Gundam 00 Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[Anavel]

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

I really want to see an official source stating that the TD Blanket is needed for the synchronization of two drive, the only info I have found is that to synchronize two drive you have to synchronize their GN particle output.

In episode 2 of S2 we have the synchronization of two drive make the Topological Defect go unstable shutting down the drives. The TD Blanket can be the thing that make the GN Drive hard to synchronize (same output + TD Blanket in synch) where as Tau Drive can synchronize without problem (only same output).

On 4chan /m/ some time ago an anon was translating a lot of info from new book/magazine and one those info was that the red particle from new Tau Drive are not poisonous anymore, if it's true then the only good point of the True Drive are their unlimited operational time/creating Innovator.

The TD Blanket thing was stated in the later episodes with the 0-Raiser, I think, not 100% sure.

As for the thing about Tau Drives being replaced after Trans-Am, I think that was just info from an unofficial source. Seeing as how this didn't seem a problem with Taus still operating after Trans-Am in the later episodes.

And about the Tau drives being improved and now harmless, I find that hard to believe given how and who created the GN-Drives. If it is true (read the translations also) then it seems that now they're just covering inconsistencies with inconsistencies.

[Miles Teg]

Originally Posted by Anavel

And about the Tau drives being improved and now harmless, I find that hard to believe given how and who created the GN-Drives. If it is true (read the translations also) then it seems that now they're just covering inconsistencies with inconsistencies.

I don't see where the problem is with Tau Drive being harmless after 4 years of research, that could be a direct result of the work to improve the output of the drive, the particle being "purer" because the conversion process is better can do the trick.

One important point is that GN Tau Drive convert electricity to GN (Tau) Particle but we don't know how, so everything possible even having a GN Tau Drive with a higher output than a GN Drive

In the end it's possible that the TD Blanket is really only useful/necessary for the unlimited operational time of the GN Drive nothing more.

[Anavel]

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

I don't see where the problem is with Tau Drive being harmless after 4 years of research, that could be a direct result of the work to improve the output of the drive, the particle being "purer" because the conversion process is better can do the trick.

See that's the main problem. You would think that Aeolia Schenberg, the creator of the GN Technology, and along with the hundreds of scientist kidnapped that were put to work on said technology, were not be able to create harmless Tau Drives rather than spend years required to create GN Drives with TD Blankets? They created technology that was hundreds of years ahead of their time. As intelligent as they were, surely they should be able to create a harmless Tau Drive for mass production use, right, right?

[Patriot's Blade]

was there already have been a clear explaination on how & with what to recharge the GN Drive Taus?,
also, is it possible to use Nuclear energy to power up the GN Drive Taus?.

[Miles Teg]

When you have limited resource the GN Drive are way more interesting than GN Tau Drive who need special apparatus to be recharged/start the Drive.

Plus the true mission of the GN Drive is (probably) creating Innovator and not powering Mobile Suits (or doing both at the same time ) something that GN Tau Drive can probably not do.

The GN Tau Drive are using the same technology than the one created by the scientists who have been kidnapped (Bad Haro + Ribbons + VEDA) and the Throne were more technologically advanced than the 3rd Gen Gundam of season 1.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Nice post, the only thing that bugs me though, is the taus needing to be replaced after transam. Where did you read that? I know Reborns is a bad example, but it continuned to function and emit particles even after transam.

Anyways, I'm guessing the cheap versions of the tau drives are the ones which emit red particles? O_o Going by S1 it kinda makes sense, the thrones who are simply sacrificial lambs for Corners, and the UN forces who are just not that important all get cheap drives. Whereas, Corners himself gets the high quality tau drive/s on his alvatore/alvaroon.

Well,I won't call the red Drives cheaper immedietly.The Arche itself has one and it's a pretty powersul suit to me and I'm sure Ribbons could have afforded to give him the best GN-Drive possible,even if it is a rebuild Throne.

Originally Posted by Anavel

The TD Blanket thing was stated in the later episodes with the 0-Raiser, I think, not 100% sure.

