[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[k//eternal]

About that, Eva did say "that human may be able to use magic, and therefore, be a witch" or something to that effect. I think she didn't care too much about whether that was problematic for Beato, knowing that she was within the "human count" on the island anyway.

[MUDSKIP]

Hah. Bought and played Umineko 1-4 last month. EPIC. XD
And now...I'm drooling. For 5.

OP looks yummy. XD Screenshots are pretty yummy too.

Btw, how long has it typically taken for the Witch Hunt to release a translation? I don't want to get my hopes too much for when I get the game and then get to wait half a year for the translation to be released. :P

This new girl...cute. I'm definitely gonna be a fan of her. XD

I fried my brain awhile back coming up with theories, which is why I'm not throwing out crazy ideas at the moment. I'm just going to sit back, relax, and enjoy this show of epicness.

Ah, speaking of which, the anime...Well, this is my first time playing a visual novel before watching the anime, but I'm finding it to be sub-par. Although on the other hand their biggest competition is Suzumiya and the Endless Eight, which...well...ROFL. I quote from blogsuki: "Ballsiest move ever by an animation company."

[unconfirmed]

And to add to that, even if we assume the meaning of the statement "Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board." to be that
"since ONLY humans are capable of doing this, then it would imply that when NO human is capable of it yet it still happens, then a supernatural power must exist, aka witch"
by Proposal 1 we can still say that witches do not exist, it's all imaginary, therefore the event must be imaginary as an imaginary witch exists. By doing so, we can completely eliminate Ep 3 as a candidate for what really happened on Rokkenjima. Or at least just that aspect of it, after all Beato might be using a mix of facts and fantasy to trick meta-Battler.

[Shamisen]

Originally Posted by Risa chan

Spoiler:

My thoughts about the OP of EP5 :


O:39 about the Shadow , i first thought it was a siesta or Eva_bea , but if that's not . Well i don't know who this can be.

Spoiler for Thoughts:

Looks like 5 people. From what I can tell, it seems like the bottom-halves of Eva, Rosa, possibly Kinzo, Krauss and Natsuhi. Hard to tell that last person though.

[Christen]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

It's possible that it applies to EP3 only, though, given the wording.

I'm aware of that, but the fact is it is unfair if one person in a game board is not considered a human, while in another game board he is. Based on the theory, we can't consider Battler to be a human only in Ep.3.

This red text also prevents us from thinking that the 17 people currently alive in Rokkenjima are not humans. While supernatural elements might participate in other game boards, the 17 people should be human across the board.

[unconfirmed]

Originally Posted by Christen

I'm aware of that, but the fact is it is unfair if one person in a game board is not considered a human, while in another game board he is. Based on the theory, we can't consider Battler to be a human only in Ep.3.

This red text also prevents us from thinking that the 17 people currently alive in Rokkenjima are not humans. While supernatural elements might participate in other game boards, the 17 people should be human across the board.

First of all you've read my theory wrong. Battler and meta-Battler are completely different. The former exists as a human being while the latter is the fake playing the game with Beato. Therefore, we CAN consider Battler to be a human in Ep 3. Therefore, nothing contradicts the red.

I've already explained in my previous posts
Explanation 1: meta-Battler's physical existence has no effect on that fact that the real Battler exists as a human on the game board if one were to open the Schrodinger cat box. As in, the possibilities while the box was closed will have no effect on the final result. Since parallel game boards are just "ifs" and "maybes" and imaginary, what Eva-Beatrice says can only apply to the opened box's game board. In which case, Battler is a human being.

Explanation 2: if you say that Eva-Beatrice's red applies to imaginary board number X and NOT the result, then the entire game board can be wiped clean and erased. After all, my theory states that the real Battler was part of the 17 that arrived on Rokkenjima. A board where he does not exist can never become the result when the box is opened. Therefore, the real Battler is still a human being. He exists a human being if the red is directed to only Ep 3 or every single game board in existence.

It's like putting a penny into an empty box. No matter how many possibilities you come up with using witches and magic, the result will never be a dollar bill.

[izmosmolnar]

Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board

Hohoho... Which means witches don't participate on the game board either. I wonder whether Battler is going to counter somehow like that.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

Hohoho... Which means witches don't participate on the game board either. I wonder whether Battler is going to counter somehow like that.

If I were Beatrice, I'd counter it with 'I just possessed a human being and made him do as I wished'

Or, as Eva-B already explained:

ただし、その人間は魔法が使えたかもしれないわ。
……それは即ち、魔女だったということ。
……それがつまり、この私。

[Jan-Poo]

Yeah the problem is Eva-Beatrice whole strategy was to make it impossible for a human to be the culprit, because she said there are only 3 people alive and all of them not only are innocent but they didn't physically hurt Nanjo, which excludes double personalities and possessions too!

