Content Restrictions on Japanese ero-games

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Uhm let me get this straight, EOCS is basically an organization with the same objectives as CERO PEGI and ESRB?

In other words they decide PC game ratings in japan. Is it right so far?

Now I've never heard of such an organization to be able to put a veto on a certain product. How exactly are they going to enforce such a decision, and should someone ignore it, how exactly is EOCS going to respond to that? Will they just ignore the product and not rate it because according to them it shouldn't exist? That would actually be counterproductive. Or will thet rate it 18+? But by doing that is as if they would confirm its legitimacy for adults.
Something just doesn't make sense here...

Yes, EOCS is like ESRB, they don't decide PC game ratings for all games in Japan. They decide for themselves.

I think this is like the third time for me explaining what EOCS is on this thread.
Every single member of EOCS are reps of a PC game company.
By majority vote, they decide on the rules, and apply these rules to the games published by the member of their group.

So for example, company A, B, and C are members of EOCS.
Games released by A, B, and C will get the benefits of being part of the group, such as being easily available and wide spread on the market by having most PC game stores carrying it.

Company D, on the other hand, is NOT a member of EOCS. The rules EOCS sets will not affect their games, and they do not need to abide by their rules. They still need to abide by Japanese laws, of course. However, most PC game stores will not carry their product, because they are not part of EOCS. A few independent stores will carry them fine, and they can also use the internet for download sales.

Company E is a member of EOCS. They decided they want to release a game on two different formats. A totally uncensored version that doesn't pass through EOCS, and a version that does. The version that gets EOCS ratings will most likely sell more, since they can sell it in stores. They will sell the non-rated version through download only.

EOCS only has power to regulate members of their party. That's all.

[Jan-Poo]

So basically you are saying that there are PC games that are sold in the market without any kind of rating.

I thought eroge were resticted to 18+ by law, or so it seemed from what it's shown on Lucky Star. But according to you there are eroge that do not even have a rating @_@

Anyway you have also said that Alicesoft is part of EOCS and yet they do not plan on changing their content. So my question remain: how is EOCS going to behave toward alicesoft's games that ignore their decision?

Not rate them at all even so alicesoft is part of EOCS
Or rate them 18+ as if they never decided that such games shouldn't be accepted in any case?

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

So basically you are saying that there are PC games that are sold in the market without any kind of rating.

I thought eroge were resticted to 18+ by law, or so it seemed from what it's shown on Lucky Star. But according to you there are eroge that do not even have a rating @_@

It's like how ESRB works actually. Rated games gets the go head to be published and sold to the masses in brick-and-mortar stores. For Unrated game, there's no such luck. The person/group have to find their own way to sell the game for a profit.

But in this time and age fo digital media, there are various success stories for groups that were not tied down by EOCS/Sofuri/etc....

For an example, search for Kodomo-h on the Japanese Google. It's a wonder that this said group can get away as long as they did.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

So basically you are saying that there are PC games that are sold in the market without any kind of rating.

I thought eroge were resticted to 18+ by law, or so it seemed from what it's shown on Lucky Star. But according to you there are eroge that do not even have a rating @_@

Anyway you have also said that Alicesoft is part of EOCS and yet they do not plan on changing their content. So my question remain: how is EOCS going to behave toward alicesoft's games that ignore their decision?

Not rate them at all even so alicesoft is part of EOCS
Or rate them 18+ as if they never decided that such games shouldn't be accepted in any case?

Can you go back and read the posts again before those questions? Pretty much every question you've asked has been answered in the previous page.
Anyways, yes, you still put 18+ on adult materials to prevent from selling to minors, but no, you do not HAVE to go through a self-regulating group such as EOCS to do so.
The benefit of joining EOCS is mass distribution, just like ESRB. But unlike ESRB, it's not really a "rating" system, they don't have subcategories of ages.
Just one rating: "18+ EOCS approved" It simply puts a EOCS sticker on the packaging, a pretty silver circle sticker saying "Look! I'm approved by EOCS! Now put me on your shelves!"

The whole point of these groups is so the stores knows that they aren't in a content risk since it's passed through a known system.
If they were selling independent games that self-claims it's safe content, and doesn't violate laws... they have no idea whether they can rely on them or not.

