2009-05-15, 17:00 | Link #21 |
uwu
Fansubber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So what's preventing a person from the misuse group to just download the release they want on their own and getting the script that way.
"Security" is a joke and just makes the Script Club look elitist. We should know by now that when we release something that it's out there, and people can/will do whatever they want with it whether we approve of what exactly they're doing or not. |
2009-05-15, 17:01 | Link #22 |
Lurker
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Unless you are posting scripts that never saw the light of day, then what is the point in restricting access? DVD groups will take what they want either way, OCR is simple and you only use a couple of hours per episode.
Several groups still hardsub signs/songs/group logo/credits and whatnot even if they add softsubs for the dialogue. Some use AFX, or complex karaoke was used. These things going to be added as well? A database with scripts is not a bad idea, just all this security and "ethics" stuff that seems ridiculous. |
2009-05-15, 17:55 | Link #23 |
Ana-chan~
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Netherlands
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No, people should just download the original release if it contained stuff like that and they want it. Totally not useful to store all that kinda stuff on a central server. The translation of the signs and karaoke could be added to the script of course, and let people that use the scripts decide what they do with it (like.. leave it in the script or take it out and make some 1337 afx stuff).
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2009-05-15, 21:19 | Link #25 |
done
Fansubber
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
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Over and over again you all fail to get WHY the security is there. It is there because some people I have talked to want it. Drop this whole "blah blah elitist" holy war bs you all are riding to death. I guess the fact groups have secure FTP's or staff channels is elitist? It is seriously at this point whining to whine imo. For the final time I'll say this, the security is there SHOULD a group WISH to use it, otherwise they can set their scripts to be 100% PUBLIC.
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2009-05-15, 22:14 | Link #27 |
done
Fansubber
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
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Who said anything about them being the softsub scripts to begin with? Fansubbing has been going on for over 20 years now. And softsub is a quite recent concept. There is a massive library of scripts that were all hardsub only. Also some groups brought up the point of stoping public distribution upon licensing. I fail to see why you want to complain about a function that is controlled by the individuals who created the scripts anyways. It is up to them what is done with the scripts. The option is there, end of story, move on already.
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2009-05-15, 23:50 | Link #28 | |
Hi
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And it's also stupid. Seriously, pirates trying to protect themselves from another pirate? In internet age, where even legal companies failed protecting their stuffs? Once it's publicly (in a way or another) available, it's pretty much impossible to control the distribution. (also I read this somewhere before: if a group doesn't want their script stolen, they should NEVER release it at all)
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2009-05-15, 23:53 | Link #29 | |
Senior Member
Fansubber
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2009-05-15, 23:54 | Link #30 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Take a step back and think it over, what you are trying to do basically feeds on paranoia and is a lot of work to maintain. It's a lot of overhead and in the end, it's a losing battle. There's got to be a serious caveat or disclaimer to any group that expects that access can be controlled effectively in an substantial way. Groups do have private FTPs, but they're not really private. There's almost always a way in, especially when you have something someone wants. Likewise, b'cos groups do have their own FTPs, b'cos trading sites and other things do exist, once a script is out there, it can't effectively be revoked. Especially for the popular ones that are likely to get licensed, a lot of collectors will have it and revocation would only make it more valued. I also think it is a serious oversimplification to believe in one person, one group, one nick, etc. I hope my point is understandable, honestly it's not such a big deal one way or the other, just trying to save you and any group who has plans to do that some time. You can say choices are better, but a false or unrealistic choice doesn't really add much. A false sense of security is worse. "And it's also stupid. Seriously, pirates trying to protect themselves from another pirate? In internet age, where even legal companies failed protecting their stuffs?" Oh, many try. They just fail more often than not... and they end up all nervous, paranoid, on-the-edge b'cos of it. Especially if you talk about illicit groups in general. Now the effective groups stick to what they do best and just don't worry about it, they understand that stuff getting out 'just happens' and you don't waste too much time or overhead trying to prevent that. Last edited by Access; 2009-05-16 at 00:05. |
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2009-05-16, 02:17 | Link #32 |
Hagane no Renkinjutsushi
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Greece
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So If I get a script and start to share it everywhere even though I shouldn't (like I didn't have anything better to do :P ) you will track my ip down and ban me? What about shared ips? A lot of people don't have static. Or you gonna ban only my user name?