As for the thing about Tau Drives being replaced after Trans-Am, I think that was just info from an unofficial source. Seeing as how this didn't seem a problem with Taus still operating after Trans-Am in the later episodes.

And about the Tau drives being improved and now harmless, I find that hard to believe given how and who created the GN-Drives. If it is true (read the translations also) then it seems that now they're just covering inconsistencies with inconsistencies.

Not heard about the golden particles being harmless yet,but I'll guess I'll wait until the info gets released.

Though it should be noted that Ali's gun that shot Setsuna that gave him the radiation poisoning emitted golden particles.

As for TD Blankets,not sure whether they were mentioned in S2 or not nor was it mentioned that they have something to do with the TDS.However.topological defects was mentioned with the testing of the TDS at certain point;episode 2 and 10 of S2 I think.

Personally,I think the TD Blankets may be important in the synchronising and squaring of the particles but not necessarily needed.But I do know that they probably play a large role in the purification process of the GN Particles that TDS produces.

Originally Posted by Anavel

See that's the main problem. You would think that Aeolia Schenberg, the creator of the GN Technology, and along with the hundreds of scientist kidnapped that were put to work on said technology, were not be able to create harmless Tau Drives rather than spend years required to create GN Drives with TD Blankets? They created technology that was hundreds of years ahead of their time. As intelligent as they were, they could create a harmless Tau Drive, right, right?

Depends,Tau Drives was probably created by one of the CB factions[Probably Corner Faction,they found the purple Haro].As genius as Aeolia is,I don't think even he could have thought of everything and the Innovation of humanity seem to be quite an important goal of the plan.Besides,he had alot of other things to think about.

Also,if one attempted to make a Tau Drive one hundred years ago,it is not known whether it will be
-a)possible;the Taus may rely on further advancements of technology to be possible
-b)take a short time;even if Jupiter was not needed

The same can be said if one tried to create an Original Drive today,even if Jupiter was needed.Because the level of overall technology is different;the time taken would may be as well.


Celestial Being is a small organisation anyways,they never wanted to create an army;infact having too many Drives may made it easier for the technology to leak.

As for GN Technology,while I think they're ahead of their time;I think the development of it ultimately depended on the technology advancement of civilisation as a whole.Celestial Being can't develop every single nook and crany science invention that advances technology of humanity on their own.While I think they created alot of innovations and advancements in certain fields,they probably relied on the advancement of civilisation alot as well.They aren't a seperate alien civilisation that lives in another planet[At least,not all of them].

They probably use Veda to monitor technological advancements across the world and leech of it.Technology is a pretty broad field;it may not necessarily progress as whole in one single linear line,any useful invention or discovery that they did not discovered that may be useful to them was probably adapted to their advantage;on the other hand,something useful that they discover may not necessarily be introduced to the world.They probably take any useful discoveries/inventions and apply it to themselves or their GN technology.

Hell,for all we know,they may "halt" and absorb certain developments with some........elimanination and manipulation,simply so the world won't have that development later,thus contributing to their technological advantage.Their Veda and information control certainly gives them a large advantage to their plan.

The Third Gens themselves are however,only 10 years ahead of the AEU's most advanced suits as stated in S1.And the power blocs are already experimenting on beam technolgy at this point,and already have some limited knowledge and application in anti beam technology;as shown with the Custom Flag.Also if I'm not mistaken,the Flags was suppose to have been equiped with beam weapons in 2308 but was delyed because of interventions by Celestial Being;I think something of that manner was stated in the Shell Flag issue of 00V.

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

I really want to see an official source stating that the TD Blanket is needed for the synchronization of two drive, the only info I have found is that to synchronize two drive you have to synchronize their GN particle output.

In episode 2 of S2 we have the synchronization of two drive make the Topological Defect go unstable shutting down the drives. The TD Blanket can be the thing that make the GN Drive hard to synchronize (same output + TD Blanket in synch) where as Tau Drive can synchronize without problem (only same output).

On 4chan /m/ some time ago an anon was translating a lot of info from new book/magazine and one those info was that the red particle from new Tau Drive are not poisonous anymore, if it's true then the only good point of the True Drive are their unlimited operational time/creating Innovator.