Second, THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY DETAILS revealed about the restriction.
It's too early to say that Alicesoft is gonna ignore the restrictions, when we don't know what it means.
For all we know, the restrictions are on the title and its theme, not necessary every content, in which case Alicesoft has nothing to worry about on their major titles.
We have ZERO information at this point about the rules, we don't know what violates what restriction.

That's it, I'm not repeating myself anymore.

[relentlessflame]

aohige, I think the main source of the confusion comes from this blog post, which has since been quoted on a number of other major blogs and site. Unfortunately, he quotes "several sources on 2ch" as the source for the description of the restrictions, which makes me think, based on your comments, that this is simply the false information being passed as fact. That would be twice now that the English anime news community was duped into believing false rumours on this very same subject, but that wouldn't surprise me terribly. Fact-checking is not one of the community's stronger points.

[zalas]

Yeah, the 2ch sources aren't verifiable at the moment, so they could either be right or wrong. If you want to stick to currently verifiable information, then the only things I've seen as reactions by game companies (apart from staff blog posts) to the new regulations are that:
1) BISHOP is not delaying or changing the contents of its upcoming game (August 7).
2) Syrup has changed the name of its upcoming game (June 26).
3) Blue Gale has changed the name and some descriptions of its upcoming game (August 28).

[aohige]

Well, this is what seems to be happening, gathered from "available" information.
As I said in earlier post, and many blogs talk about, there was a fax sent out on 6/3 about implimenting the new rules.
However, details on the rules were not discussed on 6/2 conference yet.

Normally they can't pass new regulations out without voting on it.
However, the board of directors seems to have had their own private meetings over what to regulate.
They sent out Fax that starting on 6/5, the new regulations will be implimented, and on the next meeting (undecided date, but by rule must be notified 2 weeks in advance) they will vote over the new regulations.

So a lot of eroge makers are puzzled and confused, on what they are supposed to do right now.
They haven't voted or discussed on what to do yet.. which is in the next conference... but they have to use the new (temporary, since it hasn't been voted yet) regulations. It makes not a lick of sense, and thus causing even more confusion. How are you supposed to impliment regulations that you haven't voted or discussed on yet, which will be done in the future?
It was most likely a fast move pulled by the directors, to show the media "hey look, we took swift action, see? (but we might change it in the next meeting)"

The details on the regulations are not announced anywhere, or leaked by a confirmable/reliable source.
I'd call those information "take it with buckets of salt", instead of false.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by aohige

It makes not a lick of sense

Oh my... aohige, if you clearly read my latest posts that is exactly what I was trying to get to. I never argued that EOCS is just an autonomous group, sorry if you got that idea.

I just wanted to get some things clear and you pretty much confirmed my doubts. basically there isn't any clear conclusion about what this discussion about rapelay should bring to in practical terms

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Something just doesn't make sense here...

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Oh my... aohige, if you clearly read my latest posts that is exactly what I was trying to get to. I never argued that EOCS is just an autonomous group, sorry if you got that idea.

I just wanted to get some things clear and you pretty much confirmed my doubts. basically there isn't any clear conclusion about what this discussion about rapelay should bring to in practical terms

Nope, your questions aren't affected by this.
The two questions you asked where: how much influence EOCS has over games in general, and meaning behind Alicesoft's message.
Like I said, if we don't know the details on the regulations, Alicesoft not worrying about it doesn't mean they aren't going to listen to the regulations. It may simply not affect them much.
They didn't say they're going to "ignore the restrictions". They said they're going to keep doing what they're doing.

your quote

So basically you are saying that there are PC games that are sold in the market without any kind of rating.

I thought eroge were resticted to 18+ by law, or so it seemed from what it's shown on Lucky Star. But according to you there are eroge that do not even have a rating @_@

This would be your first question. How rating systems work, and whether or not you can sell without EOCS.

Anyway you have also said that Alicesoft is part of EOCS and yet they do not plan on changing their content. So my question remain: how is EOCS going to behave toward alicesoft's games that ignore their decision?

Not rate them at all even so alicesoft is part of EOCS
Or rate them 18+ as if they never decided that such games shouldn't be accepted in any case?

Alicesoft didn't say they're going to "ignore their decision".

[Jan-Poo]

Alicesoft was a mere example.

