2009-04-20, 00:17 | Link #1 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Age: 43
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Question to Encoders: File Sizes getting out of hand?
I am just wondering what the general consensus on a normal file size (MB-wise) for a 24 minute anime ep.
Now it's not that I am complaining, it is just that I come from way back when we were trying to fit 3-5 eps on a cd and I look at file sizes now and I see 400 - 500 MB files @_@ Encoders used to push for file sizes to get smaller while retaining the same video quality. Now it seems it has all gone out the window... I realize that resolutions have gone up, but I sometimes I see a group release an HD file at @ 200 MB and another @ 370 and I really don't see much of a quality change ( video-wise ) It is to the point now that I almost always download the LQ version of releases if a group makes them, not because my comp can't play it, but because I refuse to have 3 24-minute episodes take up 1.5 gigs on my hard drive. So really my question is this: Is it just encoders have gotten lazy or bigger files is just how it is nowadays? Are some encoders just taking the HQ raws and muxing them with a sub script? I love the h264 codec but does it cause video files to take up more space than say xvid? Just wondering what an encoders take on this.
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2009-04-20, 01:04 | Link #2 |
ISML Technical Staff
Graphic Designer
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To me, this is only a problem if the group only chose to release in 720p, or possibly DVD rips with 6ch audio. Fortunately, most groups release 480p versions, so I'm still not very pissed at large file sizes yet, but I do mind them.
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2009-04-20, 01:28 | Link #3 | |||||
Saizen
Fansubber
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 39
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Other way around. |
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2009-04-20, 01:50 | Link #4 |
翻訳家わなびぃ
Fansubber
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With the proliferation of ever faster internet, the higher quality raws are becoming more accessible. So many people nowadays work off of transport stream raws (straight off of DTV, no filters) or Blu-Ray. That means the encoders now have much better control over how much details to retain - most choose to retain more. If we do this with xvid, the file size would be even bigger. We're benefiting from the power of h.264 that the files are still kept at manageable sizes.
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2009-04-20, 01:57 | Link #6 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2009-04-20, 01:57 | Link #7 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
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IMHO we should just release lossless x264
4-7GB/episode isn't going to kill anyone. Quote:
HDs are just cheaper ... Conforming filesize to CD or DVD nowadays is a pretty retarded thing to do. |
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2009-04-20, 02:04 | Link #8 | |
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
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More like file sizes getting reasonable. About damn time, I say. 230MB 720p releases look like shit most of the time.
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2009-04-20, 02:13 | Link #9 | |
Saizen
Fansubber
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 39
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People shouldn't be conforming to physical media sizes at all. Stop aiming for specific file sizes and start aiming for specific quality levels. |
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2009-04-20, 02:48 | Link #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2009-04-20, 02:49 | Link #13 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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The proper filesize decision needs to be based ENTIRELY on the source. And in order to avoid more pointless SD/MHD/HD discussions, I'll just say that as a rough rule of thumb, most shows that warrant a full 720p release require a 233-size release for the 480p version, if you want to avoid significant quality loss. The quality of transport stream sources exceed the quality of DVDs nowadays in most cases, and even in DVD times, release sizes of 340m per episode weren't unusual. Quote:
Well, it also depends on the number of episodes. A 24- or 25-episode anime can be upgraded to 350/175 megs and still match DVD-R formats while maximizing CD restrictions. And according to my observations, most quality groups still adhere to the 340/233/171 scheme. |
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2009-04-20, 02:53 | Link #14 |
Saizen
Fansubber
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 39
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I meant exactly what I wrote. Also, in my world, wanting the video to look good and the audio to sound good does not require a desire to archive whatever it is I'm watching. Not that I'm necessarily saying you shouldn't, it was just an argument (hence the "mode" bit).
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2009-04-20, 03:14 | Link #15 |
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Again I'll just say I am not trolling, I just wanted to know how todays encoders are viewing the subject.
Not every group releases an SD or LQ version, and sometimes the LQ version of some groups really are LQ. Thats why I asked about the codec. I thought that the better the codec the smaller the file sizes, but it just seems that the sizes are just getting bigger. I just want to know if the encoder mentality now is to try to hit a certian file size, or whatever comes out thats what it is. It's true that storage is cheaper nowadays and bandwidth is faster, but let's not forget some people have bandwidth caps. So yeah just wanted to know if an encoder runs an ep thru avisynth or whatever they do and it comes out at like 500.5 MB and it looks great do they actually try to bring the file size down some while keeping quality or just release as-is because bandwidth is faster and people have bigger hard drives. Please don't flame I am just trying to gauge today's mentality. I know back in the day (yes 1996 ) encoders took pride in having the smallest file sizes and best quality On a side note I dont archive anime I download, for one I HATE burning DVDs. I consider myself lazy enough that if I wanna watch a show and it's not on my hard drive, I don't wanna watch it anymore. I just keep certain series on my HD and once it starts to fill up I just delete older ones. That's the real reason why I posted this topic because the number of series on my hard drives is getting smaller and smaller...
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2009-04-20, 03:32 | Link #16 |
Saizen
Fansubber
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 39
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The better the codec the better the compression. This can be used in different ways, smaller file sizes being one of them. Keep in mind that older releases with older codecs are nowhere near perfect, so assuming your source allows it, it makes perfect sense to aim for a better-looking video rather than to just trim down the file size.
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2009-04-20, 05:42 | Link #17 |
Florsheim Monster
Fansubber
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
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Considering lossless from transport streams can exceed 8GB, I think releases in the 500MB mark are still reasonable. You can't really compare the current releases with older releases because of the advances in technology and the encoding practices that have been put into place now. And can you really see anyone making a decent 720p release at 170MB? If I'm downloading hi-res releases, I want them to be as good as possible - otherwise I just dl the SD version, right? (assuming the group releases an SD version)
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2009-04-20, 06:15 | Link #18 |
x264 Developer
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Part of it is better sources, so you need more bitrate to keep the original quality.
Part of it is people switching to HD, despite the fact that the vast majority of the sources are upscaled crap. Part of it is the fact that people encode with a target bitrate instead of with CRF mode, so they waste enormous amounts of bits completely needlessly to get quantizers around 12. I used CRF18 (way, way unnecessarily high quality) for the last SD anime episode I encoded: the result was 136MB including the audio. Most of the bitrates people use these days are totally unnecessary because they insist on making every episode, regardless of content, the same size; just use CRF and get over it. Nobody backs up to CDs anymore anyways. |
2009-04-20, 07:42 | Link #20 |
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 38
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just release the transport stream instead, 2gb of 1440x1080i mpeg2 per episode will just make people dance from joy, it's PERFECT QUALITY after all (and fuck you if your computer isn't fast enough to ivtc on the fly)
Seriously though, 340MB is perfectly reasonable for 720p HDTV broadcasts. There are cases where you can squeeze a bit more out without losing too much quality, and there are cases with a lot of grain and/or motion and/or 5.1 audio where you have to up the filesize a bit more, but most shows fit fine in 340MB. SDTV broadcast shows (or upscaled SD shows capped off "HDTV") aren't really worth bothering with, they'll look like shit no matter what you do so just stick to 170MB. No one cares about SD anyway. If you do DVD's and/or blurays though just go for the gold at whatever size you deem necessary; archive quality is archive quality after all.
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