Sand Chronicles

[blue skies]

@notcoolpeople: I don't mean to offend you either -- it just boils down to the fact that I prefer Fuji over Daigo. I love his character type and always seem to end up rooting for the underdog/Dream Boy's best friend in shoujo (aka: the losing side). This manga has been DaigoxAn from Chapter 1; I'm not so naïve as to think Fuji actually has a better chance in the end than Daigo, no matter how much I may want him to end up with An. But like you said, it's not done yet. I'm sure lots of things will change, and I may end up liking Daigo better than I do now, or Fuji's own feelings may do a 180. I'm not going to hate the manga or rage if Fuji doesn't end up with her; I'll still love it for the great story and its portrayal of young love.

But at any rate, I'm looking forward to seeing how it all turns out. This is one of the few manga I'm actually not reading spoilers for. Time will tell. ;>

[notcoolpeople]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

No offense intended on my part - just expressing my views. It's bitter being a Fuji partison, knowing you're almost certain to lose in the end! It's easy for Daigo-philes to be magnanimous - they know they probably hold the winning hand...

Ah! No offense taken. ^^ I'm a veteran in shoujo manga love triangle discussions and realize how intense it can be, especially when the mangas are as good as SC. I understand how bad it can be when one side seems to have more chance than the other as each chapter comes along. *Has Fruit Basket and Nana flashbacks ><;* I certainly will not fault you when you put it like that!

Eh, it's a wonder how the manga will end at this point. Please understand I like all the characters, but I think I am in your situation with one having a soft spot for one in particular. If Fuji and Ann are together I will definitely be upset, but won't hate Ann or Fuji for it. Someone mentioned Bokura Ga Ita; both this manga and BGI have a way of making me like all the characters and wishing they could all be happy.

(But then, would anyone be happy if FujixAnnxDaigo were all living together in the end?)

Originally Posted by blue skies

@notcoolpeople: I don't mean to offend you either -- it just boils down to the fact that I prefer Fuji over Daigo. I love his character type and always seem to end up rooting for the underdog/Dream Boy's best friend in shoujo (aka: the losing side). This manga has been DaigoxAn from Chapter 1; I'm not so naïve as to think Fuji actually has a better chance in the end than Daigo, no matter how much I may want him to end up with An. But like you said, it's not done yet. I'm sure lots of things will change, and I may end up liking Daigo better than I do now, or Fuji's own feelings may do a 180. I'm not going to hate the manga or rage if Fuji doesn't end up with her; I'll still love it for the great story and its portrayal of young love.

But at any rate, I'm looking forward to seeing how it all turns out. This is one of the few manga I'm actually not reading spoilers for. Time will tell. ;>

Amen! I take no offense. I agree that personal preference sure wins out in the end. If Fuji does indeed wind up as the suitor for Ann I hope Daigo finds someone. ^^; (And vice-versa).

I just want to say, too, that I really feel you on liking a character type in shoujo. To be honest, the person I usually like doesn't win (A la Marmalade Boy, Vampire Knight, Ouran..). I think that's why I'm rooting so hard for Daigo and Ann because my liking any pairing in shoujo seems to give it a 2% chance of happening. Lol!

I think Fuji and Daigo have an equal chance. That's why I can't rule out the possibility that Fuji may just win Ann's heart in the end. It's because Fuji and Daigo both have this incredible depth that it's hard to say. How natural Ann looks with both on the covers does not help.

To be fully honest, I have a few back up pairings when reading any shoujo. (Like, "If Daigo and Ann don't get together... let it be Daigo and such and such!") It kind of softens the blow for me after so much heartache when my OTP does not make it in a shoujo.

ahh, another long post.

[Guardian Enzo]

Sometimes the right pairing does win - look at True Tears. And since you mentioned it, Fruits Basket.

[notcoolpeople]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Sometimes the right pairing does win - look at True Tears. And since you mentioned it, Fruits Basket.

The trouble often is: what is the "right" pairing? It can be quite subjective at times.

(I haven't heard of True Tears before; I'll check that out.)

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by notcoolpeople

The trouble often is: what is the "right" pairing? It can be quite subjective at times.

(I haven't heard of True Tears before; I'll check that out.)

Nah - it's whatever I say it is.

(Kisa x Hiro, of course)

[golthin]

Originally Posted by notcoolpeople

The trouble often is: what is the "right" pairing? It can be quite subjective at times.

