AnimeSuki Forums

taro-kun · 2003-11-28, 10:11

Does anyone know it?
One of the greatest manga have ever read.
It's about war ,mafia, prostitution, religion, with many question about life and death, etc.
The story begins in a post-apocalypse background, in which a young boy tries to survive, helped by a robot called cherubim.
Becareful, it's a very violent manga!
To make yourself an idea about the kind of story, you may try the Short Stories from Hiroki Endo (the author). (Wow, my english is horrible!! @_@)

tsurumaru · 2003-11-28, 18:18

Hey this is quite a good series, it does have some VERY graphic scenes of violence in it though which might put some people off. I thought it was one of the only other series in Afternoon magazine that was sometimes more violent than parts of Blade of the Immortal, or Narutaru.

Saying that though it does seem to have a very interesting plot and it still keeps me returning to the story which is obviously a sign of its quality.

Morrigan · 2004-08-13, 15:46

I like it, too. I'm now reading vol. 07 and that's quite strange, because usually I really detest violence in manga. I'm not the type for spreading blood and cutted ears and so on. But this manga really has an interesting plot and while you're reading, you think that Hiroki Endo draws violence not just for fun but to show a world which is not very far from reality.
and las but not least: he's a fantastic artist. I like his artwork very much, he really has his very own drawing style and you recognise him out of thousands.

stpehen · 2004-08-13, 16:55

Endo's a great author.
Unfortunately, it's quite clear that his unique brilliance is very diluted in Eden by the many battle scenes and technical detours. His short stories are REALLY good, and the only thing in Eden that really matches is up is the first chapter, which is the most similar to his concentrated one-shot quality.

ACGalaga · 2009-03-16, 05:45

Bringing this thread back from the grave!

I refuse to read scanlations of this manga so please no spoilers.

Currently, I'm enraged that my order of vol. 11 has been DELAYED!!!!! GRRRRRR!!!!

You think the best manga since Ghost in the Shell would be talked about more on this forum.

Not to mention, it's also Wizard Magazine's Best Manga of 2008.

**Solace** · 2009-03-16, 20:44

Really? I didn't think it was that great. The story shifts gears from all sorts of different plot points, and as they start to converge together it's all a little generic. The individual plot points actually made for interesting stories (except perhaps the Colloid, it felt like a rip on Blue Gender with a slight mix of Evangelion).

The author certainly has a good grasp of grounding sci-fi into a plausible and gritty, yet realistic setting, but that's about the only thing that kept me reading the first few volumes. After I ran out of pages, I realized I didn't really care about what happened to the characters or their world.

Perhaps a rather harsh on the review, but what made Ghost in the Shell great wasn't just the setting of the story, but the introspection the audience could pull from the plot and characters. I can't say the same for Eden, although credit is fairly given for trying, and the art is really good.

Wargumm1i · 2009-03-16, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

Really? I didn't think it was that great. The story shifts gears from all sorts of different plot points, and as they start to converge together it's all a little generic. The individual plot points actually made for interesting stories (except perhaps the Colloid, it felt like a rip on Blue Gender with a slight mix of Evangelion).

The author certainly has a good grasp of grounding sci-fi into a plausible and gritty, yet realistic setting, but that's about the only thing that kept me reading the first few volumes. After I ran out of pages, I realized I didn't really care about what happened to the characters or their world.

Perhaps a rather harsh on the review, but what made Ghost in the Shell great wasn't just the setting of the story, but the introspection the audience could pull from the plot and characters. I can't say the same for Eden, although credit is fairly given for trying, and the art is really good.

No thats acutally rather accurate too my thoughts

since what you just said was actually true, since the first few volumes were decent, but as the plot and the story dragged on, it became... well rather pointless and boring.

But still I guess overall it did have it good points and bad points.

If I had too rate this manga I would give it 6/10.

denice25 · 2009-03-16, 22:28

haven't seen it.. but based on your replies guys.. i think it's a must read book...