The thing is,we have not confirmed nor disprove whether Tau Drives actually use topological defects or not,so I think it's early to say that topological defects alone would be enough to make it hard to synchronise the particles.

However,the reason on why it's easier to syncrhonise Tau Drives may be it's production and numbers.There's only a total of 5 Originals whereas they are alot of Taus,it would be easier to find two Drives that are extremely similar with the Taus,because they are more options.

Also,CB does not have the option to create more GN-Drives with the most microscopic similarities in mind during the process of creation.

Whereas,Ribbons,knowing the importance of it as well as having the ability to make more Drives;can just produce more Drives with this mindset in mind,and take two out of the batch that will work.

Of course,this theory assumes that any instability that the Tau Drives have does not affect it's similarity in GN production;thus the difference between each Tau Drive is little;so it's large numbers make it easier to find a match.If the Taus Drive's instability makes each one very different;moreso than the Originals;then Twin Drive Tau would not be possible in the first place.

Originally Posted by GUNDAM H.E.X.

was there already have been a clear explaination on how & with what to recharge the GN Drive Taus?,
also, is it possible to use Nuclear energy to power up the GN Drive Taus?.

The Tau Drives are recharged and activated using a special machine.Was seen in episode 22 of S1 and episode 1 of S2.

Okay,nuclear is complicated in the world of 00.The technology is pretty much taboo and buried.....literally[All the fuel source is buried in the China desert where CB battled 1000 suits in S1].It's usage should be primararily energy source,I assume.

First of all,they're going to have to revive the technology which may not that hard but require some time.But a bigger problem in this case is getting a nuclear reactor to fit in a mobile suit and have it work wonders,that's issue no 1.

Issue No 2,they're going to make sure it that the GN-Drive and GN mechanisms of the suit do not interfere with nuclear reactor.Being extremely powerful and sensitive,this may be hard and dangerous.And the fallout of nuclear isn't always pretty.Tau Drives can function pretty long actually;considering.So putting an extremely expensive and powerfully dangerous reator may be redundant.and costly plus risky.

Assuming that Twin Drive Tau consumes a large amount of energy and have a very short operation time,then putting it there would be quite useful...but again,seeing how unstable it is,I think this too to be extremely dangerous.

Of course to get by all this,you're going to go through the trouble of getting nuclear technology and fuel back;as stated in the first sentence.

A better possible alternative may be the Solar Energy System on the AEU Enact,which absorbs power from the AEU elevator.But it either hasn't been implemented or already has been but not mentioned.It couls also be a hassle to fit in with all the GN Tech stuff on the GN-Drives.The GN Particles may also interfere in the process for example.Plus,it could simply just not be worth the hassle,the Tau Drives work pretty well and long all things considered,and these militaries are used to refueling type situations in missions,it's been the norm for a few hundred years.It would be a problem for a small organisation like Celestial Being especially as seen with the Trinities,but not the militaries of the world.

[Anavel]

I'm not going to bother quoting you, too long of a post.

But I think you're confused. I'm just going to post some info...

Tau Drives are exactly the same as a GN Drive, except they don't have a TD Blanket.
So in essence Tau Drives can't recharge themselves or purify particles. Because Tau Drives don't have TD Blankets they can be mass produced. TD Blankets take years (decades?) to create and can only be created on Jupiter hence why they're very few GN Drives.

TD Blankets are required to purify the GN Particles, it's one the functions of the TD Blanket, otherwise they would be toxic (as assumed in S1 with Tau Drives based on what happened to that one girl who lost her arm).

Aeolia wasn't the only one working on GN Technology, you forgot about all those scientist kidnapped.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Anavel

I'm not going to bother quoting you, too long of a post.

But I think you're confused. I'm just going to post some info...

Tau Drives are exactly the same as a GN Drive, except they don't have a TD Blanket.
So in essence Tau Drives can't recharge themselves or purify particles. Because Tau Drives don't have TD Blankets they can be mass produced. TD Blankets take years (decades?) to create and can only be created on Jupiter hence why they're very few GN Drives.

