Character Discussion - Lelouch

[zongetsu]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

lelouch sacrificing thousends of OTHER PEOPLE to create a better world and getting away with it free and clear while everyone else is left picking up the pieces = douchebag

That alone is a personal opinion.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

if the code HAD to go somewhere, and it was impossible for it to just disappear along with charlie
when why did charles start to vaporize long before grabbing lelouch ?
what would have happened had he NOT grabbed lelouch ?
would the code magically fly away and stick itself on lelouch ?

Who knows what would have happened if he had not touched lelouch. Quit playing the "what if" game. What happened happened, and for a reason. IT was because Charles touched lelouch that he could take the code. I highly doubt that if Charles just slowly disappeared that Lelouch could recieve it. He had to take direct action. Sure telling the world of C would "weaken" him, but it would also show him the power of his geass. That his geass works on a god. A god supposidly can kill a god as Charles was going to kill CC. Everything was possible at the moment. He did it, it was final, no what ifs.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

lelouch asked god to interfere, and god chose to erase both charles and marianne
the code was part of that

He didnt ask god to interfere, he asked god not to stop the progess of time because he wishes for a tommorow.
[/quote]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

thats part one
the other part is about how the code is something you GIVE
there hasnt been a case where a code has been taken without the consent of its original barer
its possible to FORCE it onto the geass user, but its always GIVEN AWAY by its barer
and the idea that charlie would just give it to lelouch at THAT point, after he just ruined everything he and marianne were trying to do, and basiclly told him "you suck, and you didnt ever buy me a pony" is laughable

What you plainly state, giving away and forcing are two in the same. Sure, the nun gave her code to CC. SHe forced it on CC. CC said herself achieving mature geass allows one to kill the bearer, this process would ultimately end up with the code transfering. That is called taking.

Charles took VV code. I know because CC asked herself why charles would take VV code at this point in time and why he would kill the brother he admired so much. He took it.

Charles did not give it to lelouch, lelouch most likely unconciously took it. Because he no longer wished to see the emperor anymore, he told them to "BEGONE!" This made them go away. THey died.

Then they specifically made sure we saw the code on his right hand and after lelouch said "BEGONE" have his hand epically missing. Oops.

Serious kid, I LOVE WATCHING YOU STRUGGLE.

[morbosfist]

No matter how much shoddy reasoning you give as to why Lelouch is alive, it boils down to one simple fact. The staff has confirmed that he is dead. End of story. Unless CG is remade at some point, their word is law. No amount of ranting on the little minutia being pieces in some larger scheme will change that.

[snowdevil_crow]

Except that Lelouch's hand is completely Code-free. You can see it in Turn 25 when he makes that dramatic gesture upon conquering the world. No Code.

:/

I'm willing to say there is a slight possibility, but honestly, zongetsu, it's pretty unlikely that it will ever be canon-canon. Until then, keep it in the head canon. :/

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by zongetsu

That alone is a personal opinion.

not a matter of personal opinion
whether or not you still LIKE him, is a matter of personal opinion
him being a douche bag by doing what i mentioned, is just a fact
because it means he, in one way or another, screwed over EVERYONE WHO LOVES HIM (most especially his best friend)
murdered untold thousands of people in cold blood
devastated much of the worlds economy
and then, betrayed the very ideals that he had held during the entire show, and cheated his way out of it, while leaving everyone else to clean up after him

and that makes him a douche bag
you can still like him (i personally wouldnt), and thats where the opinio thing kicks in
but he would still be a douche bag of epic proportions

[Let'sFightingLove]

It's a contrived story; of course you can exploit it to your liking.

I wouldn't even bother with him, reasoning is futile when you're not even talking about the same plot to begin with.

[zongetsu]

Originally Posted by morbofist

No matter how much shoddy reasoning you give as to why Lelouch is alive, it boils down to one simple fact. The staff has confirmed that he is dead. End of story. Unless CG is remade at some point, their word is law. No amount of ranting on the little minutia being pieces in some larger scheme will change that.

Sure the staff said he died. I said he died too. But ultimately he was brought back to life. Hence he lives. Now, sure I would believe he was dead but there are too many things that refute the point. For instance are you telling me that:

NUNNALLY CREATED HER OWN SUPER POWER THAT WAS NOT STATED BY THE CREATORS THAT ALLOWED HER TO "SEE" LELOUCH' PAST?