ACGalaga · 2009-03-16, 23:09

Ouch! So harsh!

Well, I found myself to enjoy quite a few of the characters as well as there journeys... and then they'd die and I'd cry.

Well, it's been a while since I've read the previous volumes, but I think it at times to be a look into the artist own struggle for the concept of self. Who cares whether it's 'like Eva' in those aspects. (The main character is way less emo) The artist's afterwards are also a great highlight of the series.

Boring?! I guess it's not for everyone, but the story certainly has picked up in the more recent of translated volumes.

There are very few long running manga series I enjoy and this happens to be one of them. I was hoping to get some more discussion on the series itself, because aside from the personal opinions of a few, it is a decent series.

**Solace** · 2009-03-17, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACGalaga

Who cares whether it's 'like Eva' in those aspects. (The main character is way less emo)

You missed the point of the comparison. Ignoring all the religious aspects and technobabble, the real point of Eva was "what makes a human, a human?" Is it the mind, or the body, or the emotions, or the gender, or the sense of self? When forced to make a choice between a complete merging of existence to a world of no pain or suffering, where everything and everyone is the same, Shinji rejects it. In his realization, what makes life important is that while everyone shares struggles, hopes, and fears, joys, those same things also make them who they are, and affirm their existence. Through struggle you learn, grow, and live. A life with nothing to be, do, or future isn't life - it's just existing for the sake of existing.

So when I'm comparing the Colloid, the concept of the sea of AT is basically the same, while also comparing the idea explored in Blue Gender, where the planet itself is rejecting the path humanity has taken. In this context you can extrapolate where the Colloid, a "thing" that is essentially a mutated virus, can be considered a mix of both these concepts.

What I dislike about the Colloid is that the elements of the story it is relevant to are superficial. The avatar of the Colloid, Maya, seems to me as being very manipulative. I do not believe he cares about the goals he preaches about to the characters. Instead it feels like he preys upon the emotions of humans to feed his creature. The concept of self is there, but demonstrated in simple ways - loved ones appearing, pseudo religion forming around it, the slow withering of sense of self into basic shared data.

The beginning of the manga was far more interesting because the story was tightly packed with character growth and strong plot. Once the story started expanding to include the Colloid it left the realm of "Read compelling stories of difficult struggles with morality and what it means to be human in a world at the end of its days" and went into "biological computer virus seeks to create a universe in itself while main characters are all affected by it in some way."

And yes, Shinji is damn emo.

ACGalaga · 2009-03-17, 00:32

Well, with those examples you gave from Eva, then I guess it pulls from any existential material. I've never read (watched?) Blue Gender, it may be up my alley if you keep comparing it to Eden.

When you say the beginning of the story, how far do you mean?

Honestly, I haven't read much about Maya since he escaped the airport assignation thing in volume 8 (and that's pretty much right after he awakens if I remember). Besides, Maya's kind of a bad guy isn't he. We start to feel a bit of empathy for the Colloid once we learn it's a gestalt of all the thoughts it has consumed. Maybe an evolution of life? It still has that "this is bad" vibe however, and I wish to have some of my thoughts kept to myself.

I know about 20 have been written so far but as I said in an earlier post, I've been refusing to read scanlations (due to the fact I like reading it on the train and what not).

It seems like you have a good knowledge of this series and some of the examples you give as criticisms only entice my curiosity of this series more. I've also been forming the bad habit of frequently returning to this forum for discussion (I'm at work and shouldn't be writing paragraphs of debate

).

How much of Eden have you read anyways?

**Solace** · 2009-03-17, 00:53

I can't go by volumes, the latest chapter I have read is up to 105 if that helps. You aren't very far into the story actually, so I'm thankful I didn't spoil too much.

