Claymore Chapter 94

[MisterJB]

shiek927 asked me to post his toughts on the new chapter so here they are

Honestly, for me, this chapter was so-so:

My biggest disappoinment was these Mini-Raciellas. What is Yagi thinking? I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because we don't know more about him, but considering what a poor reception the Eaters got, why is it necessary that Claymore needs another flock of overpowered creatures? why? Aren't the Feeders enough?

Alicia and Beth I don't believe are as strong as they appear. Obviously they have improved greatly(Im prepared for a dozen "i told you so's" from Revan XD), but this is her first true battle and we need to be skeptical. Riful was weakened(though not a great deal; notice her arms are normal when she awakened), but not by a great deal I think by the Eaters.

Which brings up a point: Why are the Feeders just standing there? Regardless if more then half are destroyed or not, they're just standing like statues).

At any rate, Alicia and Beth seem to be going to where Raciella is....which is stupid. She said she would consider her a target...but apparantely they've never improved the mental department which makes sense. I still believe both of them will die in the next several chapters.

Dauf for all intents and purposes is already dead. It annoys me to no end that another chapter has gone with him still alive, but he's lost one entire arm and has HOLES in his chest; remember that he has extremely slow regeneration and I doubt he can use his mouth rods now. Even though he hasn't lost his head yet, he's completely defenseless and may even die from his injuries.

As hard as Yagi was on Riful, I think she's not down for the count. She was caught by surprise twice; by the AE's and A&B. Since the Twins seem to be going for Raciella on a whim, she'll be smart and retreat ASAP if she wants to live. She's alive because, considering the attention Isley got when he died, I think we would have seen something more concrete if she really died.

Happy to see Raki survived the attack , hard to say what he will do next. He may try to take Priscilla away so she won't fight; I think the meeting will come soon as well. He's seen these arrows and is now probably worried sick about Claire.

Next chapter is Do or Die for Riful, pure 50/50 chance in my opinion: Either she manages to escape, probably alone, or she dies, whether from her current injuries, Raciella, the Ghosts, the returning Alicia or the AE's. The AE's still remain on the battlefield so probably them.

As much as I like Riful, she'll probably die next chapter, the odds are very very high. I guess I'll just have to read it as quickly as possible while you reap every single second of it XDXD.

I think it's also extremely important not to overestimate Alicia and Beth like I said before. She looks overwhelmingly strong, but like I said, it's only because it's her first true battle and the moment she's been waiting for. Riful's odds of surviving are bleak but that's not purely because of Alicia. We can't just say Alicia > Riful just because of what we saw, especially since Alicia is not flawless in the brains department as we saw.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by iLney

I think most of us agree that Clare inherit a cup size from Rafaela.

Quoted for truth.

[Ryus]

MalakTawus in the future if you say something happened in the manga please site your reference. I had to reread every last bloody page that talked about yoki prediction and manipulation just to figure out what you might talking about. I'm sorry if I guessed wrong but if I did guess wrong you have only yourself to blame.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

The prediction ability is DIFFERENT from a simple yoki reading.

Wow, you are so mixing up Irene's words.

To clarify them for you... When Irene told monkey girl (Noel), that Teresa's sensing ability was beyond normal yoki reading, she was saying that Teresa's yoki sensing was beyond theirs. They could only sense auras when Teresa could not only do that but she could also sense the strength and speed of the yoki through out the body. Irene wasn't telling us that yoki prediction and manipulation where different. Please remember this was the first real time in the manga we learned about predicting movements and Yoki manipulation was just an idea in Yagi's head still a year or more away from being published..

Spoiler for Large Image:

Now to show you why we "mix it up". When Riful was explaining Galatea's power to Clare she said this... "Her specialty is the reading of yoma energies down to their most miniscule detail" Now I don't know about you but that says the same thing that Irene said about Teresa except that maybe Riful said it cooler or at least hinted that Galatea was better at it. When you get down to it "both" powers sense yoki down to it's lowest level but one uses what it senses to send out yoki to manipulate an opponent and the other uses what it senses to better dodge and counter attack. If you ask me the only difference is mental (or how the user chooses deal with what it senses) , the power at it's core is both manipulation and prediction it's up to the user to choose how..

