Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Arachne]

Originally Posted by zalem

The point is they used a WMD and killed millions of people. You cannot argue with that..

When did I start?

[zalem]

Do you not find killing of millions like that rather a bit more than merely 'unethical'? Personally I find their use of MM nothing short of evil. But that's just me. Or is it that you simply have issue with people using the word 'tyrannical' to describe them?

[Arachne]

Originally Posted by zalem

Do you not find killing of millions like that rather a bit more than merely 'unethical'? Personally I find their use of MM nothing short of evil. But that's just me. Or is it that you simply have issue with people using the word 'tyrannical' to describe them?

It's a stupid and incorrect word to use. It's like if I said Nena is a tyrant when she's not. You may not like the word "unethical", but it fits. I am not downplaying the crimes they committed. It was simply the only word I could come up with that suited the sentences' context.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Arachne

Good game though. Who is A-Laws ruling over exactly?

Well, pretty much everyone who isn't in alligence with them.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Arachne

The A-Laws are a seperate entity from the federation not the federation itself.



Do you mean oppression? No, not really, it's information manipulation, but hardly oppressive by any real degree considering they are doing so in order to avoid a public outcry. The A-Laws wasn't/isn't a governing body of anyone, but itself(I haven't seen episode 18 or 19) so they have people to answer to.



Except the argument you are butting into was that A-Laws is "oppressing" the world and again, Kataron is not the "world". The citizens of the federation are flourishing under the Federation and A-Laws are not thier "rulers".



Except Kataron stated they are seeking to overthrow the Federation not "the bad part of the federation". I also never said they were seeking to overthrow the world, but the federation.

First of all how do you find destroying nations that are not part of the A-Laws not oppressive. They have destroyed a country and a capital only for the sake that they are not part of their rule. Not only that they have killed their own people, if you don't find that oppressive then I don't know what does. And Kataron really wants to stop Federation because of their oppressive method conducted by A-Law.

Originally Posted by Arachne

It seemed like he was saying people are being hypocritical for criticizing A-Laws for something our government has done for years. And that the actions of these people are what allow us to do as we please and live well. The only difference is that A-Laws can hide what thier sins because they can control the media. At least that's what I got.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

No, in the contrary I'm saying we shouldn't be hypocrites. We're already looking the other way while people's lives are ruined. When you buy your girlfriend's engagement ring you're probably supporting some brutal African warlord who uses child soldiers and slave labor. When you buy products made in Asia or Central America you're supporting unscrupulous businessmen who underpay and overwork their workers, sometimes bordering slavery not to mention many of these "workers" are children under the legal working age in many western societies. Do you think about any of these things?

From what both of you said it seems that you guys think we are all Americans or something? Because some people here live in a county where their country never conducted those type of methods.
Also how are they being hypocrites? Even if their government uses oppressive or immoral methods it does not mean that people could criticize actions of other nations if they also criticize and know about the fault in their own country. And I am pretty damn sure that most people would be against child labor but I am also damn sure that they are not CEO for a large company so they can't do a thing about it.
The simple summary is that A-Laws are oppressive since they use propaganda and massacred innocent people. And in the end the Federation is really a puppet all the power really resides in the A-Laws.

[Havegooda]

I'll just copy/paste my post from another site.

I watched it last night, along with every other episode before it. I've just learned about the new series (shoot me -.-) and I devoted a few days to watching both seasons up till this one. I must say, this is close to becoming my favorite series, over Wing.

Now, my take on the episode...

Either Anew was a traitor from the start, or she's being controlled by the Innovators. I'm leaning toward the former, only because her skill set and abilities seem too good to be true, at least in their situation. I'm hoping that it's the latter, but I don't think that's the case. We'll find out eventually.

About Marina...I see where she's coming from about not using a gun with respect to the children, but imo, the children would respect her more if they were alive. Having a gun isn't going to make her more suspicious, the A-LAWS know who they're looking for, and not having a gun isn't going to magically have them skip over you.

With Hallelujah's entrance, I'm a bit worried. I think that Allelujah's getting desperate to save Marie from Soma and her need for revenge, and he's resorting to asking Hallelujah for help. Once Andrei is killed or Soma somehow gets her revenge, I think Marie will return, but I'm not sure about Allelujah. Hallelujah's been gone for too long, and I don't think he wants to go away after his "job" is done so quickly.

^ Seems that Hallelujah only turns up during 00 Trans-Am when they're close to each other.

Nena can piss off, I've always disliked her character. She's insane (as to be expected from what she went through), but she was like that before the incident with her brothers, so that's not much of an excuse. I hope she's next off the list.

Louise/Saji, I'm also getting tired of their complaining. You'd think with all the financial backing that she's giving to A-LAWS she'd have access to some intel on the Gundams, and would see that the Trinity's weren't part of the original four Gundams (if the intel they have even says that of course). And FFS Saji, just tell her that you love her already. I think that's part of Louise's problem...she was in love with Saji, and he could never bring himself to kiss her, much less tell her how he felt. I think she needs to hear that from him to finally be over her revenge/mental breakdown.

Whew...long post. What'cha think?

~Gooda~

[neoeagle]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

People usually don't flourish under tyrants though. Name a modern tyranny that flourished...

Stalin.Mao.

Tyrants change nations.The nation flourish after.

[Nerroth]

You have got to be kidding me.


