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Yazan Gable · 2009-10-20, 15:23

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. While I certainly understand that UC and AD are different universes entirely, I couldn't help but wonder how the V2 Gundam would do against the 00 Raiser. How would minovsky react to GN Particles, in theory? I believe (I am probably wrong) that when 00 Raiser quantize, it reduces itself to separated particles. Would the V2's Wings of Light damage or disrupt the 00 Raiser's particles, or would it just not affect it at all? Would an I-Field function against GN-powered weaponry? Would Minovsky-powered weaponry function against GN-Fields? I ask all this in theory. Hopefully I didn't go to the wrong thread to ask this.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2009-10-20, 16:19

No one could really know for certain BECAUSE of the fact that they're different universes and may (most likely) have completely different physics when it comes to their science.

Even if games show one thing, games aren't canon and simply work for convenience and all without really considering any in-depth "science".

justsomeguy · 2009-10-20, 16:31

Given that neither Minovsky, GN, Mirage Colloid, etc. particles exist in real life, there's no way to tell how they would interact.

In VS, it's usually easier to assume that a beam is a beam is a beam, and that defenses against one type of beam will function similarly against other beams, with differences only in terms of power output in watts.

Yazan Gable · 2009-10-21, 08:50

Any idea in a battle between the V2 Assault Gundam and the 00 Raiser? I'd think Uso's NT abilities would limit the issue of getting surprised by the quantized 00 Raiser. 00 Raiser does have Trans-Am, which would be an obvious issue for the V2. As for 00 Raiser's weaponry, the beam weapons seem to be f'ed by Uso's dual I-Fields and anti-beam coating. Melée would be another problem for the V2.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2009-10-21, 13:30

Assuming that the I-Fields would work and all (haven't seen anything in the anime itself that even shows it has I-Fields though), I still would say that the 00 Raiser would win.

1.) The Victory 2 Assault Gundam is weighed down by its extra armor plating, VSBRs, I-Field Generators, mega beam rifle, and mega beam shield. Against a close-combat (not to mention fast already) monster like the 00 Raiser, it'll most likely have a very hard time. The Victory 2 Assault is meant for, obviously, assault and long-haul battles. Basically using its mega beam rifle and VSBRs to blast away MS and key locations from a distance without moving a WHOLE lot and using its I-Fields, anti-beam coated armor plating, and mega beam shield for defense.

Again, besides stats, I haven't seen anything in the Victory Gundam anime showing that it actually does have any I-Fields. If it does have them then, at the very least, they're probably not THAT much better than the Crossbone Gundam X-3's I-Fields in that they can/should only be activated in short intervals so they don't overheat. (Uso does an awful lot of dodging against beam weapons in the anime too as the Assault and Assault/Buster Gundam.)

2.) Even with Uso's Newtype abilities, that doesn't mean he'll be able to predict AND counter everything. With the speeds the 00 Raiser can reach, it could most likely be able to hit the Victory 2 Assault out of the sheer fact that Uso wouldn't be able to physically react fast enough.

3.) As shown in the anime, getting in close and fighting melee isn't exactly a big problem for NORMAL MS, so for something as strong and fast as the 00 Raiser, it should be quite easy to engage it in melee where most of its defenses would be useless.

Yazan Gable · 2009-10-21, 14:24

The V2 Gundam has the minovsky drive, making it equal in speed to the 00 Raiser. with the Assault equipment, it becomes slower, but not as drastic as say, if he had the Buster equipment installed. He would be slower, but not to the point where he becomes a ragdoll for the 00 Raiser. I'd think that the Wings of Light would deter 00 Raiser, especially since they can slice through any mobile suit (at least it seems to, since its wings are pure minovsky being emanated). We can't also assume the 00 Raiser would immediately be right on top of the V2 Assault, especially with all armaments. While he might not be whizzing around like 00 Raiser, the Raiser wouldn't just rip him apart. The V2 Assault is built like a fortress, with the Mega Beam Shield capable of it's own I-Field, dual sets of I-Fields (If the Byg-Zam's old I-Field is an indication of anything, having two improved I-Field must be brutal)., anti-beam coating on the armor plates, the long range cannons, coupled with the WoL would make it a tad difficult to just knock it around. Now I know that being a NT won't automatically make him untouchable, but he might be able to defend with his WoL easier.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2009-10-21, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yazan Gable

The V2 Gundam has the minovsky drive, making it equal in speed to the 00 Raiser. with the Assault equipment, it becomes slower, but not as drastic as say, if he had the Buster equipment installed. He would be slower, but not to the point where he becomes a ragdoll for the 00 Raiser. I'd think that the Wings of Light would deter 00 Raiser, especially since they can slice through any mobile suit (at least it seems to, since its wings are pure minovsky being emanated).