Blue Gender is an anime about a future where most of mankind has fled the planet to live above it due to nature taking a violent turn against humans because of their abuses of science. It is graphic and at times it is difficult to understand, but at the end all the plot wraps up pretty well (although I'm a little mixed on the ending, it at least does it without much ambiguity). It doesn't try to be as "near future" with technology and style as GitS or Eden, but it isn't Gundam either.

I'd say Maya is more ambiguous than bad (queue stereotypical maniacal villain here

). His motivations aren't exactly clear, and as you'll see when you read more chapters his actions aren't always in line with his message.

Bandersnatch · 2009-03-17, 01:40

I stopped reading Eden over a year ago and decided to reread the volumes I have about a week ago. Powered through volumes 1-6 and it renewed my interest in the series. Volume 3 still had the same impact on me as when I first read it. Looking forward towards picking up more volumes, his artwork is amazing.

I also read some of his short stories in Tanpenshu, but didn't find them too memorable. I'll give it another shot.

Fevvers · 2009-03-17, 06:12

I thought Endo's actually much better when it comes to writing one-shots, particularly For Those of Us Who Don't Believe in God. I'm still enjoying Eden though, despite not meeting my much higher expectations.

ACGalaga · 2009-03-17, 23:21

Quote:

I can't go by volumes, the latest chapter I have read is up to 105 if that helps. You aren't very far into the story actually, so I'm thankful I didn't spoil too much.

Yeah, I'm actually only up to chapter 68. I've really enjoyed the past few volumes (particularly when Kenji and Sophia came back into the story).

Quote:

I thought Endo's actually much better when it comes to writing one-shots, particularly For Those of Us Who Don't Believe in God.

Yeah, I really liked his shorts. Especially that one you mentioned. It was interesting to read a story by an artist/writer, about a play written by a writer who's one of the characters in the story.

Have you been able to read the afterwards by Endo? I find them to be incredibly moving and inspirational at times. Not sure if they were translated during scanlations. I'll post a few if you are interested (I only have a couple of English volumes with me though).

Soconfused · 2009-03-17, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

The beginning of the manga was far more interesting because the story was tightly packed with character growth and strong plot. Once the story started expanding to include the Colloid it left the realm of "Read compelling stories of difficult struggles with morality and what it means to be human in a world at the end of its days" and went into "biological computer virus seeks to create a universe in itself while main characters are all affected by it in some way."

This is exactly how I feel, the first part of the manga, well, actually everything up to the whole Colloid thing was incredible, but I feel it's taken over too much of the manga. Either way Eden is easily one of my top 5 favorite manga, simply amazing and I would recommend it to anyone, I even recommend it to friends who don't even like manga.

But yeah it's ridiculously gory and messed up at times, but thats one of the reasons I love it, I'm a sucker for violence.

Fevvers · 2009-03-18, 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACGalaga

Have you been able to read the afterwards by Endo? I find them to be incredibly moving and inspirational at times. Not sure if they were translated during scanlations. I'll post a few if you are interested (I only have a couple of English volumes with me though).

Hmm... I'm not certain if I have; I read Tanpenshu a looong time ago. It would be nice if you could post them though, if time permits that is.

ACGalaga · 2009-03-18, 08:33

Here you go, hope you enjoy!

There's are the only volumes I have on me at the moment.
Endo can get a little ranty in these essays, but I think they are still amusing.
The afterward from Volume 3 is probable my favorite of the bunch. Volume 2 is also good, for it explains his intentions as an artist and how it apples to his stories.

Volume 2: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/623...afterward2.jpg
Volume 3: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/277...afterward3.jpg
Volume 8: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/283...afterward8.jpg
Volume 9: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1492/edenafterward9.jpg
Volume 10: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6241/edenafterward10.jpg

Fevvers · 2009-03-19, 05:44

@ACGalaga: Oh, you mean those afterwords! I've read some of them before with the volumes I have here, interesting reads, some me me laugh actually. Thanks anyway!

ACGalaga · 2009-03-19, 19:42

That's cool.

