(L) Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ (Nitroplus & Bee Train)

[orion]

Originally Posted by Zwei

What if he shot Elen first, then went for Reiji? This should explain why she was standing and then she was suddenly on the floor, not moving.

It should also explain her expression, smiling like she was about to die.

If Elen got shot first, Reiji would have reacted imo. It's like the cart driver took a potshot at one and kept going imo.

[alexkapi12]

How do we know it was the cart driver?

[Griffith]

Originally Posted by alexkapi12

How do we know it was the cart driver?

Who else would it have been? It was either him, or a hypothetical person hiding under the bales of hay in the cart since no one else was around.

[Mei19]

Originally Posted by Zwei

BeeTrain did an ending where it's left up to the viewers to decide the ending.

Reiji could have been killed along with Elen, seeing as the ending where Elen turns back and smiles, I don't know....just doesn't make sense, unless she died along with him as well.

We also can't say he really is DEAD for sure, I mean, when he got shot 4 times by Sycthe, he was still alive after all and I'm sure he did get one or two vital shots out of 4. He might have survived, he might have not.

Hell yes. Quoted for Truth. Still reading some posts that think Elen got poisoned by a flower petal and died looking at the sky make me laugh my head off.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Griffith

That doesn't seem very likely. Reiji would've seen it, and the driver was coming from the complete opposite direction of Elen.

Then, he shot Reiji, Elen suddenly reacted to the gunshot when she turned around and then he killed her as well while catching her off guard.

Originally Posted by orion

If Elen got shot first, Reiji would have reacted imo. It's like the cart driver took a potshot at one and kept going imo.

True, but I think Reiji should have reacted to the gunshot, so I think that they finally thought they won't need to live the life of assassins anymore and they let their guard down.

The past comes back to haunt you.

[npal]

Well, talk about a pointless watch... Kinda pity, too.

Judging by appearances and common sense, they should be dead. Reiji is the most obvious case but Elen isn't that far behind. The clouds behind her are moving as she disappears, then we get her lying still with the same expression she had as she was disappearing. I register that as "Inferno's assassin was being rational, saw both of them, killed Reiji, killed Elen, left, the end".

Reiji more than Ein deserved to die almost as much as Scythe Master. Their deaths had no real meaning other than karmic retribution. I got nothing out of their deaths other than "oh, they're dead, meh."

The conclusion of the story fails for me. In a short summary, it was just some bad guys killing some other bad guys who in turn get killed by some other bad guys, but then some other bad guys come to kill the other bad guys but end up getting killed, while the whole issue has numerous individuals of varying degrees of crappy karma getting killed in the process, with the only one who actually seems like regretting the whole thing being Lizzie.

To sum up, making me not care about the protagonists' or the main villains death... Good job there...

[orion]

Originally Posted by Zwei

Then, he shot Reiji, Elen suddenly reacted to the gunshot when she turned around and then he killed her as well while catching her off guard.



True, but I think Reiji should have reacted to the gunshot, so I think that they finally thought they won't need to live the life of assassins anymore and they let their guard down.

The past comes back to haunt you.

She dropped wrong for being shot period. She's just looking up at the sky imo.

They shouldn't have truly lets their guard down since they were looking into Inferno's affairs.

It's an open ending but Bee Train should have just given us the proper ending.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Griffith

Why do people think Elen could be dead? There was only one gunshot, and she was nowhere near Reiji so it couldn't have hit both of them.

Personally I believe Elen died because the way she stood out slowly then turned around with a unsmiling face then pauses for about 2 secs then smiles leads me to believe she might have been facing down the assassin's gun after he killed Reiji and accepted her death at that time. Also we hear the first gunshot that killed Reiji so we don't need to see a bullet for it which would probably be on the road instead of grass but the bullet would show that Elen also met the same fate, also her staring blankly at the sky would give that impression. I really don't think Inferno would let her live.

Though I don't really think BeeTrain left Reiji's death up for interpretation though if you honestly want to believe he's alive I won't stop you. It pretty much makes the entire ending scene pointless if he didn't die and kills all the emotion.

[Griffith]

Originally Posted by Zwei

Then, he shot Reiji, Elen suddenly reacted to the gunshot when she turned around and then he killed her as well while catching her off guard.

I still don't see how that could be possible. There was only one gun shot, so he couldn't have shot both of them, not to mention the fact that he kept on driving after taking the shot.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Though I don't really think BeeTrain left Reiji's death up for interpretation though if you honestly want to believe he's alive I won't stop you. It pretty much makes the entire ending scene pointless if he didn't die and kills all the emotion.

Actually, the VN crowd would prob not buy the DVDs due to the ending if he really died. It's not an official ending for the pathway.

Bee Train screwed over the Elen pathway imo.

Originally Posted by Griffith

I still don't see how that could be possible. There was only one gun shot, so he couldn't have shot both of them, not to mention the fact that he kept on driving after taking the shot.

Besides, that would have counted as an Elen shot(s) which aren't possible due to no more Elens being around.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by orion

Actually, the VN crowd would prob not buy the DVDs due to the ending if he really died. It's not an official ending for the pathway.