Still, it does become noticably slower and we never do see the Victory 2 ever go FULL acceleration of 20 Gs as that would most likely kill the pilot, at least one as young as Uso. From what we see in the animation, it's rarely ever going that much faster than your average MS (which would be 4+ Gs of acceleration usually). And I doubt the Wings of Light are that easily manipulated either. We only see slight bending them sometimes and only 1 time of the Victory using them as a full shield (from Katejina's point-blank attack with the Gottrlatan's mega beam cannon at the end). Otherwise, they're usually just straight out in their V-shape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yazan Gable

We can't also assume the 00 Raiser would immediately be right on top of the V2 Assault, especially with all armaments. While he might not be whizzing around like 00 Raiser, the Raiser wouldn't just rip him apart. The V2 Assault is built like a fortress, with the Mega Beam Shield capable of it's own I-Field, dual sets of I-Fields (If the Byg-Zam's old I-Field is an indication of anything, having two improved I-Field must be brutal)., anti-beam coating on the armor plates, the long range cannons, coupled with the WoL would make it a tad difficult to just knock it around. Now I know that being a NT won't automatically make him untouchable, but he might be able to defend with his WoL easier.

And, as I said, we don't know how strong those I-Fields are or if it even truly has them outside of other stats. And the only way they'd be improved is their smaller size. Otherwise, their operation would be exactly the same as any other I-Field used throughout the UC-era.

The mega beam shield is destroyed pretty easily enough too and I doubt it can be constantly kept on either due to power requirements. (Especially when you add on stuff like the 2 Minovsky Drive thrusters, 2 I-Field Generators, mega beam rifle, VSBRs, regular beam rifle, beam pistol, beam sabers, etc, all of which would eat up power with continuous use.)

The anti-beam coated armor plates are hardly that effective either as we see in the anime as 1 beam was able to shatter them pretty easily enough. Maybe against weaker beams, but against the types of beam weapons they have at that point, it's not that much of a deterrant, so something with seemingly stronger beam weapons like the 00-era, they wouldn't be much protection.

The VSBRs may be able to penetrate the GN Field, but I doubt either MS would intentionally stay still to be shot at like that.

Not saying the Victory 2 Assault Gundam would lose instantly or anything, but with the way it and the 00 Raiser are displayed with animation, weaponry, stats, etc, the 00 Raiser just holds the advantage overall. The Victory 2 Assault would just have to try to beat it in a battle of attrition in the end to make the 00 Raiser run out of power, but thanks to stuff like the Trans-Am and all that stuff, the short time is usually more than enough to take out most opponents.

But this is the problem with trying to vs. alternate universe stuff...we truly have no clue how things would interact with eachother and, basically, animation differences, retcons, etc. Not to mention that most of the Gundam AUs have been more about super robot Gundams rather than "realistic" Gundams like the UC-era. (The closest "realistic" AU would be Gundam X probably, though thanks to not using 100% of power, Turn A Gundam was pretty balanced out too.)

Yazan Gable · 2009-10-21, 17:00

You're probably right. The V2 seems to be more suited for ranged combat, when you think of the Buster equipment too. Seeing V2 Gundam in Gundam 00-style animation would be nice, and make it a bit easier to compare the two suits.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2009-10-21, 17:08

Well, only with its support equipment is the Victory 2, like its V-Dash Gundam predecessor with its Overhang Pack, more mid to long-range oriented. Its basic form is, like many of the Gundams before it, more melee-oriented.

The Buster parts are definitely more long-range with its mega beam cannon with some mid-range with its beam spray pod and missiles while the Assault parts are more mid-range with its VSBRs, I-Fields, and mega beam shield with a bit of long range with its mega beam rifle. All of them having the usual vulcans and beam sabers for close-range.

And even if we got UC-era Gundam series' animated with modern animation, unless they made an anime where they actually put the UC and AU Gundams together in a single series somehow, then animation alone still wouldn't really be enough to compare them unless, as said, they are from the same universe. (Games not being reliable.)

