of a side-theory for this, even if Eva didn't commit all the murders, if she really was hallucinating herself to be Eva-Beatrice, she might have believed that she DID commit the murders (as Eva-Beatrice), thus pushing her to kill Battler as we see in the final chapters.

Sorry if this a repeat, but I don't remember having read this theory in yet.

[kiki_natsumi-chan]

Originally Posted by Haruyan

I have a small theory, but it's not very solid so feel free to shoot it down.

Spoiler for Of Eva and Eva-Beatrice:

During the game, right after Eva finds the gold, she comes down with a fever. It could be that she was hallucinating herself to be Eva-Beatrice. Since we know she is the culprit, we might couple that with a bi-polar disorder, (maybe even a split-personality, but that might be stretching it too much).

A bit of a side-theory for this, even if Eva didn't commit all the murders, if she really was hallucinating herself to be Eva-Beatrice, she might have believed that she DID commit the murders (as Eva-Beatrice), thus pushing her to kill Battler as we see in the final chapters.

Sorry if this a repeat, but I don't remember having read this theory in yet.

I thought that...

Spoiler for Episode 3:

Eva-Beatrice said in red that none of the survivors (Eva, Battler, or Jessica) had any split personalites. Although I don't think she said that none of them had any sort of mental illness...

[Haruyan]

Originally Posted by kiki_natsumi-chan

I thought that...

Spoiler for Episode 3:

Eva-Beatrice said in red that none of the survivors (Eva, Battler, or Jessica) had any split personalites. Although I don't think she said that none of them had any sort of mental illness...

Yeah, you're right. But still, if Eva is hallucinating due to her fever and has a bi-polar disorder (she does seem to go between rage and sadness pretty easily in this EP...), it could be probable....And so far it hasn't been stated in red that none of the 18 people in Rokkenjima is sick (mental or otherwise).

[Mercurius]

Originally Posted by Haruyan

I have a small theory, but it's not very solid so feel free to shoot it down.

Spoiler for Of Eva and Eva-Beatrice:

During the game, right after Eva finds the gold, she comes down with a fever. It could be that she was hallucinating herself to be Eva-Beatrice. Since we know she is the culprit, we might couple that with a bi-polar disorder, (maybe even a split-personality, but that might be stretching it too much).

A bit of a side-theory for this, even if Eva didn't commit all the murders, if she really was hallucinating herself to be Eva-Beatrice, she might have believed that she DID commit the murders (as Eva-Beatrice), thus pushing her to kill Battler as we see in the final chapters.

Sorry if this a repeat, but I don't remember having read this theory in yet.

Spoiler for Ep. 3 Eva:

I mentioned this earlier, but I'm still having trouble believing Eva shot Battler. In that scene in the second to last chapter, Eva's expression has a "blankness" to it that looks very L5-ish. It almost seems as though Battler hallucinated himself into getting shot.

[Haruyan]

Originally Posted by Mercurius

Spoiler for Ep. 3 Eva:

I mentioned this earlier, but I'm still having trouble believing Eva shot Battler. In that scene in the second to last chapter, Eva's expression has a "blankness" to it that looks very L5-ish. It almost seems as though Battler hallucinated himself into getting shot.

So you're saying Battler hallucinated all or part of the EP? That's an interesting theory, although I still believe that Eva was partly the culprit. The emptiness in her eyes could be interpreted as madness, her eyes had no shine to them, while L5's have a white shine to them, even if they don't have a pupil.

[kiki_natsumi-chan]

Originally Posted by Haruyan

So you're saying Battler hallucinated all or part of the EP? That's an interesting theory, although I still believe that Eva was partly the culprit. The emptiness in her eyes could be interpreted as madness, her eyes had no shine to them, while L5's have a white shine to them, even if they don't have a pupil.

That's not always the case...

But then how can you explain his death? He was found dead right?

[Haruyan]

Originally Posted by kiki_natsumi-chan

That's not always the case...

But then how can you explain his death? He was found dead right?

The end credits say that Battler died in the 9th Twilight, so he was definitely killed. By what we're shown in the game he was killed by Eva, but if he was hallucinating then it could've been some one else, probably the real culprit; that is, if Eva was framed and someone else committed the murders.

[Matrim]

Spoiler for ep.3:

Even without anyone hallucinating Battler might have been killed by someone other than Eva - meta-Battler (the one who plays against Beato) sees only what she shows him presumably. The real Battler might have witnessed his own death quite differently.