Also I pressume if this is going to work (sorry Im kind of new to the fansubbing community so I just learned about scriptclub) avisynth scripts and samples of typessetting will be uploaded to? Like an archive-learn database? And what would be the point to restrict scripts to members only? If its free to join that won't really prevent anything..They ips still stay on the log (or am I wrong?) |
2009-05-16, 04:44 | Link #33 | |
awarpsharp is good
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not Japan :((
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So tell me, what's the point of making scripts public if you want to encrypt them or whatever? Then don't make them available in the first place. It's that easy. Seems like you're not really that tech-savvy so I shall give you a brief tutorial about how the internet and all that site management stuff works. Fact is (which has already been said a couple of times now) if you post something on the internet, then it's there. You can remove it later but people who already downloaded that file have it on their own harddrive or where ever. They can freely redistribute it even after you remove it from your website. Let's say A and B downloaded the same file and uploaded it somewhere. How will you know who uploaded it? Will you modify the scripts in a way that could identify each downloader? And who said it's so difficult to remove that mark? It's pretty easy to strip the script from all kind of ass/ssa stuff that would make it impossible to trace it back. UNLESS you distribute scripts encrypted and write a program that connects to the master server that gets the key to decrypt them for your very viewing pleasure but doesn't allow you to export them so you could strip the content. Please do it for the lulz! (Well then again it's not hard to intercept the program.) Another thing I don't understand is why you make such a big fuss about it. The scripts will be clearly identifiable from which group they origin, no? Unless you will post translations on your site before the actual group release that show. Then again people want translated and timed scripts (and preferably with some decent English). People who post their translation to the public want it to get subtitled and doesn't care about who or how many groups use that in the first place. Sadly, I see that you didn't understand the purpose of the script club at all. The script club was there to share scripts with everyone. Back in the old days (I'm sure you're pretty familiar with the old times) people craved for anime and wanted to understand them. It was a good platform to share scripts so that everyone could read them. Even if they didn't had the translated VHS copy they could have read it along with their Japanese copy of the VHS/LD they owned. And later in the digisub era when someone else used the scripts on the site, the actual group that translated the anime was always credited. I even remember people fully crediting them (lupin gang or nordic anime) even though they did all the typesetting, encoding and even some editing touch ups. What you try to introduce is just fanning people to do some wicked stuff with the scripts if you didn't realize that yet. But that all was in the old days. You do realize that nowadays that a script club is a bit redundant (except to have a good nice archive) because people just get the animes. There's no such thing as having trouble to get the fansubbed VHS's. So yeah, I'm disappointed how you tainted the good idea of a script club. Go name it elitist #subbers circle-jerking club. Or something that doesn't even remotely resemble our beloved old script club. |
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2009-05-16, 04:59 | Link #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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so.. not to join in on the bashing Getfresh, since its a great idea.. but: good intention, bad execution
I'd rather protect against $&*@ companies (seriously) than users "stealing" scripts Just have a policy that relies of the goodwill of others to simply honor certain requests of subbers like crediting them in derived works in the subs, or NOT crediting them in the filename, etc. |
2009-05-16, 05:43 | Link #35 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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I don't think there's too much to worry about companies stealing scripts. If it came out that one used fansub scripts without permission it would be a giant black eye for any serious company and might even put them out of business.
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2009-05-16, 06:01 | Link #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I don't think the legit companies cared in most cases, I know in many cases the fansubbed scripts were offered at least but turned down or just not used. In other cases (ie. Marmalade boy) legit companies asked for the scripts but were refused by the fansubber for one reason or another. With MBoy I think she wanted final editing/approval rights or something like that, and they wouldn't give it to her. Just stuff like that, it often ended up being unworkable unless the subber gave the scripts without any strings attached, and some/most didn't want to do that. |
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2009-05-16, 06:24 | Link #37 | |
awarpsharp is good
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not Japan :((
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2009-05-16, 06:42 | Link #38 |
Aegisub dev
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 40
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Like everyone says, implementing any attempt at security is waste of time, because it won't work anyway.
Anyway, here's something that might work just a slight bit: Make it possible to add a script to script to the database but don't allow anyone to download it. It's there and it's searchable, but if you want to download it you have to place a request where you state why you want to have it. Then the original uploader can read the requests and grant or deny them.
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2009-05-16, 07:28 | Link #39 | |
done
Fansubber
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
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2009-05-16, 12:08 | Link #40 | |
Hi
Fansubber
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the best way, imo. pretty stupid if it's from softsubbed released project though.
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