The very fact we don't know the detail of the regulation makes me wonder about what exactly are they going to do, or what they might do, or how are they going to enforce whatever decision they take (among their members).

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Alicesoft was a mere example.

The very fact we don't know the detail of the regulation makes me wonder about what exactly are they going to do, or what they might do, or how are they going to enforce whatever decision they take (among their members).

We don't know, but they do.
And those details will be voted (or should we say veto) on later, implimented first.

As for enforcing, they simply check the product, and decide if it pass or not. If it doesn't pass, they won't put a sticker on it. That's all.
The company will have to change the product to fit the rules, if they want to sell it in stores (get a EOCS sticker).

No, they don't burn them at stakes and throw them in jail, if that's what you're asking.

Edit: Back to the topic. Because final directions will be decided after the next EOCS conference, I'm not worried too much about whatever rules are set right now.
The group haven't had chance to review and vote over it yet. The leaks, whether they are true or not, will never be officially verified until the final rules have been set in the future meeting anyways.

[Jan-Poo]

As for Rance, TADA said Alicesoft will not change their stance on content, and will continue to release games in the same form as always.
Alicesoft holds one of the main chairman position in EOCS, so them not taking it so hard is a relief.

It looks like I misunderstood you, what exactly did you mean?
I mean if you said so I supposed thatTADA released a notice about the fact Alicesoft won't change their stance on content. But why they should make such an announcement? Wasn't that related to the EOCS current discussion?

If it doesn't pass, they won't put a sticker on it.

Oh, that's exaclty what I was asking.

No, they don't burn them at stakes and throw them in jail, if that's what you're asking.

Did I even imply that? It looks like you are imagining things ^^

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It looks like I misunderstood you, what exactly did you mean?
I mean if you said so I supposed thatTADA released a notice about the fact Alicesoft won't change their stance on content. But why they should make such an announcement? Wasn't that related to the EOCS current discussion?

He didn't take it so hard. As in, he didn't go OMFG IMMA KILLMYSELF like some others did.
He was more like, *shrug* no biggie.

Yes, it's related to the current discussion, but it's not related to YOUR discussion. He's not saying he's going to defy the restriction.
It seems to imply the regulations doesn't affect their content much. Which is a relief.

[Jan-Poo]

It seems to imply the regulations doesn't affect their content much

Oh as far as I know that could simply mean Alicesoft doesn't make rapelay in the first place. You know I don't really know much about eroge and such, so I'll have to rely on your info for that :3

[Key Board]

But they made Escalayer and Haruka and of course Dai Akuji which is very well against this supposed new self censorship regulation

not to mention that well, Rance IS a rapist and he has at least sired one child this way.

[Ojamajo LimePie]

There's two ratings board for PC games in Japan, the EOCS and the CSA. These new rules only apply to companies that belong to the EOCS. I suspect that some companies might be thinking about switching organizations.

[Fnights]

Originally Posted by Ojamajo LimePie

There's two ratings board for PC games in Japan, the EOCS and the CSA. These new rules only apply to companies that belong to the EOCS. I suspect that some companies might be thinking about switching organizations.

Hope so, even if i don't play galge games in general for barrier language, i'm completely against any form of censorship, expecially under pressure of oversea bigots and idiots.

[Key Board]

h ttp://zepy.momotato.com/2009/06/08/misc-updates-about-regulating-pc-games/

[Key Board]

h ttp://zepy.momotato.com/2009/06/12/non-human-heroines-might-possibly-be-restricted/

and it keeps tumbling down~
tumbling down~
tumbling do~~~wn~

now some of you might be going.. but oh.. it doesn't effect me! I only play eroge with consensual sex between a man and a woman in missionary position!

maybe.... for now... but let's see how long that lasts

[Sister Princess]

Originally Posted by Key Board

h ttp://zepy.momotato.com/2009/06/12/non-human-heroines-might-possibly-be-restricted/

and it keeps tumbling down~
tumbling down~
tumbling do~~~wn~

now some of you might be going.. but oh.. it doesn't effect me! I only play eroge with consensual sex between a man and a woman in missionary position!

maybe.... for now... but let's see how long that lasts

If it wasn't some people neglect the potential this would've cause, I'm certain this won't happen now.