If you cant, eat it your own words please.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

not a matter of personal opinion
whether or not you still LIKE him, is a matter of personal opinion
him being a douche bag by doing what i mentioned, is just a fact

Why did you just pwn yourself? You just said that its my own opinion that "i like him" while you just said he was a fag to live. Im pretty sure "him being a douche bag by doing what i mentioned" is opinion. Even morbofist would have to agree with me.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

because it means he, in one way or another, screwed over EVERYONE WHO LOVES HIM (most especially his best friend)...and then, betrayed the very ideals that he had held during the entire show...

Sure he screwed them over, but suzaku knocked some sense into him. He told him he had to make those lies the truth. In the beginning he had no morals, he would step on anyone. But he learned the ropes, the consequences. He thought it would be easy.

His goal in the beginning was nothing more than to destroy britannia, and his father. He used the Japanese to his advatage telling them that he would free them. That was how it all started. BUt lelouch learned that even if britannia was destroyed, people would still hate.

One thing stood with him from the beginning till the end however, and that was this idea of destroying the cycle of hate. That was it. Nothing else, he changed, matured. But im sure you wouldnt realize this because it is a fact that lelouch is a douche.

You would feel betrayed wouldnt you? If lelouch survived. But even many of those who like him see him as dead. THat is the reality. It is all opinion.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

murdered untold thousands of people in cold blood
devastated much of the worlds economy...while leaving everyone else to clean up after him

He knew he did and he knew he could not stop. If he stopped all of those who would be lost would have died in vain. God kid, did you even watch the show? *sigh*....and then the world economy sucked anyway, if you were not part of britannia then you would eventually succumb. And then, he purposly left them to clean up after him. It would ensure the world changed as he wished it to. TO make it a kind world where things could be settled at a table and not by military. He was merely the wall, once he fell it did too. With his "death" the world could accept each other and break the chain of hatred.

Originally Posted by snowcrow_devil

Except that Lelouch's hand is completely Code-free. You can see it in Turn 25 when he makes that dramatic gesture upon conquering the world. No Code.

You should watch the show again too. THen perhaps you would realize that the code does not appear until after you die, and the code is already active. It really doesnt make any sense for the geass insigna to be present if the person has not activated the code yet.

In all other scenarios the code is activated immediately after and we see the code. For instance charles, he did nothing. THen when he died, came back, he showed the code and laughed. Obviously it wasnt there or he wouldve done it in the first place. But lelouch lives for a long time after.

The time when we mightve been able to see the code was in r2 ep 25 when he got stabbed and died. However his hand was covered in blood. That way we couldnt see it.

The code merely manifested in his body, preserving his body in its state. IT was like in a "slumber" only to be activated when he died. Then when he died, the code would restore his body to that state, his original state which he recieved the code.

Its not a head cannon, its a godfuckinzilla canon.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by zongetsu

He knew he did and he knew he could not stop. If he stopped all of those who would be lost would have died in vain. God kid, did you even watch the show? *sigh*....and then the world economy sucked anyway, if you were not part of britannia then you would eventually succumb. And then, he purposly left them to clean up after him. It would ensure the world changed as he wished it to. TO make it a kind world where things could be settled at a table and not by military. He was merely the wall, once he fell it did too. With his "death" the world could accept each other and break the chain of hatred.

I don't think blade said anything different.

You should watch the show again too. THen perhaps you would realize that the code does not appear until after you die, and the code is already active. It really doesnt make any sense for the geass insigna to be present if the person has not activated the code yet.

In all other scenarios the code is activated immediately after and we see the code. For instance charles, he did nothing. THen when he died, came back, he showed the code and laughed. Obviously it wasnt there or he wouldve done it in the first place. But lelouch lives for a long time after.

The time when we mightve been able to see the code was in r2 ep 25 when he got stabbed and died. However his hand was covered in blood. That way we couldnt see it.

The code merely manifested in his body, preserving his body in its state. IT was like in a "slumber" only to be activated when he died. Then when he died, the code would restore his body to that state, his original state which he recieved the code.

Its not a head cannon, its a godfuckinzilla canon.

Nope, it's an urban myth. There's no precedent to suggest this. Just pure conjecture.