You know, if time permits, maybe someone could U/l the afterward from volume 4-7. I'd greatly appreciate it (for I don't have access to the English translated books unless I import them).

As for volume 1; I have a English copy with me, it's with a friend at the moment.

2003-11-28, 10:11	Link #1
taro-kun Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lille-France Age: 38	Eden: It's an Endless World! Does anyone know it? One of the greatest manga have ever read. It's about war ,mafia, prostitution, religion, with many question about life and death, etc. The story begins in a post-apocalypse background, in which a young boy tries to survive, helped by a robot called cherubim. Becareful, it's a very violent manga! To make yourself an idea about the kind of story, you may try the Short Stories from Hiroki Endo (the author). (Wow, my english is horrible!! @_@)

2009-03-16, 20:44	Link #6
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	Really? I didn't think it was that great. The story shifts gears from all sorts of different plot points, and as they start to converge together it's all a little generic. The individual plot points actually made for interesting stories (except perhaps the Colloid, it felt like a rip on Blue Gender with a slight mix of Evangelion). The author certainly has a good grasp of grounding sci-fi into a plausible and gritty, yet realistic setting, but that's about the only thing that kept me reading the first few volumes. After I ran out of pages, I realized I didn't really care about what happened to the characters or their world. Perhaps a rather harsh on the review, but what made Ghost in the Shell great wasn't just the setting of the story, but the introspection the audience could pull from the plot and characters. I can't say the same for Eden, although credit is fairly given for trying, and the art is really good. __________________

2009-03-17, 00:53	Link #12
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	I can't go by volumes, the latest chapter I have read is up to 105 if that helps. You aren't very far into the story actually, so I'm thankful I didn't spoil too much. Blue Gender is an anime about a future where most of mankind has fled the planet to live above it due to nature taking a violent turn against humans because of their abuses of science. It is graphic and at times it is difficult to understand, but at the end all the plot wraps up pretty well (although I'm a little mixed on the ending, it at least does it without much ambiguity). It doesn't try to be as "near future" with technology and style as GitS or Eden, but it isn't Gundam either. I'd say Maya is more ambiguous than bad (queue stereotypical maniacal villain here ). His motivations aren't exactly clear, and as you'll see when you read more chapters his actions aren't always in line with his message. __________________

2009-03-17, 01:40	Link #13
Bandersnatch Gantz Survivor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kamogawa Gym Age: 40	I stopped reading Eden over a year ago and decided to reread the volumes I have about a week ago. Powered through volumes 1-6 and it renewed my interest in the series. Volume 3 still had the same impact on me as when I first read it. Looking forward towards picking up more volumes, his artwork is amazing. I also read some of his short stories in Tanpenshu, but didn't find them too memorable. I'll give it another shot. __________________ Shun me, for I am frumious!

2003-11-28, 18:18	Link #2
tsurumaru I refuse to die dammit! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Age: 47	Hey this is quite a good series, it does have some VERY graphic scenes of violence in it though which might put some people off. I thought it was one of the only other series in Afternoon magazine that was sometimes more violent than parts of Blade of the Immortal, or Narutaru. Saying that though it does seem to have a very interesting plot and it still keeps me returning to the story which is obviously a sign of its quality.

2004-08-13, 15:46	Link #3
Morrigan debris collector Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Switzerland (yeah, the centre of universe! XD) Age: 35	I like it, too. I'm now reading vol. 07 and that's quite strange, because usually I really detest violence in manga. I'm not the type for spreading blood and cutted ears and so on. But this manga really has an interesting plot and while you're reading, you think that Hiroki Endo draws violence not just for fun but to show a world which is not very far from reality. and las but not least: he's a fantastic artist. I like his artwork very much, he really has his very own drawing style and you recognise him out of thousands.

2004-08-13, 16:55	Link #4
stpehen kisses for all Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ぶちゅー！ Age: 40	Endo's a great author. Unfortunately, it's quite clear that his unique brilliance is very diluted in Eden by the many battle scenes and technical detours. His short stories are REALLY good, and the only thing in Eden that really matches is up is the first chapter, which is the most similar to his concentrated one-shot quality.