TD Blankets are required to purify the GN Particles, it's one the functions of the TD Blanket, otherwise they would be toxic (as assumed in S1 with Tau Drives based on what happened to that one girl who lost her arm).

Aeolia wasn't the only one working on GN Technology, you forgot about all those scientist kidnapped.

Yeah,I'm fully aware of everything that you said.

[Miles Teg]

About the importance of the TD Blanket remember when all those theories were floating around about the fact that the TD Blanket was absolutely necessary for Trans-Am (nothing official has never stated that) and how all those fan theories have been smashed to pieces with the Masurao going Trans-Am and latter on the Ptolemy who didn't even have a Drive when going Trans-Am in episode 23 or 24.

My point is that the TD Blanket is important but perhaps not as much as what we, the fans, thinks/want, but with the movie probably giving us 5 new drives the true role of the TD Blanket will probably be explained (and for me that has do to with Innovation not the TDS ).

[Anavel]

Originally Posted by Miles Teg

About the importance of the TD Blanket remember when all those theories were floating around about the fact that the TD Blanket was absolutely necessary for Trans-Am (nothing official has never stated that) and how all those fan theories have been smashed to pieces with the Masurao going Trans-Am and latter on the Ptolemy who didn't even have a Drive when going Trans-Am in episode 23 or 24.

My point is that the TD Blanket is important but perhaps not as much as what we, the fans, thinks/want, but with the movie probably giving us 5 new drives the true role of the TD Blanket will probably be explained (and for me that has do to with Innovation not the TDS ).

Which brings us back to the whole inconsistency issue. The info that was translated just stated this:

・擬似GNドライヴ粒子は改良化がすすみ、現在ではもう無害。
Pseudo GN Drives are improved, now they are harmless.

That's the equivalent of me stating that "Tau Drives now have unlimited operating time".

[SonicSP]

Well,one of the funnest things in a series is to speculate and theorised about it,none of us are expected to be right,because the facts;or percived facts of a series may change as new details emerge.But we speculate anyway,not to be correct but because it's expected of us,not all micro details can be explained by the series;but every macro detail relased changes our theories and perceptions of the series,we'll just adjust accordingly.I remember having a blast when Code Geass aired.

Originally Posted by Anavel

Which brings us back to the whole inconsistency issue. The info that was translated just stated this:

That's the equivalent of me stating that "Tau Drives now have unlimited operating time".

By the way,where is that info from anyways....hmmm,geeze of all the things to introduce......that's technology for you anyways.

[Miles Teg]

Originally Posted by Anavel

Which brings us back to the whole inconsistency issue. The info that was translated just stated this:

That's the equivalent of me stating that "Tau Drives now have unlimited operating time".

The particle being harmless is not an inconsistency, they have simply refined the electrical to GN Particle conversion thats all.

If a Tau drive where to have an unlimited electrical power source they will run indefinitely because GN Tau Drive are electricity to GN Particle converter and that wouldn't be an inconsistency either.

When or where has it been stated that the particle emitted by Tau Drive are harmful because of the absence of TD Blanket. I remember reading some info stating that Aeolia has refused to produce Tau Drive because of the bad particle and instead has decided to build the true Drive but that was false spoiler from 2ch.

This is the info released after Season 1:

Originally Posted by 00 Mechanics 1st

Units Used In:
Tau: Thrones, GN-X, Alvatoore, Alvaaron
Real: Exia, Dynames, Kyrios, Virtue, 0 Gundam

Activity Limitations:
Tau: No TD Blanket is used. GN Particles are created through electricity, in other words, it’s an electricity to GN Particle converter. When it runs out of power it stops completely. Restarting and recharging require specific equipment and facilities.
Real: TD Blanket is used. Basically, as a semi-perpetual engine, it never stops. But when the unit is not performing maneuvers, it goes into an idling status.

Color:
Tau: Red
Real: Green

Output Characteristics:
Tau: There isn’t a significant difference in output, but since the operation time is limited, in a drawn-out conflict the original GN Drives have a decided advantage.
Real: Again, there isn’t a significant output difference, but the advantages of unlimited supply and the ability to store particles come to mind.