[bladeofdarkness]

you couldnt have missed my point more if you fired in a different direction and the point was on a different planet
and you ended up spliting my post into several different smaller post instead of addressing the OVERALL POINT of it

lelouch did a lot of shit in order to create his "perfect world"
if all the sacrifice to bring about this perfect world was made by OTHER PEOPLE, then how is he any different then shnizel
shnizel also acted out of what he believed was the BEST for the world
lelouch behaves like a monster douchebag to rival and even BEAT his father
if he does all this knowing that he would end up paying the ultimate price for his sins, then thats one thing (forgivable)
but if he does all this knowing that he's just going to cheat death in the end, then he's just a douche-bag

Originally Posted by zongetsu

Sure the staff said he died. I said he died too. But ultimately he was brought back to life. Hence he lives. Now, sure I would believe he was dead but there are too many things that refute the point.

i know this was a response that you gave to morbo and not me
but i just got to ask you
were you watching the same last ep ?

because the only thing that even SUGGESTS that he might still be alive was one line from C.C, who is far more likely to be talking to herself, or lelouch's spirit

this in contrasts to an entrie half episode DEDICATED SOLEY to his death
including the most definitive "death scene" i have ever seen
life flash before eyes
epic character defining last words
dying in the arms of a loved one
and a full explenation on WHY he HAS to die for the world to move on and be at peace

there NOT a lot of points to refute that death
there is ONE LINE, that comes after an entire MONOLOGE by kallen who is talking to him (while knowing full well that he is dead)

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by zongetsu

Sure the staff said he died. I said he died too. But ultimately he was brought back to life. Hence he lives. Now, sure I would believe he was dead but there are too many things that refute the point. For instance are you telling me that:

NUNNALLY CREATED HER OWN SUPER POWER THAT WAS NOT STATED BY THE CREATORS THAT ALLOWED HER TO "SEE" LELOUCH' PAST?

If you cant, eat it your own words please.

Again, shoddy reasoning. He didn't die and come back to life. People with the Code do not die at all. You're just twisting words to make yourself feel better. He's dead. Plain and simple. not "dead and came back", not "temporarily dead", just plain fucking dead. The "too many things" you mention are just straws you pathetically cling to in order to justify a pairing which has already been sunk.

As for your continued whining about Nunnally's magic hand powers, yes, the staff explained that too. It's a result of the Geass she had placed on her as well as being blind, or something to that effect. Point is, they do cover it.

[zongetsu]

Originally Posted by azul20

I don't think blade said anything different.

That is what he said however he said he wouldve been a douche for living and not dying. It was right in what he did. Just my way of justify it.

Originally Posted by azul20

Nope, it's an urban myth. There's no precedent to suggest this. Just pure conjecture.

That is very true, however it is very possible, very. How the code works only adds to the possibility. When you get it, it lies dormant in your body perserving the blue print so that it can regenerate you. When you die, it activates and then restores your body. Atm it is not active.

When you think about it, it makes sense.

That is perhaps how charles was able to fall to lelouchs geass the first time no?

If it was active like in the second case then geass wouldve been denied. IT was active here. geass did get denied.

If you think about it any other way, perhaps it automatically gives you an insigna and makes you immortal.

Charles would not have died. Obvious statement for the code would have denied it.

That means that it would no longer be a conjecture.

[zongetsu]

Originally Posted by morbofist

As for your continued whining about Nunnally's magic hand powers, yes, the staff explained that too. It's a result of the Geass she had placed on her as well as being blind, or something to that effect. Point is, they do cover it.

please show

as for the rest of what you said, people with codes do not die. I laugh. What if the get iron guilitined? or crushed by thousands of pounds of water pressure?

THey die, and are brought back to life by the code.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

you couldnt have missed my point more if you fired in a different direction and the point was on a different planet
and you ended up spliting my post into several different smaller post instead of addressing the OVERALL POINT of it

lelouch did a lot of shit in order to create his "perfect world"
if all the sacrifice to bring about this perfect world was made by OTHER PEOPLE, then how is he any different then shnizel
shnizel also acted out of what he believed was the BEST for the world
lelouch behaves like a monster douchebag to rival and even BEAT his father
if he does all this knowing that he would end up paying the ultimate price for his sins, then thats one thing (forgivable)
but if he does all this knowing that he's just going to cheat death in the end, then he's just a douche-bag

You amaze me more and more. But there is a difference, a big one. That is that both Charles and Shitzel were both doing it for what they believed in, that is a tyranny. Lelouch on the other hand allowed the world to decide for itself, to allow it to move forward.

Ultimate price leaving all society, friends, and even nunnally behind to live an immortal life. Watching his decisions and their consequences. Isolated.

Im sure that is worse. Death is the easy way out.