Gundam Meister · 2009-10-30, 15:52

AN all out war the Gundam Franchise as a whole that mean from UC CE Turn A AC G Gundam Ano Domini and After War Vs the Entire Macross Franchise

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2009-10-30, 17:27

Well, I don't know much about other super robot franchises, but I'd guess that the Turn A and/or Turn X could simply wipe out everything else just by unleashing their Moonlight Butterfly at 100% power. (Able to cover everything from Earth to Jupiter.)

Dean_the_Young · 2009-10-30, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Well, I don't know much about other super robot franchises, but I'd guess that the Turn A and/or Turn X could simply wipe out everything else just by unleashing their Moonlight Butterfly at 100% power. (Able to cover everything from Earth to Jupiter.)

Devil Gundam would just regenerate, and Love Love Tenkyoken can knock out even absolute-regeneration abilities derived from DG cells.

Rising Dragon · 2009-10-30, 17:32

Hell, the Turn A, Turn X, and Devil Gundam alone could hold off the Macross franchise mecha with their nanotechnology. Whatever doesn't get eliminated by the Moonlight Butterfly would just get assimilated by the Devil Gundam. Same technology for both, after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Devil Gundam would just regenerate, and Love Love Tenkyoken can knock out even absolute-regeneration abilities derived from DG cells.

That's only if the Moonlight Butterfly even works on the Devil Gundam in the first place. Turn A's nanotechnology is based off the DG Cells, after all. And as for the Sekiha Tenkyoken used... well, to be fair, the Devil Gundam did have its life unit removed prior to that.

But this topic is not about the Devil Gundam vs. the Turn A and X, its about all Gundams against all Variable Fighters.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2009-10-30, 20:55

Well, I doubt it's the EXACT same technology. All we know is that the basis SEEMS to be the same simply because of it being "DG" technology.

Assuming the Moonlight Butterfly does work though, the Devil Gundam's regeneration would depend on...

A.) Core Life Unit.
B.) If there's even anything left to regenerate from.

...without a Core Life Unit, as said, it doesn't seem like it'd be able to work and that Core Life Unit would most likely be destroyed when hit the Moonlight Butterfly which would end up enveloping the Devil Gundam as well. Nanomachines being turned to dust...I don't think they'd work anymore after that, lol.

But in terms of everything non-Gundam, as said, the Turn A's and Turn X's Moonlight Butterfly would end up turning any other technology around them (all the way out to Jupiter at 100%) into dust (except for possibly eachother). Doesn't seem like any sort of defensive barriers or shields would work either. x_x

justsomeguy · 2009-10-30, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

But in terms of everything non-Gundam, as said, the Turn A's and Turn X's Moonlight Butterfly would end up turning any other technology around them (all the way out to Jupiter at 100%) into dust (except for possibly eachother). Doesn't seem like any sort of defensive barriers or shields would work either. x_x

In the final episode of Turn A Gundam, the combined I-fields of the Soleil, a FLAT, and Sumos were used to resist the spread of the Moonlight Butterfly. It's simply a matter of pumping enough power into the defenses, though given Turn A and Turn X's power that is no small feat.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2009-10-30, 23:01

And even then, they were barely being able to withstand it, even with all that energy and that was STILL only like, at least in comparison to a 100% Moonlight Butterfly, probably only like...5-10% power (considering a mere 20% was enough to cover up all of Earth)

C.A. · 2009-11-01, 05:22

Entire Macross franchise means everything right?

This means that Gepelnitch will destroy everything and become a Spiritia Blackhole, not even Devil Gundam can stand against it, the Core Life Unit will just be absorbed.

And Gepelnitch can only be defeated by Nekki Basara.

This means that in an all out battle between the 2 franchise, Macross will win.

Hellbore · 2009-11-01, 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.A.

Entire Macross franchise means everything right?

This means that Gepelnitch will destroy everything and become a Spiritia Blackhole, not even Devil Gundam can stand against it, the Core Life Unit will just be absorbed.

And Gepelnitch can only be defeated by Nekki Basara.

This means that in an all out battle between the 2 franchise, Macross will win.

I think they meant Variable Fighters vs Mobile Suits. Bringing in the Protodevilin unbalances the entire thing.

C.A. · 2009-11-01, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellbore

I think they meant Variable Fighters vs Mobile Suits. Bringing in the Protodevilin unbalances the entire thing.