(I haven't heard of True Tears before; I'll check that out.)

I often consider the "right" pairing as the one where the first couple meet. If you think about it a lot of manga go that route. the most famous one where the set up was broken was Peach girl.

[blue skies]

Originally Posted by notcoolpeople

*Has Fruit Basket and Nana flashbacks ><;*

Nobu/Hachi shipper? Tell me you're a Nobu/Hachi shipper

I just want to say, too, that I really feel you on liking a character type in shoujo. To be honest, the person I usually like doesn't win (A la Marmalade Boy, Vampire Knight, Ouran..). I think that's why I'm rooting so hard for Daigo and Ann because my liking any pairing in shoujo seems to give it a 2% chance of happening. Lol!

I think Fuji and Daigo have an equal chance. That's why I can't rule out the possibility that Fuji may just win Ann's heart in the end. It's because Fuji and Daigo both have this incredible depth that it's hard to say. How natural Ann looks with both on the covers does not help.

We're the same in that regard -- I always go for the oddball that doesn't really have a shot. I'd like to think Fuji has an equal chance too, until something proves me wrong lol. If An doesn't fall for him or she runs to Daigo in the end, it will be a punch to the gut for me (depending on how it's done, I guess), but I'll get over it. Like I said, the storytelling and characters in SC are wonderful, and I'm not going to let my own preferred pairing cloud the brilliance of the plot -- I hate it when people do that.

I want the next volume. Like now.

(lol, can't help but ask... Hikaru/Haruhi partisan? Ouran's actually one of the few where I'm on board for the major ship, but someone in the manga thread is seriously making me think twice about Hikaru and Haruhi...)

Originally Posted by golthin

I often consider the "right" pairing as the one where the first couple meet. If you think about it a lot of manga go that route. the most famous one where the set up was broken was Peach girl.

Sometimes I like that, and sometimes I don't. A lot of shoujo seem to follow the "First Love = Last, period" rule. I'd like to see more girls getting their hearts broken and falling for the nice guy in the background more often. Probably why Cat Street is one of my favorites. ;>

[golthin]

Originally Posted by blue skies

Sometimes I like that, and sometimes I don't. A lot of shoujo seem to follow the "First Love = Last, period" rule. I'd like to see more girls getting their hearts broken and falling for the nice guy in the background more often. Probably why Cat Street is one of my favorites. ;>

you can count the number of manga where the nice guys or the rebound guy wins in one hand.
I never heard of Cat street before, i should look it up.

[notcoolpeople]

Originally Posted by blue skies

Nobu/Hachi shipper? Tell me you're a Nobu/Hachi shipper

All the way . Oh Hachi, Hachi, see the light, please, please.

We're the same in that regard -- I always go for the oddball that doesn't really have a shot. I'd like to think Fuji has an equal chance too, until something proves me wrong lol. If An doesn't fall for him or she runs to Daigo in the end, it will be a punch to the gut for me (depending on how it's done, I guess), but I'll get over it. Like I said, the storytelling and characters in SC are wonderful, and I'm not going to let my own preferred pairing cloud the brilliance of the plot -- I hate it when people do that.

I want the next volume. Like now.

The punch in the gut impact-- I know the feeling. *Rubs stomach from past experience*. I think I'll react the same way. I'm really grateful when the storytelling is so rich I can't regret the journey, even if the outcome wasn't what I hoped for. Like with Shiika: I hope so much that she can find her own happy ending too, and that we the readers won't be left in the shade about her. It's common for mangas to abruptly cut off any chance to know what happens to the minor characters. But even if that's so, I'll still be grateful to have read of her character anyway.

On supporting cast, I've been hoping that An's grandma will make it to the end. I worry that her grandparents won't always be there, but this line of thinking is probably unnecessary.
I want the next volume now too. Release schedules are modern torture, honestly.

(lol, can't help but ask... Hikaru/Haruhi partisan? Ouran's actually one of the few where I'm on board for the major ship, but someone in the manga thread is seriously making me think twice about Hikaru and Haruhi...)

My Hikaru/Haruhi wishes made its way through cyberspace! Lol! How did you know? I am such a big fan of that pairing! Even though I would be unbelievably happy if they ended up together I realize that Tamaki is too lovable to cast aside. I like him alot, but Hikaru just has a special spot for me. Again, the minute I wanted him with Haruhi I knew he was in trouble. *More resigned grumbles, lol* That happened with Kasanoda; I wanted him with Haruhi just as much as Hikaru. (But that ship sunk fast.) Sometimes, even my back-up fails me!