[bladeofdarkness]

i'm not even sure why were even TALKING about this as if its a question
putting aside the show itself that gave him such a comprehensive death scene that it could only make his death clearer if they had him crap his pants
every other official release confirms that he is indeed DEAD
this is a point mentioned REPEATEDLY (5 times) in the complete guide (you dont get more canon then the official guide, at least as far as side material goes)
dead

P.S
dont double post
and if lelouch is alive, then there IS no difference in the morality of it
only in the methods

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by zongetsu

please show

as for the rest of what you said, people with codes do not die. I laugh. What if the get iron guilitined? or crushed by thousands of pounds of water pressure?

THey die, and are brought back to life by the code.

It's buried in the general discussion thread.

Their cells are still active to allow regeneration, hence no matter how badly injured they do not die.

Give it up already. The staff has shot down your position, repeatedly. You have no position to argue from. All you're doing is grasping at straws.

[bladeofdarkness]

the staff also sank his SHIP
which he also refuses to admit for now
i rather think the two issues related

[synaesthetic]

All I know is if Lelouch does get brought back to life in any way, shape or form, I will be terribly disappointed in Sunrise.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

All I know is if Lelouch does get brought back to life in any way, shape or form, I will be terribly disappointed in Sunrise.

this messege brought to you by: word.com
"your online one stop shop for all things true"

[elite.s0ldier]

The writers said that lelouch vi Britanna is dead not lelouch Lamperouge.

Am i right or wrong?

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by elite.s0ldier

The writers said that lelouch vi Britanna is dead not lelouch Lamperouge.

Am i right or wrong?

your wrong
the writers say that LELOUCH is dead
they say it 5 different times in the complete guide
and repeat it again and again in all subsequent releases
the "its lelouch vi britannia, not lelouch lamperuge" argument was from the fact that in ONE magazine the list of deaths has him appearing under THAT name
which is a pointless argument, since he himself always refers to himself as such when giving orders and stuff
lamperuge is just a cover name he and nunnaly hide under in ashford
its not who he actually IS

[eaglei3]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

All I know is if Lelouch does get brought back to life in any way, shape or form, I will be terribly disappointed in Sunrise.

Why? They do it all the time.

[zongetsu]

Originally Posted by morbofist

It's buried in the general discussion thread.

Their cells are still active to allow regeneration, hence no matter how badly injured they do not die.

Give it up already. The staff has shot down your position, repeatedly. You have no position to argue from. All you're doing is grasping at straws.

So are you telling me that their cells regenerate so fast that it practically gives them an immortal impenetrable body? That is not the type of immortality it gives them. It merely is eternal life.

For instance, CC got shot in the head, she bled. That alone proves that her cells did not regenerate fast enough to allow her not to die.

And then, how did CC get out of the ocean after being crushed by hundreds of thousands of pounds of water pressure? Thats right, not dying sure.

They can die, but their existance is forever. They will be brought back. Haha not dying while having no head...theyre dead, they just grow a new one and live.

And please do find the part showing nunnally's super power and lets not hope its geass-net.

Originally Posted by morbofist

Give it up already. The staff has shot down your position, repeatedly. You have no position to argue from. All you're doing is grasping at straws.

Actually you should give up. I can state everything about anything from code geass and give a plausable reason while you on the other hand cant. When something does not go accordingly you just point to "word of god". Well i can "word of god" myself.

It gets pretty difficult no? not to mention the constant repeating of useless facts. Take for example Bladeofdarkness. THat kid constantly says the guidebook says lelouch is dead, like 5 times. Well it doesnt say super nunnally can read minds. Does it?

So, how the hell did the final scene happen? Ask yourself the question and please do not answer "of course she is reading his mind, she did it in ep 15 with ms. roymeyer!"

As for the reason why lelouch had to be listed dead in the magazine. The answer is simple. We all saw his death but we saw no hardcore evidence of his survival. Only the theory. However suzaku was not listed dead even though he was. The reason was because we saw his face in the final episode. That is what made him live.

But, why would even the official website still list lelouch as alive? Crazy isnt it? And dont be like other people and tell me that geass.jp is not the official website. LMFAO can you believe that people actually told me it wasnt because it was powered by BIOGLOBE?

Hell yes, proves only how much they know

Bladeofdarkness if you want to fight official material please fight the OFFICIAL website which is still being update which STILL shows lelouch alive. Please debate that.

It would make sense to change that. But i guess its not canon enough to.