2009-07-23, 07:58 | Link #422 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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yes. even after the various murders they never say: it's blood. And at the same time when they really find blood (like in the dining room) they instantly recognize it as blood.
Also it is said that the rain caused that dark red substance to drip in the shed, but if it was blood it would have been completely washed away. It appears that this substance is more sticky than normal blood.
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2009-07-24, 06:24 | Link #423 |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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I finally finished the first chapter... maybe it's just me but I'm with Battler in that I really don't like the "A witch did it" answer, if mostly just because it seems to render the whole mystery pointless. How did the witch do it? Magic! How did she escape? Magic! The whole thing kind of felt like it was drifting into self-parody by the end with the witch reveal which kind of makes it feel like it didn't really happen. Besides, there's just some part of me that simply doesn't accept an otherwise ethereal witch who has to make her escape out through a boiler room.
There are only two parts that really feel like they require a special explanation: Eva and Hideyoshi's murder in their room and how Beatrice's letter turned up in the middle of the study near the end. For the first... well, I've got nothing. On the other hand, they didn't really examine the room very closely so I'm not *too* put off by that, there may have been a trick to the room or the killer may have even still been inside of it hiding. For the second it seems to me there's two probable suspects, either Maria or Natsuhi put it there... The part about the first twilight that particularly struck me was why would you go to the trouble of smashing in someone's face and to which I could only see two likely reasons - either the intimidation factor (which seems like way overkill, half a dozen corpses and a weird magical symbol cover that area quite well by themselves) or to make identification impossible. How do you identify a bloody pulp? By looking at their clothes, personel effects - all of which are easily transferable. I'm almost certain the real killer must be one of the supposed first twilight victims who dressed up someone of approximately their own height and build as theirself and then proceeded to play whack-a-face until nobody could tell the difference. By the same token this would mean that the real killer is one of those who had their faces totally destroyed (the last three victims also fit the pattern but I'm ruling them out since at this late point there wouldn't be any real advantage to being "dead"). But that theory brings up its own problems, how did the body double get to the island? How were they moved around without anyone noticing them? They couldn't have been killed much earlier than the others or the rigor mortis test would have stood out to even to an amateur... I also considered the possibility that one of the first twilight victims might have just been pretending to be dead along with the real victims but the difficulty of pulling it off aside (the doctor would pretty much have to be in on it) you'd have to be a complete and utter psychopath to lock yourself in and pretend to be dead in a shed with a half dozen corpses - if someone's that far up the crazy river they should be far past rational planning. So, who was it? I was delighted to find that the "hint" screen included representations of the state of death, a bit of beyond-the-fourth-wall nudging that This Was Important (and you've really got to love the disquieting comments that some of the victims get attached to them). The most likely murder suspect seems to be the Rudolph, mostly because of his "I think I'm going to be killed" that so rubs me the wrong way premonition. It requires him to have killed his wife unless she was actually still alive too, she also had her face thoroughly bashed in so maybe she was "Beatrice"... But if she was the one who Maria saw why'd she spend an evening poking holes in the credibility of the letter... I wanted it to be Krauss because of the Natsuhi link but sadly he was one of those whose faces were at least somewhat recognizable. I'm not happy about picking Rudolph because I can't attatch a motive to him but hell, I can't attatch a motive for anybody. Even if a survivor of the 17-person massacre miraculously showed up they aren't just going to be handed over the family fortune, they're going to have a hell of a hard time convincing the outside world that a witch killed everyone between them and the money. And if they can't get the money, what's the goal? So... in short, not really happy with anyone I can point out as a suspect but methodically at least it doesn't feel unworkable. Trying to find a motive for any of it really seems blank though. Oh, and why is it that when you pick the "execute" option in the post-game tips screen everyone dies *except* the grandfather? It smells like red herring but there is an interesting little seemingly ooc note about him liking to secretly leave his hideyhole and take walks around the mansion on occasion. I still don't think it was a witch so nyah nyah Beatrice I guess. |
2009-07-24, 06:52 | Link #424 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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The theory of the killer being one of the six people in the shed is pretty popular, but not many people have thoroughly though about this.
The shed was closed with an external lock, not only that. It was then closed again with another lock. And the only key to that new lock was taken by Natsuhi. So if one of the six was the culprit you must explain how he managed to close the shed and how he managed to get out. An easy explanation is that there is a secret passage in the shed. If not, you need to think that there is an accomplice, who closed the culprit inside and then opened the door for him. However opening the door was no easy task. Unless the accomplice is Natsuhi herself. If she isn't then the culprit must have used a tool to cut the lock.