Memory lane is proving bittersweet here. Seriously, how did I give it away? My HikaruxHaruhiness? Was it the font? It had to be the font.

Sometimes I like that, and sometimes I don't. A lot of shoujo seem to follow the "First Love = Last, period" rule. I'd like to see more girls getting their hearts broken and falling for the nice guy in the background more often. Probably why Cat Street is one of my favorites. ;>

Ohhh, Cat Street. No complaints with that ending pairing, none whatsoever.

@Golthin: Cat Street is a really great manga! It's by the same creator of Hana Yori Dango but much more different in style and presentation. I don't think it can be recommended enough. The characters are all sympathetic and the pacing is slow and steady.

[Guardian Enzo]

Wow - serious SC traffic! I'm lovin' it.

This may sound weird, but I'm almost getting a vibe that we could see a Fuji/Shiika pairing in this. That would be exceedingly odd and a little "ick" and I can't point to any hard evidence. But it feels like that could be a wild card coming up. Sure hope I'm wrong.

[notcoolpeople]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Wow - serious SC traffic! I'm lovin' it.

This may sound weird, but I'm almost getting a vibe that we could see a Fuji/Shiika pairing in this. That would be exceedingly odd and a little "ick" and I can't point to any hard evidence. But it feels like that could be a wild card coming up. Sure hope I'm wrong.

That would be very odd. Oh boy... I hope that is avoided. I think I'd root for Fuji and Ann if it came to that.

Although, I guess it depends on how the story is told...? I can see Daigo and Shiika, speaking of her...

[Guardian Enzo]

My two word review of Sand Chronicles Vol 6:

BAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKA Ann!

Please note that BAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKABAKA is one word.

[Zwei]

Nervous Venus, many thanks for the awesome spoilers =)

I read this manga months ago, don't know why, but I got interested, kinda.

Also, IMO, this should be labeled as Josei and not Shoujo, because...

Spoiler:

Main female character who goes through countless men while still being in love with the main male character, are usually labeled as Josei? =)

At least, now I know how it ended.

[Guardian Enzo]

Spoiler for Vol. 6:

I don't read very much shoujo (or Josei, for that matter) manga, but a problem I often have that seems to be repeating here is that I really end up hating (or at least being very angry at) the heroine. It usually seems like they're the only one who can't see what a mess they're making of their own lives with dithering and selfishness. Now I could never hate Ann, partly because of what she's been through and partly because of her innate decency. But damn it, she's systematically wrecking the lives of everyone around her. No one had a gun to her head to break up with Daigo - but she did. So now? Because of it she has a chance with the guy she really should be with - the guy who loves her and understands her and can fulfill her in a way Daigo never can - and what does she do? She uses him and throws him away like an old kleenex. Is it supposed to be OK because she feels badly about it afters?

[Nervous Venus]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Daigo is a good guy, but it's so clear there's no basis for a long-term happiness between he and An. I hope Ashihara-dono doesn't take the easy way out and throw them together in the end - that would betray the very core of what this manga is about. It's a classic dilemma, but Fuji is the right man in the end - substance over style, understanding over enabling, depth over passion.

Reviving an old post. GE's probably going " Hey, what gives?!"

Just wanted to say that even if Ashihara-sensei throws Daigo and An together, that doesn't mean she's "taking the easy way out." In fact, I think you're being a bit too harsh as a Fuji-supporter, saying that it would " betray the very core" of what SC is about.

notcoolpeople mentioned this earlier that really struck a chord with me: Something along the lines of while people may have their differences, it's communication that helps bridge them together.

An is not at that point yet, not even with Fuji, because something very important is keeping her from fully opening up to him, something that Daigo realizes from the start, which is why he wants to protect her so much

Spoiler:

before the breakup

in v6.

Since you don't like big spoilers, I'll refrain from saying more, but I'd hate to think someone actually thinks that An is with Daigo only for the "passion" , and without any emotional depth.

[MikiMata]

I think that Ann and Daigo will probably end up together, because that is the shojo cliche. I have yet to read a shojo where the first guy the heroine -- well, to put it bluntly, sleeps with -- isn't THE guy for her. I guess that is one of the main differences from josei, where the heroine may sleep with various guys before ending with the right guy (or not - I'm looking at you, Ai Yazawa!). I'd really love to see a shojo where the protagonist actually moves on from her first love to find a lasting bond with a great new guy.