Bee Train screwed over the Elen pathway imo.

I personally don't really care. The VN fans aren't really a good judge of the ending because from what I can tell they stuck in the opinion that BeeTrain is obligated to adapt a route from the VN. They are wrong. Judge the ending on it own basis not on your preconceptions. BeeTrain ending in my opinion works very well. Sad while being visual and musically well done.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Griffith

I still don't see how that could be possible. There was only one gun shot, so he couldn't have shot both of them, not to mention the fact that he kept on driving after taking the shot.

Isn't that why I said it's a possibility? Because it didn't show, like how Reiji is still alive and all.

Anyway, since all I'v been posting is about the ending, I'm gonna comment on the whole episode.

I felt the "Numbers Sisters" were a bit dull. According to Sycthe, they should have been created on Ein's, Zwei's and Cal's data and they should have been ALOT stronger.

Elen completely destroyed them. Now, I don't know if it's because she knows all of their weak points, since she was created like them, but I felt that the only reason is because they lacked true experience in combat.

As for Reiji, I guess he really made use of Cal until the end. I'm also still mad that there was no wedding scene! even after 6 months....

The music was fantastic as expected, really, if BeeTrain has one thing to be proud of, it's their choice of music. They really do fit in the scenes.

I'm sure some people were a bit disappointed with Sycthe's death(including me), it was really mediocre I must say, he didn't show the expression when he was about to get killed by Reiji in episode 10-11, and with Elen crying, it didn't feel satisfying. I wanted him to suffer.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

I personally don't really care. The VN fans aren't really a good judge of the ending because from what I can tell they stuck in the opinion that BeeTrain is obligated to adapt a route from the VN. They are wrong. Judge the ending on it own basis not on your preconceptions. BeeTrain ending in my opinion works very well. Sad while being visual and musically well done.

It's an adaptation of the VN that was following it closely until this blip. If they wanted to do an alternate universe title, then they should not have picked a 10th anniversary title to screw over imo.

A VN adaptation is expected to follow the VN imo.

I so hope that they suffer financially for this debacle.

You'd think they would have learned their lesson after TSUBASA.

[Mentar]

Aw come on, wishing them financial harm is the epitome of a childish reaction.

If you really have such qualms with an adjusted ending, which happens to be entirely in the mood of the show and also happens to be quite logical, then just ignore that the last minute happened.

[g1alpha]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Aw come on, wishing them financial harm is the epitome of a childish reaction.

If you really have such qualms with an adjusted ending, which happens to be entirely in the mood of the show and also happens to be quite logical, then just ignore that the last minute happened.

MAY THEY BURN!!!!!!

....sry, I just had to do that. Well anyways, I have decided to obliterate every memory of that last scene from my mind. That scene never existed. The series ended with Reiji smiling while watching Elen. Nothing happened after. ABSOLUTELY nothing happened after. I refuse to acknowledge that there was ever a scene after that. Reiji and Elen never died and lived happily together.
O_O

[FuzzyWuzzy]

ENDING WAS SO STUPID!!!

I REPEAT!!! STUPID!!!

So Reiji is this elite assassin dude called phantom.
Survived countless assassins and elite assassins.
Then he got killed by a noob unknown assassin.

Anyone else find that so stupid?

[orion]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Aw come on, wishing them financial harm is the epitome of a childish reaction.

If you really have such qualms with an adjusted ending, which happens to be entirely in the mood of the show and also happens to be quite logical, then just ignore that the last minute happened.

You don't see Studio Deen screwing over Umineko. No, we had to have these a*****es. Financial ruin is too good for them imo. Burning in hell is not soon enough imo. Pain and suffering needs to be dished out while they're still alive imo.

[GDB]

At least they gave a nice fade to black before skipping to the... "ending." This way, that last bit can be cut off and still be nearly the same as the true Elen ending, without being obviously edited (which I intend to do sometime this week).

[FuzzyWuzzy]

It took them 26 episodes to make a great series.
However, it only took them 30 seconds to ruin everything.

[Ghostfriendly]

An amazing end, unexpected and bitter. I was hoping that Elen would totally defeat Scythe Master by feeling compassion for him, and breaking her emotionless state, but she let herself feel the pain and guilt of murder instead. Scythe's description of her mind was very cruel, and its a real shame she still thought she was going to hell. Hopefully she'll understand more about God and forgiveness in the future. I think she was knelt down in a depression, at the end so a gunman hiding in the straw on the cart wouldn't have seen her. From Reiji's face, I think he got to see her wonderfully individual smile as well.

I really don't see why people are missing this EinxZwei wedding so much, it sounds like a complete mood breaker. Shooting Reiji was a shock, but in line with the mood.

Originally Posted by Xander

Spoiler for ending:

I'm starting to think that the last couple of scenes need to be taken symbolically or even metaphorically in order to understand and appreciate how Elen is able to keep on living without Reiji. Trying to make sense out of it in a strictly literal manner leads absolutely nowhere, unless you want to suffer a headache.

Thanks very much for that idea; it really adds a ray of hope to the end.