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2009-07-24, 07:14 | Link #425 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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More than anything though it just seems to me that if you murder a bunch of people, drag them into a shed, proceed to mutilate the bodies to the point of being unrecognizeable, and *then* close the door in on yourself, lie down, and pretend to be dead too you've got to be so far up on the crazy train that there's no way you won't constantly be going "Toot toot!". |
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2009-07-24, 17:04 | Link #430 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
It's probably not as if anyone ever went back to check on the garden shed though. Polydactylity was mentioned as being a relatively common trait in the Ushiromiya family, could any of the first harvest victims also have possessed it? If so you can get double use out of a corpse, everyone sees them the first time then you drag it back down to the boiler room, burn it, and voila - a second body. That would put Kinzo back on the list of suspects and explain the otherwise MO-breaking charnel process. |
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2009-07-25, 04:14 | Link #431 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Indiana
Age: 32
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I just finished watching Episode 1, the Tea Party, and the ????. ... What the hell?
Spoiler for Spoilerish thoughts:
I have lots of questions that I hope are answered as I continue to read the visual novels. I still need to scrounge up the money to buy episode 4 so it might be awhile. In my opinion one of the most annoying characters in the series, for me, is Battler. Maybe it's because I tend to lead towards the magical side of things, so I do believe that Beatrice exists and she was the reason for the deaths on Rokkenjima. The way he tried to explain his thinking seemed to be pretty weak; just saying that a human was in charge of it even though he had no real proof. Although he did make a good point saying that automatically believing a Witch was the cause because they didn't want to think a human did it was also absurd, as a new viewer I can't think of any other logical explanation of how those deaths occured. Also, if I hear the phrase "Turning the chessboard around..." one more time, I'm going to be cracking some skulls. So far the series has me very interested. I might stop watching the anime and just stick with the visual novels. Even though the visual novel had lots of boring parts, like the discussion of how the money will be split up... that seemed to take an hour or two, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Haha... sorry if this post is sorta pointless. I was just trying to gather my thoughts on what I just watched. |
2009-07-25, 05:50 | Link #432 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Quote:
Even so, think of it this way. If Beatrice is the real source of the deaths, and magic is the answer to everthing... then the story and premise of Umineko don't make any sense for the beginning, right? "A witch did it", after all. Last edited by sento; 2009-07-25 at 06:00. |
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2009-07-25, 06:41 | Link #433 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Indiana
Age: 32
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Ah I see. That didn't really click with me until now. Still, I'm not too sure what to think after just watching Episode 1, especially after they somewhat introduced
Spoiler for people?:
About the Battler vs Beatrice thing, sorry I didn't word it right (I really need to get some sleep haha). I agree with you that as of right now both of their points are pretty weak. When you talk about the beginning do you mean Kinzo's reason for bringing everyone to Rokkenjima on that certain day, or...? I'm not quite following you. |
2009-07-31, 18:31 | Link #435 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Just saying. |
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2009-07-31, 18:38 | Link #436 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Quote:
Ryuukishi wrote a clear challenge to the players. It's translated on Witch Hunt webpage. And in the last interview he clearly said that he want to us to keep theorizing and that he is really suprised on how resilient players turned to be. You didn't get what I was implying with that line. I only wanted to give him a push into the theorization party. |
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2009-08-04, 13:39 | Link #438 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Okay I have to say I was a Higurashi fan for a while, and I didn't think I'd like this series when I found out about it last year based on the summaries I'd heard...but when the Anime started, I thought I'd give it a chance. I read the first 10 chapters of the Manga first, and I wasn't happy with all the Anime cut once I saw that version...so I thought until the rest of the chapters are scanslated I will definitely play this game (I always wanted to play the Higurashi games as well but I just never got around to it, and I had access to the whole Anime and multiple Mangas to satisfy myself so I got lazy). I just finished episode one and read all of this thread so I thought I shall share my thoughts.
Spoiler for various thoughts:
Edit: Wow, now I see that on page 22 people are pointing out the 'who is the fake body' fact...I hadn't finished the last page before I write this, I was so eager to get my thoughts off my chest, sorry eheh ^^; |
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