I really think he meant the entire franchise of each. He even specifically point out that all AU Gundams including Turn A to be included, basically all the most broken Gundams.

The Macross equivalent of Devil Gundam is Gepelnitch, so I think its quite fair.

Like the posters above already mentioned, the Valkyries stand no chance against the Turn types and Devil Gundam, probably even the Macross class carriers would be useless.

GN0010 Nosferatu · 2009-11-01, 07:18

Wolverine's adamantium claws, or the Garrazzo's hand saber? Which one would win the durability contest?

2009-10-20, 16:19	Link #1902
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply No one could really know for certain BECAUSE of the fact that they're different universes and may (most likely) have completely different physics when it comes to their science. Even if games show one thing, games aren't canon and simply work for convenience and all without really considering any in-depth "science". __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2009-10-21, 13:30	Link #1905
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Assuming that the I-Fields would work and all (haven't seen anything in the anime itself that even shows it has I-Fields though), I still would say that the 00 Raiser would win. 1.) The Victory 2 Assault Gundam is weighed down by its extra armor plating, VSBRs, I-Field Generators, mega beam rifle, and mega beam shield. Against a close-combat (not to mention fast already) monster like the 00 Raiser, it'll most likely have a very hard time. The Victory 2 Assault is meant for, obviously, assault and long-haul battles. Basically using its mega beam rifle and VSBRs to blast away MS and key locations from a distance without moving a WHOLE lot and using its I-Fields, anti-beam coated armor plating, and mega beam shield for defense. Again, besides stats, I haven't seen anything in the Victory Gundam anime showing that it actually does have any I-Fields. If it does have them then, at the very least, they're probably not THAT much better than the Crossbone Gundam X-3's I-Fields in that they can/should only be activated in short intervals so they don't overheat. (Uso does an awful lot of dodging against beam weapons in the anime too as the Assault and Assault/Buster Gundam.) 2.) Even with Uso's Newtype abilities, that doesn't mean he'll be able to predict AND counter everything. With the speeds the 00 Raiser can reach, it could most likely be able to hit the Victory 2 Assault out of the sheer fact that Uso wouldn't be able to physically react fast enough. 3.) As shown in the anime, getting in close and fighting melee isn't exactly a big problem for NORMAL MS, so for something as strong and fast as the 00 Raiser, it should be quite easy to engage it in melee where most of its defenses would be useless. __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2009-10-21, 17:08	Link #1909
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Well, only with its support equipment is the Victory 2, like its V-Dash Gundam predecessor with its Overhang Pack, more mid to long-range oriented. Its basic form is, like many of the Gundams before it, more melee-oriented. The Buster parts are definitely more long-range with its mega beam cannon with some mid-range with its beam spray pod and missiles while the Assault parts are more mid-range with its VSBRs, I-Fields, and mega beam shield with a bit of long range with its mega beam rifle. All of them having the usual vulcans and beam sabers for close-range. And even if we got UC-era Gundam series' animated with modern animation, unless they made an anime where they actually put the UC and AU Gundams together in a single series somehow, then animation alone still wouldn't really be enough to compare them unless, as said, they are from the same universe. (Games not being reliable.) __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2009-10-30, 15:52	Link #1910
Gundam Meister Setsuna F Seiei Join Date: Oct 2009 Age: 33	AN all out war the Gundam Franchise as a whole that mean from UC CE Turn A AC G Gundam Ano Domini and After War Vs the Entire Macross Franchise __________________

2009-10-30, 17:27	Link #1911
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Well, I don't know much about other super robot franchises, but I'd guess that the Turn A and/or Turn X could simply wipe out everything else just by unleashing their Moonlight Butterfly at 100% power. (Able to cover everything from Earth to Jupiter.) __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2009-10-20, 15:23	Link #1901
Yazan Gable Junior Member Join Date: May 2009	Not sure if this is the right place to ask. While I certainly understand that UC and AD are different universes entirely, I couldn't help but wonder how the V2 Gundam would do against the 00 Raiser. How would minovsky react to GN Particles, in theory? I believe (I am probably wrong) that when 00 Raiser quantize, it reduces itself to separated particles. Would the V2's Wings of Light damage or disrupt the 00 Raiser's particles, or would it just not affect it at all? Would an I-Field function against GN-powered weaponry? Would Minovsky-powered weaponry function against GN-Fields? I ask all this in theory. Hopefully I didn't go to the wrong thread to ask this.