At any rate, I hope that Fuji just finds some happiness in the end. He deserves it. I'm thinking something like Marmalade Boy, where the "nice guy" who loses the main girl finds love with someone else.

On a somewhat off-topic note, one author who I think sort of straddles the border between shojo and josei is Miki Aihara. I'm currently reading Honey Hunt and I really don't know which guy the heroine, Yura, will end up with. In the latest chapters, she actually

Spoiler:

sleeps with the singer, Q-ta

which really surprised me this early in the story. I'd love it if this manga doesn't follow the typical shojo route.

[Nervous Venus]

Originally Posted by MikiMata

I think that Ann and Daigo will probably end up together, because that is the shojo cliche. I have yet to read a shojo where the first guy the heroine -- well, to put it bluntly, sleeps with -- isn't THE guy for her.

I think that's the majority, especially in mainstream shoujo, but I've read plenty where that isn't the case. (Let's cross our fingers that those get licensed some day.) Also, what makes or breaks the manga isn't the cliche, but how that so-called "cliche" is presented and plays out.

Not saying that you are (at least not yet), but I don't understand why people would judge a manga as terrible just because of how it might end, and completely disregard the path and labour pains the characters took to get there. Shouldn't that matter more?

I think it's also just as typical that the girl goes with the "other" guy (ie. Peach Girl, and Miwa Ueda is like the queen of cliche!). I've been reading mangas since the early '90s, so it bugs me that readers think that the "girl ending w/ the first guy" = typical shoujo cliche.

SC = / = typical manga

On a somewhat off-topic note, one author who I think sort of straddles the border between shojo and josei is Miki Aihara.

Miki Aihara is pure "Cheese!" shoujo. The sex isn't what makes up josei ><! (Sorry, Cheese! comics are my # 1 enemy) Perhaps you should check out stuff from Iketani Rikako. She writes mostly josei, but has done her share of shoujo (Bito Lolipop, Chiisai Hitsuji wa Yume o Miru)

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by MikiMata

I think that Ann and Daigo will probably end up together, because that is the shojo cliche. I have yet to read a shojo where the first guy the heroine -- well, to put it bluntly, sleeps with -- isn't THE guy for her.

Moe Kare. =)

[MikiMata]

Originally Posted by Nervous Venus

Also, what makes or breaks the manga isn't the cliche, but how that so-called "cliche" is presented and plays out.

Not saying that you are (at least not yet), but I don't understand why people would judge a manga as terrible just because of how it might end, and completely disregard the path and labour pains the characters took to get there. Shouldn't that matter more?

I think it's also just as typical that the girl goes with the "other" guy (ie. Peach Girl, and Miwa Ueda is like the queen of cliche!). I've been reading mangas since the early '90s, so it bugs me that readers think that the "girl ending w/ the first guy" = typical shoujo cliche.

Well, in defense of my theory, Momo didn't sleep with ... his name was Toji , I think (I'm drawing a blank); Ueda made sure to have an explanatory flashback showing that Momo stopped at the last minute, leaving her free to hook up with Kiley. That's why I specifically mentioned sex, since I am familiar with series where the heroine doesn't end up with her "first love." In fact, I mentioned one, Marmalade Boy.

But I didn't mean to sound like I'm critical of Sand Chronicles, or shojo in general, since it is the genre I read the most. I agree with you totally that it's all in the execution. I love High School Debut even though it covers lots of familiar territory. I just get the feeling it will be Daigo in the end, and I would prefer it to be Fuji. So maybe I'm just bitter.

I have no doubt you've read more manga than I have, so I defer to your knowledge. Perhaps there are lots of series where the lead girl "kisses" lot of frogs before finding her prince.

[Guardian Enzo]

Well, my one word review of the ending:

Spoiler for Vol. 8 (Colclusion):

Yuck. Or maybe, more charitably, "Sigh". It was OK (not great mind you, but decent) at the time of the epilogue. The epilogue sunk it to the level of cliche and disappointment - one big "never mind" to everything leading up to it.

I must be honest and say that the entire final volume - the suicide attempt, the sly visit to the school - had the feeling of cheesiness to it. That's a shame because I really, really love this series - but I feel as if it peaked around volume 5-6 and gave in to melodrama and predictability after that. That seems to be a recurring problem with shoujou/josei - Bokura ga Ita comes to mind as well.