2009-03-16, 05:45	Link #5
ACGalaga Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nabari	Bringing this thread back from the grave! I refuse to read scanlations of this manga so please no spoilers. Currently, I'm enraged that my order of vol. 11 has been DELAYED!!!!! GRRRRRR!!!! You think the best manga since Ghost in the Shell would be talked about more on this forum. Not to mention, it's also Wizard Magazine's Best Manga of 2008.

2009-03-16, 22:28	Link #8
denice25 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009	haven't seen it.. but based on your replies guys.. i think it's a must read book...

2009-03-16, 23:09	Link #9
ACGalaga Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nabari	Ouch! So harsh! Well, I found myself to enjoy quite a few of the characters as well as there journeys... and then they'd die and I'd cry. Well, it's been a while since I've read the previous volumes, but I think it at times to be a look into the artist own struggle for the concept of self. Who cares whether it's 'like Eva' in those aspects. (The main character is way less emo) The artist's afterwards are also a great highlight of the series. Boring?! I guess it's not for everyone, but the story certainly has picked up in the more recent of translated volumes. There are very few long running manga series I enjoy and this happens to be one of them. I was hoping to get some more discussion on the series itself, because aside from the personal opinions of a few, it is a decent series.

2009-03-17, 00:32	Link #11
ACGalaga Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nabari	Well, with those examples you gave from Eva, then I guess it pulls from any existential material. I've never read (watched?) Blue Gender, it may be up my alley if you keep comparing it to Eden. When you say the beginning of the story, how far do you mean? Honestly, I haven't read much about Maya since he escaped the airport assignation thing in volume 8 (and that's pretty much right after he awakens if I remember). Besides, Maya's kind of a bad guy isn't he. We start to feel a bit of empathy for the Colloid once we learn it's a gestalt of all the thoughts it has consumed. Maybe an evolution of life? It still has that "this is bad" vibe however, and I wish to have some of my thoughts kept to myself. I know about 20 have been written so far but as I said in an earlier post, I've been refusing to read scanlations (due to the fact I like reading it on the train and what not). It seems like you have a good knowledge of this series and some of the examples you give as criticisms only entice my curiosity of this series more. I've also been forming the bad habit of frequently returning to this forum for discussion (I'm at work and shouldn't be writing paragraphs of debate ). How much of Eden have you read anyways?

2009-03-17, 06:12	Link #14
Fevvers a regular van veen Join Date: Feb 2007	I thought Endo's actually much better when it comes to writing one-shots, particularly For Those of Us Who Don't Believe in God. I'm still enjoying Eden though, despite not meeting my much higher expectations.

2009-03-18, 08:33	Link #18
ACGalaga Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nabari	Here you go, hope you enjoy! There's are the only volumes I have on me at the moment. Endo can get a little ranty in these essays, but I think they are still amusing. The afterward from Volume 3 is probable my favorite of the bunch. Volume 2 is also good, for it explains his intentions as an artist and how it apples to his stories. Volume 2: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/623...afterward2.jpg Volume 3: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/277...afterward3.jpg Volume 8: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/283...afterward8.jpg Volume 9: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1492/edenafterward9.jpg Volume 10: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6241/edenafterward10.jpg

2009-03-19, 05:44	Link #19
Fevvers a regular van veen Join Date: Feb 2007	@ACGalaga: Oh, you mean those afterwords! I've read some of them before with the volumes I have here, interesting reads, some me me laugh actually. Thanks anyway!

2009-03-19, 19:42	Link #20
ACGalaga Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nabari	That's cool. You know, if time permits, maybe someone could U/l the afterward from volume 4-7. I'd greatly appreciate it (for I don't have access to the English translated books unless I import them). As for volume 1; I have a English copy with me, it's with a friend at the moment.