Spoiler for Large Image:

Now, later Riful says that if an opponent puts more power into an attack then Galatea can manipulate then all she can do is see it coming... Wow, kinda like predicting an opponents movements. Except that Duff was way stronger then Galatea. So all in all the wording in English is identical. Also remember Riful says to Clare that any yoki sensor is a potential manipulator, so its the same power but a different aspect of it. Which means that no matter how you argue it, I'm right, the power has the same source and therefore is the same thing just used differently.

Also note that many time in the Galatea vs Duff battle and Galatea vs Mitia vs Agatha battles that Galatea was noticing incoming attacks before they hit her. However she wasn't able to react in time, the are four explanations that I can think of:
1) The actual RAW translation is different for the Irene and Riful statements and I'm working a theory off a bad translation
2) That all the opponents she was fighting hit her when she couldn't dodge and/or attacked faster then she could predict there movements due to those fights being so one sided
3) That Galatea just practiced with Yoki manipulation more then sensing so she defults to manipulation in battles, this is great until it doesn't work then she needs to focus to predict.
4) That Teresa could have manipulated too but since she never released her yoki she just got used to predicting movements and due to her insane power she never needed to manipulate yoki to win a fight.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

It's said clearly in the manga that to be able to predict the enemy's moves Teresa doesn't focus only on the yoky of her opponent.

Yeah it did... well in the Teresa arc anyway. There is only 2 comments in the Teresa arc that deal with yoki prediction. The one listed above (Irene's comment to Noel) and Teresa's comment about Priscilla having too muck yoki in every part of her body to read the flow.

We did get another clue about yoki prediction in the slashers arc though. It was when Clare was walking at the male AB.

Spoiler for Large image:

So we did get a few other facts, well at least in Clare's case since Miria told use that training would help her. Once again all this proves though is that yoki manipulation and prediction are the same power but used differently. Since both require the user to sense the opponents aura in detail.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Galatea is probably the best in yoki reading,but she CAN'T predict the moves like Teresa.People seems to confuse this,Galatea and Teresa have very different abilities.

Just to sum up my argument here. Reading the flow of yoki through out the body, aka advanced yoki sensing, is the only requirement for both prediction and manipulation. The only difference is how the Claymore with advanced yoki sensing abilities chooses to use there power.

If I'm still not getting through perhaps I should rephrase my criticism of manipulation and prediction being different powers. Ok, Galatea is about to manipulate Duffs attack but suddenly she realizes that she can't successfully manipulate Duffs arm since she has no clue where his arm is going in the first place. Yet, somehow we saw that she was successful in making Duffs arm miss hitting her time and time again... Gosh! Could it be that she is predicting where the attack is going then taking prediction to the next level and veering it off course and away form her? Nah that makes too much sense.

[Awakened]

I think Galatea sensing has to do with her opponents emotions, and Teresa has to do with her opponent physical flow of yoki, like Neje in Naruto.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Awakened

I think Galatea sensing has to do with her opponents emotions, and Teresa has to do with her opponent physical flow of yoki, like Neje in Naruto.

What? No debate?

Well, to be fair... I guess my long posts can deter some from debating me... Sorry.

[rukori]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Quoted for truth.

Hurray to that!!
Sadly, it's much more likely that Yagi got the proportions wrong once again..

Oh, and can someone pm me a link to the raws?

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by rukori

Hurray to that!!
Sadly, it's much more likely that Yagi got the proportions wrong once again..

That or Teresa is finally "blooming" inside of Clare!

[zato_1one]

I can't see why some people think that Alicia changed her target to Raciella.

Spoiler for pic:

She just dodged those. How could you tell that she changed her target? By just her line of sight when she was dodging? It doesn't make any sense that she will suddenly change her target. Don't forget that the one who control her is Beth. Why does Beth want Alicia to go to another target and leaves her behind with Riful&Dauf? I understand that they consider Raciella as their target too. But they won't go there before finishing with Riful.

Thanks to Sagara, now we know that Alicia's blade works like Ophelia's technique. That really explains a lot. It means that Jean's drill sword isn't only one technique that can destroy Riful&Dauf armor. In fact, Ophelia's rippling sword looks much more effective.