If a witch is a "human" with magic powers then that witch should count as the 18 person limit.

This is where Eva-Beatrice failed. And Battler failed even more by not noticing.

The only way Eva-Beato could counter is by saying that she animated a dead person, but in that case it would have been a "body animated with magic" and not "a human with magic powers" and certainly not "her herself" as she states.

[izmosmolnar]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

Or, as Eva-B already explained

Yeah if I'm correct (I'm not sure being illiterate and really bad ad IDing different letters) that's the part between the red texts:

Spoiler:

A human, with their feet on the ground, held up a weapon and killed with it! Right before his eyes! However, the human may have been able to use magic. ......Which means, it was a witch.
(　地に足の付いた人間が、凶器をかざし、それにて殺した！　眼前にて！　ただし、その人間は魔法が使えたかもしれないわ。……それは即ち、魔女だったということ。 )

To be honest, if it's so obviously surrounded by red text from both sides, I'm pretty sure the part not in red is wrong, and unless she includes that in red too (which she cannot as that'd make her win the game) I'm 100% sure it must be false (ergo she didn't possessed anyone, and/or there was no magic involved at all. Otherwise the "However the human may have been able to use magic" part would have been inside the red part too).

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

If I were Beatrice, I'd counter it with 'I just possessed a human being and made him do as I wished'"

The same goes if Beatrice would say she possessed someone. Even Battler knows that "You can't trust anything, you can't trust any words that aren't red...!!", ergo if Beatrice would try to counter my argument (= a witch cannot participate on the gameboard due to "Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board", hence the humans are being murdered by other human beings, with no magic involved whatsoever) by claiming that she possessed someone, then we could call that a lie since it's in blank white, and thus worths less than a rat's ass .
(And as I said she cannot proclaim it in red that "I possessed someone", because that would automatically make her the winner and end the game.)

[theacefrehley]

Of course she can't say "I possessed X" in red, simply because the witch's talk is all bullshit

I'm just playing the devil's advocate here

If she were to say in red that a witch did this and that, it'd be all over and Battler would not be able to answer back

I'm just justifying her sentence: "Only humans take part in the game"(1) in logical way, taking the anti-mystery side.

The possession (or corpse reanimation) would be a way for a 'ghost' to take part in the game without breaking (1).

I understand (1) as: "Things must be done by human hands, even if they are doing it by possession, hypnotism, hallucination, magic..."


And a human corpse is still a human being... (unless someone give us declares in red the opposite)
It doesn't become a rock or a dog or a tree after death.

[Jan-Poo]

Yeah the dead body could work, what can't work is

1) I'm a human witch in the island. <- that would count on the the people limit, magic powers or not, a human is a person.

2) I possessed someone. <- She denied that by saying that Eva Battler and Jessica didn't physically have anything to do with Nanjo's death.

So the only option left is "I animated a dead body".

[MUDSKIP]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Yeah the dead body could work, what can't work is

1) I'm a human witch in the island. <- that would count on the the people limit, magic powers or not, a human is a person.

2) I possessed someone. <- She denied that by saying that Eva Battler and Jessica didn't physically have anything to do with Nanjo's death.

So the only option left is "I animated a dead body".

Which, from the anti-fantasy point of view, means somehow somebody faked their death along the way.
The best candidate? Hm...it's been awhile...Hideyoshi? Since Eva at least did shoot Battler... I don't remember the details of the chapter...*runs off to umineko4.exe*

EDIT:
Btw, at 1:02 in the OP, whose that in the background behind [transparent] Battler? It looks like Bern to me, but...Probably the new witch? Hm. >.>'

[tehjoker]

Spoiler for bs theory:

The new girl is actually Natsuhi-Beatrice.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by MUDSKIP

EDIT:
Btw, at 1:02 in the OP, whose that in the background behind [transparent] Battler? It looks like Bern to me, but...Probably the new witch? Hm. >.>'

This is indeed Bern floating in the background (probably the flow of the kakera, something like this).

[Nih]

I actually like new girl on the portrait. I wonder what her name could be.

P.S. Then again, I'm not sure we need another witch at this point. I would feel bad for Battler.

[Golden Witch Drugs]

I agree there. We've had enough witches. I would be happy if they introduced some new human characters (Although alot of 1989 characters were introduced in ep 4 I'd rather have some new humans on the island)

[Teapot]

I think we don't need anymore new characters

[tcaz2]

Originally Posted by Teapot

I think we don't need anymore new characters

But we haven't quite hit 50 yet!

Yeah though I think it's getting a little excessive, I wonder if he's ever going to go an episode WITHOUT introducing more.

[Nadeor]

Alaala~EP5 thread is already on huh~
Well let's all look forward to the Solution arcs~~

P.S. Chiru huh, that's something new, I thought it would be like "Kai" as "Saan" XD