Detrimental Characteristics:
Tau: The highly compressed [particles] used in beam weapons are hazardous. They have an affect on the cells of living things, rendering regenerative medicine useless.
Real: Basically harmless.

Development:
Tau: Since they don’t utilize TD blankets, they can be produced in a relatively short time. They can even be produced on Earth.
Real: An extremely long period of time is required to produce them. Additionally a high-gravity environment is needed for production.

Other:
Tau: With current technology, they can’t use Trans-am.
Real: Trans-am is built-in. With equipment only loaded in the original GN Drives, using highly compressed GN Particles, they can achieve 3x output.

EDIT : SonicSP the info about the particle being harmless come from the latest magazine/novel/book and where translated by an anon on 4chan who have taken those info from http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kouryakukan/ and 2ch.

[Revolutionist]

I'm going to make one basic assumption here: The yellow/orange particles are simply a result of improved and refined pseudo drives.

It makes sense that if the red particles are dangerous then the first step would be to fix that and try to filter the particles somehow. Purer particles (orange) should not only be harmless to humans but also give better performance as well.

Now, operational time is cited again and again as a downside to the pseudo drives; however, that's not even a weakness. First of all, a system like the Enact's could be installed to draw power from the orbital elevators, if it were even needed. The thing is though, the first pseudo drives already had incredible durability. The thrones went on after losing their recharging unit for quite a while, and even on low particle production mode, that is less than 30%, they were still formidable machines. Ali was able to fight off the Exia and almost win using an almost depleted Zwei.

Considering the main opponent would be terrorists who didn't have access to GN tech, there was no point really to expanding operational time on the GN-XIII and Ahead to match a Gundam. Engagements would be decided way before the operational time of the machine would come into play. Even against the Gundams, the fights were decided way before that happened.

Hypothetically speaking, should an engagement go long enough to require recharging of the drives, then the commanders would simply do what they did in the Taklamakan desert, rotate units in and out so that there was no downtime between attacks and operational time was not even an issue.

[Dean_the_Young]

It's not a matter of running out of electricity that limits a tau drive, but that the drive 'burns out' and needs maintanence. That's why tau drives are always separated and innactive before being put into the mobile suits (as opposed to being idle), and why Mr. Bushido had to retreat after every time using trans-am (because it pretty much burned out the drives).

The Federation/A-LAWS couldn't get around the time limit, but that didn't stop them from increasing technology. There were un-specific general power rankings given for some of the 00 mechs awhile back after the start of S2, and if the Ptolemy Meisters gundams were each 100, then suits like the A-HEAD were 130. That's general, not category by category, but the A-HEADS were enough to more than match a S1 gundam in a one-to-one fight (minus the temporary bonus of trans-am, which comes with its own kicker).

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

It's not a matter of running out of electricity that limits a tau drive, but that the drive 'burns out' and needs maintanence. That's why tau drives are always separated and innactive before being put into the mobile suits (as opposed to being idle), and why Mr. Bushido had to retreat after every time using trans-am (because it pretty much burned out the drives).

The Federation/A-LAWS couldn't get around the time limit, but that didn't stop them from increasing technology. There were un-specific general power rankings given for some of the 00 mechs awhile back after the start of S2, and if the Ptolemy Meisters gundams were each 100, then suits like the A-HEAD were 130. That's general, not category by category, but the A-HEADS were enough to more than match a S1 gundam in a one-to-one fight (minus the temporary bonus of trans-am, which comes with its own kicker).

Personally,I think the electrcity is the more primary issue of time limit rather than burning out.First is the the Thrones's battle againts the UN Army in S1,it seems Sergei stated that their Drives will run out of power eventually,and true enough their outputs were lowered later,I think their screens showed low power as well[Citation needed for the last bit].