Spoiler for off topic:

Originally Posted by Blablabla

(don't mind, don't mind... Bakemonogatari's hotie is turning my hormones hot )

Hail to Senjougahara!

[Serrintine]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I can't see why some people think that Alicia changed her target to Raciella.

Spoiler for pic:

She just dodged those. How could you tell that she changed her target? By just her line of sight when she was dodging? It doesn't make any sense that she will suddenly change her target. Don't forget that the one who control her is Beth. Why does Beth want Alicia to go to another target and leaves her behind with Riful&Dauf? I understand that they consider Raciella as their target too. But they won't go there before finishing with Riful.

Thanks to Sagara, now we know that Alicia's blade works like Ophelia's technique. That really explains a lot. It means that Jean's drill sword isn't only one technique that can destroy Riful&Dauf armor. In fact, Ophelia's rippling sword looks much more effective.

Those are my thoughts exactly. But it does look like Alicia is either gliding in the same direction as the spears or charging in the opposite direction and I was thinking she would most likely be going in the same direction if not just simply dodging.

The difference between Alicia's blades and Ophelia's rippling sword is that there are hook like extensions on the blades, making them more deadly. I don't think Ophelia's technique alone can damage Dauf that much?

[SagaraSouske]

@Ryus, I am assuming what you referring to as youki reading is actually youki sensing - detection of yoma, AB, other claymores etc? Youki prediction should be actually youki reading - that's how the Japanese Kanji reads. The kanji for youki sensing and youki reading(Prediction) are different.

Youki manipulation is a 3rd ability yet with another different Japanese Kanji and is a skill that only Galatea and the AB in Pieta possesses thus far. It require the user to use their own youki to manipulate his or her opponent's youki.

All 3 abilities are from the sensing branch of abilities and each has different requirement of control and youki level.

妖気感知 - Youki Sensing
妖気読み - Youki Reading
妖気同調 - Youki Manipulation

So by their different names in Japanese, we can assume they are different abilities.

Also, while Galatea also possess Youki Reading, her specialization in that is more on reading emotions or reading from long range rather then prediction for attacks. That may explain why she can use youki reading as her eye when she is blind but cannot dodge Agatha's attacks or cannot dodge Dauf once her manipulation stopped working.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I can't see why some people think that Alicia changed her target to Raciella.
She just dodged those. How could you tell that she changed her target? By just her line of sight when she was dodging? It doesn't make any sense that she will suddenly change her target. Don't forget that the one who control her is Beth. Why does Beth want Alicia to go to another target and leaves her behind with Riful&Dauf? I understand that they consider Raciella as their target too. But they won't go there before finishing with Riful.

I don't see any proof that Alicia dodged the spears. I see her flying between the spears, but that doesn't exactly look like dodging to me. Usually when you dodge, you go in a direction sideways to avoid something, but she is going in a direction towards the source. Anyway, I still question if Alicia and Beth make rational decisions. We've seen two cases of the Organization Brain washing. 1) Miata ignoring Agatha while agatha chips away at her, which would seem to support the notion of her continuing to fight Riful. 2) The zacs sort of lobotomy job, which they suggest is based on the work done on the twins, where they attack whoever is attacking them, despite having a main target. It's hard to tell what the did to Alicia. She seems to be able to alter her orders, in that she included adding Raciella to those orders, where there is no evidence of a distinction of priority between the two. To me it was an irrational decision, so I do not trust Alicia's rationality. That makes question of why she would do something illogical pointless to me, since until she proves otherwise, I don't trust her judgment.

Thanks to Sagara, now we know that Alicia's blade works like Ophelia's technique. That really explains a lot. It means that Jean's drill sword isn't only one technique that can destroy Riful&Dauf armor. In fact, Ophelia's rippling sword looks much more effective.

Just because Alicia version works doesn't mean that Ophelia's version would've.

[Serrintine]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

I don't see any proof that Alicia dodged the spears. I see her flying between the speers, but that doesn't exactly look like dodging to me. Usually when you dodge, you go in a direction sideways to avoidsomething, but she is going in a direction towards the source.