2009-10-20, 16:31	Link #1903
justsomeguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Given that neither Minovsky, GN, Mirage Colloid, etc. particles exist in real life, there's no way to tell how they would interact. In VS, it's usually easier to assume that a beam is a beam is a beam, and that defenses against one type of beam will function similarly against other beams, with differences only in terms of power output in watts.

2009-10-21, 08:50	Link #1904
Yazan Gable Junior Member Join Date: May 2009	Any idea in a battle between the V2 Assault Gundam and the 00 Raiser? I'd think Uso's NT abilities would limit the issue of getting surprised by the quantized 00 Raiser. 00 Raiser does have Trans-Am, which would be an obvious issue for the V2. As for 00 Raiser's weaponry, the beam weapons seem to be f'ed by Uso's dual I-Fields and anti-beam coating. Melée would be another problem for the V2.

2009-10-21, 14:24	Link #1906
Yazan Gable Junior Member Join Date: May 2009	The V2 Gundam has the minovsky drive, making it equal in speed to the 00 Raiser. with the Assault equipment, it becomes slower, but not as drastic as say, if he had the Buster equipment installed. He would be slower, but not to the point where he becomes a ragdoll for the 00 Raiser. I'd think that the Wings of Light would deter 00 Raiser, especially since they can slice through any mobile suit (at least it seems to, since its wings are pure minovsky being emanated). We can't also assume the 00 Raiser would immediately be right on top of the V2 Assault, especially with all armaments. While he might not be whizzing around like 00 Raiser, the Raiser wouldn't just rip him apart. The V2 Assault is built like a fortress, with the Mega Beam Shield capable of it's own I-Field, dual sets of I-Fields (If the Byg-Zam's old I-Field is an indication of anything, having two improved I-Field must be brutal)., anti-beam coating on the armor plates, the long range cannons, coupled with the WoL would make it a tad difficult to just knock it around. Now I know that being a NT won't automatically make him untouchable, but he might be able to defend with his WoL easier.

2009-10-21, 17:00	Link #1908
Yazan Gable Junior Member Join Date: May 2009	You're probably right. The V2 seems to be more suited for ranged combat, when you think of the Buster equipment too. Seeing V2 Gundam in Gundam 00-style animation would be nice, and make it a bit easier to compare the two suits.

2009-10-30, 20:55	Link #1914
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Well, I doubt it's the EXACT same technology. All we know is that the basis SEEMS to be the same simply because of it being "DG" technology. Assuming the Moonlight Butterfly does work though, the Devil Gundam's regeneration would depend on... A.) Core Life Unit. B.) If there's even anything left to regenerate from. ...without a Core Life Unit, as said, it doesn't seem like it'd be able to work and that Core Life Unit would most likely be destroyed when hit the Moonlight Butterfly which would end up enveloping the Devil Gundam as well. Nanomachines being turned to dust...I don't think they'd work anymore after that, lol. But in terms of everything non-Gundam, as said, the Turn A's and Turn X's Moonlight Butterfly would end up turning any other technology around them (all the way out to Jupiter at 100%) into dust (except for possibly eachother). Doesn't seem like any sort of defensive barriers or shields would work either. x_x __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2009-10-30, 23:01	Link #1916
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply And even then, they were barely being able to withstand it, even with all that energy and that was STILL only like, at least in comparison to a 100% Moonlight Butterfly, probably only like...5-10% power (considering a mere 20% was enough to cover up all of Earth) __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2009-11-01, 05:22	Link #1917
C.A. Absolute Haruhist! Artist Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 37	Entire Macross franchise means everything right? This means that Gepelnitch will destroy everything and become a Spiritia Blackhole, not even Devil Gundam can stand against it, the Core Life Unit will just be absorbed. And Gepelnitch can only be defeated by Nekki Basara. This means that in an all out battle between the 2 franchise, Macross will win. __________________ No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often. Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb! I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series. When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama. My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science. Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/

2009-11-01, 07:18	Link #1920
GN0010 Nosferatu Where's the monoeye? Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hargenteen Age: 35	Wolverine's adamantium claws, or the Garrazzo's hand saber? Which one would win the durability contest? Last edited by GN0010 Nosferatu; 2009-11-01 at 08:05.