The USSR under Stalin was easily at its worst, in terms of the level of murder and repression inflicted upon its own populace - and while the Red Army did manage the singular feat of taking on the worst of the Wehrmacht and winning, many of the weaknesses in the armed forces were there because of Stalin's pre-war purges.

He was damned lucky he didn't kill men like Zhukov, too. (Notably, Zhukov himself was able to see for himself the nature of mechanised large-scale combat, when fighting the Japanese at Khalkhin-Gol - experience none of the generals in the west of the Soviet Union had in 1941.)

Plus, his own decisions were often, shall we say, less than optimal as a wartime commander...


...and as regards Mao, the man was a monster - and China only recovered in the years after he kicked the bucket, and subsequent governments decided to implement rather different types of economic policies to those the old Chairman would have approved.

To give a comparison, Maoist China was more akin to how North Korea is run now, as opposed to how the modern-day PRC has evolved over the last 30 or so years.

I suspect there aren't many of us planning a move to Pyongyang any time soon.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by neoeagle

Stalin.Mao.

Tyrants change nations.The nation flourish after.

The USSR collapsed, and that was a result of the failed policies of Stalin and his successors. China did not become the power it is today until AFTER Mao's death, when they decided to ease the restrictions and go for a more capitalistic type of communism. Both of those are poor examples.

[Aznavour0079]

anyone else think that the Hal/Al combined personality returns in the last ep to help fend off against the last boss with those uber reflexes and quantum brain wave sendoffs; and this time with the help of Soma/Marie: "a happy ending tagteam"

also, the series seem to drift farther and farther away into my liking; but i hope i will change with the last episodes remaining

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Aznavour0079

anyone else think that the Hal/Al combined personality returns in the last ep to help fend off against the last boss with those uber reflexes and quantum brain wave sendoffs; and this time with the help of Soma/Marie: "a happy ending tagteam"

also, the series seem to drift farther and farther away into my liking; but i hope i will change with the last episodes remaining

What aren't you liking?

[Aznavour0079]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

What aren't you liking?

the way they approach the development of the "newtype world," its a cliche if you ask me, and how critical moments in the anime left me unsatisfied (e.g the sudden promotion of andrei smirnov, the further lack of development of ali and graham) im not exactly trolling now, am i, i beg your pardon if that's the case.. since it is called my opinion and i've watched and became an avid fan of the UC series, so anything outside of it makes me criticize to the point that i become blind through some things caused by what i think was copied

BTW, do you think that the recent absence of kati and patrick raise their chances of dying together and siding with CB?

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Aznavour0079

the way they approach the development of the "newtype world," its a cliche if you ask me, and how critical moments in the anime left me unsatisfied (e.g the sudden promotion of andrei smirnov, the further lack of development of ali and graham) im not exactly trolling now, am i, i beg your pardon if that's the case.. since it is called my opinion and i've watched and became an avid fan of the UC series, so anything outside of it makes me criticize to the point that i become blind through some things caused by what i think was copied

BTW, do you think that the recent absence of kati and patrick raise their chances of dying together and siding with CB?

Who the hell knows what they're doing.

[Arachne]

Well, pretty much everyone who isn't in alligence with them.

Except they are not a ruling body, but an autnomus organization that answers to the federation.

gg

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

First of all how do you find destroying nations that are not part of the A-Laws not oppressive. They have destroyed a country and a capital only for the sake that they are not part of their rule.

Again, what are the A-laws ruling over? And again, A-Laws =/= Federation. They don't "Rule" over anyone.

From what both of you said it seems that you guys think we are all Americans or something? Because some people here live in a county where their country never conducted those type of methods.

Me? I never stated a feeling on the matter eitherway. I was just sharing my thoughts on what I interpreted from the Revolunists' post.

Federation is really a puppet all the power really resides in the A-Laws.

Source?

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Arachne

Except they are not a ruling body, but an autnomus organization that answers to the federation.

gg



Again, what are the A-laws ruling over? And again, A-Laws =/= Federation. They don't "Rule" over anyone.




Me? I never stated a feeling on the matter eitherway. I was just sharing my thoughts on what I interpreted from the Revolunists' post.




Source?

Fair point, I should have said Federation rule. But in reality they are puppet government, the one who has all the power is really Ribbons who control the A-Laws. So the true power really resides in A-Laws.
Anyway on to the main point, you really can't deny that A-Laws method are oppressive. And please stop saying gg, because we are not here to win but to have a discussion.

[Jeffry2009]

Saji Should stop being such a PUSSY just like last time! I mean I just don't like it if he's still the same like before I mean he still couldn't fight. We'll know Exactly how far did saji go for Saving Louise soon?

According to WIKIPEDIA:- "Saji finds the resolve to fight and declares that he will fight in order to get Louise back."

[Seibee]

I don't remember Saji ever being a pussy.

[Ichimaru]

lol how lame was this eps, even with trans am or real GN suites, these CBs cant even out battle fake GN suits from A-LAWS, im not even impressed with Marie/allej super soldier, so far they havnt done shit to show their powers.....How many more powerups does setsuna need? now mutation? seriously this series has become a joke.....

while earths fighters from A-LAWS have no genetic modifactions done to them, only given suits and able to put up a fight......while pushing their body's to the limit...

[Jeffry2009]

Originally Posted by Seibee

I don't remember Saji ever being a pussy.

Watch the First episode till 12, you will understand how THAT happens i mean S2. I'd just don't like it Where Saji Punched Setsuna where saji was bein despaired about louise during ep12.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Seibee

I don't remember Saji ever being a pussy.

You sure about that?