The spears are insanely fast from what I can see. Riful couldn't respond to them at all (although she was worrying about Dauf and her size is a problem). Perhaps Alicia is going with the flow as a means of dodging. It also seems that the spears are coming from a wide range of directions, so going sideways may not have seemed like a good idea to Alicia.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

Thanks to Sagara, now we know that Alicia's blade works like Ophelia's technique. That really explains a lot. It means that Jean's drill sword isn't only one technique that can destroy Riful&Dauf armor. In fact, Ophelia's rippling sword looks much more effective.

Although it was effective it was nothing compared to Quick sword...and I am hoping that clare can easily through off Alicia's blades and even cut riful with her current level of quick sword...

[SagaraSouske]

We can assume Alicia dodged the spears. It did't seem like Racilla would not target Alicia since it is attacking everyone indiscriminately. Alicia is faster then Ritful and we don't see Ritful dodging her and if it wasn't for Dauf helping her for the first time, she using her ribbons to block for the second time, and attacking Beth with ribbons causing slow down in Alicia at the 3rd time, Alicia would have reached her.

[SagaraSouske]

Originally Posted by sonotme_9FedriqSama

Actually I think it's the other way around...Youki Yomi (妖気読み): yoki reading is something all claymore do which like detecting yoma and all where as Youki Kanchi (妖気感知) is Youki sensing which Teresa excelled and is levelled as "S" and Galatea is A+ at and so are Alicia nad Bess....

Youki Kanchi is what everyone has and the entire branch of abilities is Kanchi. Youki Yomi is what Teresa, Clare and Galatea has, although Galatea's version is a bit different.

[sonotme_9FedriqSama]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

Youki Kanchi is what everyone has and the entire branch of abilities is Kanchi. Youki Yomi is what Teresa, Clare and Galatea has, although Galatea's version is a bit different.

Yup I deleted that post thats why.......That the main reason Galatea can't dodge her oponnent movements because she doesn't know where they land although she can sense the strenght of youki in them she can't predict its move

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

I don't see any proof that Alicia dodged the spears. I see her flying between the spears, but that doesn't exactly look like dodging to me. Usually when you dodge, you go in a direction sideways to avoid something, but she is going in a direction towards the source. Anyway, I still question if Alicia and Beth make rational decisions. We've seen two cases of the Organization Brain washing. 1) Miata ignoring Agatha while agatha chips away at her, which would seem to support the notion of her continuing to fight Riful. 2) The zacs sort of lobotomy job, which they suggest is based on the work done on the twins, where they attack whoever is attacking them, despite having a main target. It's hard to tell what the did to Alicia. She seems to be able to alter her orders, in that she included adding Raciella to those orders, where there is no evidence of a distinction of priority between the two. To me it was an irrational decision, so I do not trust Alicia's rationality. That makes question of why she would do something illogical pointless to me, since until she proves otherwise, I don't trust her judgment.

It looks like that way because those spikes come quickly from every direction. She has to move swiftly between those spikes. In previous chapter, they clearly stated that Riful was their first target. I don't think they will suddenly change it when they have a very good chance to finish their first objective.

Just because Alicia version works doesn't mean that Ophelia's version would've.

I mention her name because I want to give her some credits. And there is no proof that she couldn't too because she already dead.

Originally Posted by sonotme_9FedriqSama

Although it was effective it was nothing compared to Quick sword...and I am hoping that clare can easily through off Alicia's blades and even cut riful with her current level of quick sword...

Each technique has its own merit. It may or may not suitable to use in some situations. At least Quick Sword can't cut through Dauf's armor compare with Drill Sword.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

@Ryus, I am assuming what you referring to as youki reading is actually youki sensing - detection of yoma, AB, other claymores etc? Youki prediction should be actually youki reading - that's how the Japanese Kanji reads. The kanji for youki sensing and youki reading(Prediction) are different.

Youki manipulation is a 3rd ability yet with another different Japanese Kanji and is a skill that only Galatea and the AB in Pieta possesses thus far. It require the user to use their own youki to manipulate his or her opponent's youki.

All 3 abilities are from the sensing branch of abilities and each has different requirement of control and youki level.

妖気感知 - Youki Sensing
妖気読み - Youki Reading
妖気同調 - Youki Manipulation

So by their different names in Japanese, we can assume they are different abilities.