The other reference to this is the Ahead Scout Type in 00V[Not exact name,forgot].The article's translation mentioned that it has enough electrcity supply for up to two weeks of of function;not inclusive of combat operations which greatly reduces the operation time.Two weeks seem pretty long to me,and I think it should be the primary concern.However,the reason for combat reducing the operational time is not specifically mentioned;although we assumed it's higher electrical usage.Although your burn out theory may be used here as well as a possible reason.

The Burnout problem;in my opinion,would be more of a lifetime issue.A phone battery for example,can be used for..example;.....a year,and it's performence is reduced in that lifetime;after a while it better to simply just turn it to scrap metal.The Tau Drive burnout issue in my opinion,may limit the usage of the Drive to a certain amount before it becomes unbeneficial to use it.

If this was the case,then continues production of the Tau would be important to keep an operational GN unit since Drives would burn out[This really depends on how fast mass produced Taus burn out] and make them more like batteries than engines.Of course,this is offset by the easeness of their production and projects a nice counterbalance.

There could be of course,different levels of lifetimes and durability of Tau Drives of course since they are mass produced,just like mobile suits.The army can't make all their suits as powerful as the specialised single units,since they probably cost more;just like they are less than 100 Aheads[Plus and minus] in existence as compared to probably alot more GN-X III.

There could be Tau Drives that have high surability;like possibly the ones used by the Trinities[Nena's still function until today....okay fine that's a lie,Regnant crushed it] which could be high quality Drives but the mass produced ones may be cheaper and easier to make but may have much shorter lifetimes.

As for that power comparisons between in early S2,the Ahead outperforms the Gen IIIs[As stated in the magazine and in it's HG] simply because it's using Fourth Gen-level technology so it would of course beat the Gen IIIs in that regard.The Ahead when piloted by Ginin is especially strong in my opinion.

[Kirouni]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Now, operational time is cited again and again as a downside to the pseudo drives; however, that's not even a weakness. First of all, a system like the Enact's could be installed to draw power from the orbital elevators, if it were even needed.

I think the system used on the Enact allowed it to use solar energy from the elevators, cause they said in the first episode the only difference between an enact and a flag was the lower maintinece cost as a direct result of using that system.

It is pretty much like non-nuclear Gundams in SEED, they're battery powered, just the power to recharge the battery comes from solar energy.


On the other topic, I don't think burning out was an issue, and I'm pretty sure there would be no reason for it to just short out. Tau drives really don't have much of a reason to burn out, except over heating, but I think that is more prone to happen in combat (in which it never had). When the Masurao went trans-am, Trans-am would have more than likely burned out the drive, but it did not. Same with the Susanoo, the drive would have probably burned out without running out of power.


Edit: My bad I didn't proofread my post cause I had to go to class. The point was that if the drive didn't give enough heat to burn out during high intensity operation (such as trans-am) then I see no reason why it would burn out just because it ran out of power.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

If Tau Drives are powered by electricity, would that mean they give off heat during use?

[Revolutionist]

Not just the Tau but the Original drives also give off heat. Whenever there is work being done, which is obviously the case because something is making GN particles, then there is heat given off.

1st law of thermodynamics.

[GrahamAker]

holy shit will u stop this never ending debates about gn-drives and move on to a new topic like the development of gnz suits and so on. don't get stuck on 1 thing.then it will be stuck-on!.wait for the release of new 00 gundam gunpla and we will get some more material about gn drives to debate.specially of exia's burst mode.

[Miles Teg]

Originally Posted by bhus12

holy shit will u stop this never ending debates about gn-drives and move on to a new topic like the development of gnz suits and so on. don't get stuck on 1 thing.then it will be stuck-on!.wait for the release of new 00 gundam gunpla and we will get some more material about gn drives to debate.specially of exia's burst mode.

Do you have a topic of discussion about the GNZ line of mobile suits

A sweet picture with the grand-father, father and son next to each other



GNY-004 Gundam Plutone / GNZ-001 GRM Gundam / GNZ-003 Gadessa

From all the info released so far :

To create the GNZ line, Ribbons has used the frame of the Plutone + the battle data of the First season Gundam.
The Reborn Gundam is probably a refined GNZ MS with a "little" of the 00 Gundam