Also, while Galatea also possess Youki Reading, her specialization in that is more on reading emotions or reading from long range rather then prediction for attacks. That may explain why she can use youki reading as her eye when she is blind but cannot dodge Agatha's attacks or cannot dodge Dauf once her manipulation stopped working.

Your right what I was referring to as youki reading is actually youki sensing. MalakTawus called it that and I just went with it since I didn't feel like debating what yoki reading and sensing are any further then I already was. I figured everyone would know what I meant. Sorry for any confusion.

However I stand by my argument that all are the same ability just used differently and/or the next level of the basic sensing technique. They are just different applications of the same ability. It's like saying rippling sword, stretchy arms, and drill sword are all the ability to manipulate ones arms. Helen proved to be able to learn two of them (stretchy arms and drill sword) and Alicia just used two herself (stretchy arms and rippling sword (arm )). So saying Galatea can predict moves is no logic leap. The problem is some want more cataloging abilities and wanting set rules then trying to understand the abilities at there core. Once you understand them I believe you can speculate better.

Also every Claymore seems to have a slightly different sensing abilities, so judging all manipulation moves of based off Galatea is just daft. After all the AB in Pieta seemed to not read emotions at all, yet he blew Galatea way in manipulation abilities.

I'd also like to point out that 9 out of 10 times Galatea when failed to dodge an attack, that she was in the air at the time the attack was launched and still in the air when it hit her... so how can she be expected to dodge the attack until she can fly. It also implies that Galatea should stop high jumping around and stay low to the ground so she can actually dodge. After all you didn't see Teresa jumping like a freak to charge an opponent, though she did jump away from them.

Just because a Claymore doesn't specialize in an "attack (or sensing technique)" it doesn't mean that they can't master another similar one with the same basic "ability" behind it. So if there specialization is in the same category as the other "ability" in question, then that Claymore has the potential to master that "attack (or sensing technique)". So you can assume there all different moves all you want, however I have very good grounds for my speculation.

Hell, I'd even go as far as saying that I'm close to how Yagi goes about deciding how character grow, if there going to . Now I'm very sure he has a FAR BETTER SYSTEM and has put a life time more thought into this than me, but I believe I'm on the right track. Though no where near the master. I'm not just memorizing what's in the manga but using it to try to figure out what's going on behind the manga.

Finally could someone please answer how Galatea can manipulate attcks away from her if she can't predict where there going in the first place? Since the very word manipulate implies at least some understanding of what you're manipulating is doing and going to do.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Ryus

Irene wasn't telling us that yoki prediction and manipulation where different. Please remember this was the first real time in the manga we learned about predicting movements and Yoki manipulation was just an idea in Yagi's head still a year or more away from being published..

I generally disagree with everything you said. You ignore a major part of Yoki manipulation and that is Yoki alignment. Galatea aligns with the target and is able to tweak the attack, not predict it. A little to the left or a little to right or whatever direction. If we look at Yoki like radio waves she tunes into the exact frequency of the transmission and is able to cause a fluctuation in it. Teresa yoki prediction isn't similar. She instead predicts the actual flow and movement of the Radio wave/Yoki to predict its traveling destination.

I also don't know why you assume because Galatea is quick enough to dodge his attacks she must be predicting it. Last time I checked Claymores have been able to dodge attacks from AB's without either ability.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

We can assume Alicia dodged the spears. It did't seem like Racilla would not target Alicia since it is attacking everyone indiscriminately. Alicia is faster then Ritful and we don't see Ritful dodging her and if it wasn't for Dauf helping her for the first time, she using her ribbons to block for the second time, and attacking Beth with ribbons causing slow down in Alicia at the 3rd time, Alicia would have reached her.

If those spears were aimed at her, and they are going down, while she is going up, then she is heading towards Raciella, since her vector is parallel to the projectiles.

Anyway, it still isn't clear just how much dodging she had to do. it depends how soon she sensed something was aimed at her, and how fast she can find a safe path to travel between the projectiles.

Originally Posted by zato_1one

It looks like that way because those spikes come quickly from every direction. She has to move swiftly between those spikes. In previous chapter, they clearly stated that Riful was their first target. I don't think they will suddenly change it when they have a very good chance to finish their first objective.

I don't see spikes changing directions. The spikes are all coming from the same directions.