Gundam 00: A wakening of the Trailblazer - Expectations and Speculation

[Rising Dragon]

Simple. GN-XIIIs get phased out of use in favor of the GN-XIV. The Flags and Enacts will still be used by the military; those are for the grunts, after all. GN-XIVs will be for their elites/exceptional pilots, while the Ekisubo will be for the best of the best. Just like how it always was.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

They should just do away with all non-GNMS, IMO. Compared to performance levels of the the GN-XIII and the late Ahead, they're pretty much useless.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

They should just do away with all non-GNMS, IMO. Compared to performance levels of the the GN-XIII and the late Ahead, they're pretty much useless.

Tell that to Katharon after they helped take down a bunch of GN-Drive mobile suits. Sure, circumstances at the time gave them the chance to do so, but they're not useless. Case in point, Klaus vs. Amy and Enact Landstriker vs. GN-XIII.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Tell that to Katharon after they helped take down a bunch of GN-Drive mobile suits. Sure, circumstances at the time gave them the chance to do so, but they're not useless. Case in point, Klaus vs. Amy and Enact Landstriker vs. GN-XIII.

Didn't he just shoot the head off though?

[Rising Dragon]

Basically. Legit tactic, though, and proof that a non-GN-Drive mobile suit can still do damage to GN-Drive mobile suits.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Basically. Legit tactic, though, and proof that a non-GN-Drive mobile suit can still do damage to GN-Drive mobile suits.

But it's not like a GNMS being able to take on several non-GNMS. Episode 1 of the second season had the Ahead taking on like 3 mobile suits at once.

[Rising Dragon]

Two-on-one, actually, and keep in mind that it was two grunts against one of the best of the best. Not exactly fair.

None of the battles are, really, but its not entirely impossible. The thing is, the Federation will always need those non-GNMS for the bulk of its forces.

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Despite being technologically inferior to GNMS, non-GNMS still have some worth in them. They can be deployed in say, like, terrorist attacks or minor conflicts involving few countries. It will be too financially expensive to send out GNMS in every single conflict.

From what I can see, GNMS are the elite MS, used only for special operations, which in the anime we see were deployed only in important missions (e.g. destroying the Katharon Lezarus space base, against CB, against a coup d'etat faction).

Phasing out the non-GNMS will be purely stupid unless ESF finds a way to reduce the spending on maintenance and production of GNMS. Until then, non-GNMS will continue to maintain the well-being of the ESF member nations.

[Hellbore]

I see it differently. The regular mobile suits are like the national guard, not deployed for most conflicts or used as peacekeepers, while the GN mobile suits are the regular army used at the front, leaving the older suits to mop up and hold ground.

Thinking about it more, didn't we see a Regular Army unit (Sergei's) with a mixture of old and new mobile suits when they were outside Suille? Maybe older MS were being phased out in favour of the GN-XIII

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Hellbore

I see it differently. The regular mobile suits are like the national guard, not deployed for most conflicts or used as peacekeepers, while the GN mobile suits are the regular army used at the front, leaving the older suits to mop up and hold ground.

Thinking about it more, didn't we see a Regular Army unit (Sergei's) with a mixture of old and new mobile suits when they were outside Suille? Maybe older MS were being phased out in favour of the GN-XIII

Ok, so if you take that logic, the GN-XIII will become the mainstay mobile suit of the ESF right?

[Ypocaramel]

Non-GN MS are just fine for garrisoning, peacekeeping and fighting less well-equipped separatist groups. Another advantage is that the infrastructure for them already exists. The GN Tau suits requires a base of some sort to support their drives, and those take time to build. Mobile bases like Sergei's might be highly mobile but they can't be everywhere at once, whereas the ESF controls the entire world and loosely the earth sphere.

The ESF also just doesn't have the quantity of GN suits needed to control the whole world. If the modern USA operates 1,245 F-16s, think of how many are needed to patrol the entire Earth sphere, land and space. The entire A-Laws taskforce sent to hunt down CB, referred to as their main fleet, had only 108 mobile suits (S2Ep22), and even that was wiped out by CB, Kataron and rogue ESF under Kati. I very much doubt that in 4 years the ESF could make enough GN suits to phase out old suits entirely. GN suits are quite necessary for fighting Celestial Being and very useful against a well armed breakaway faction (like Seel before it was nuked), but for the daily task of holding the ESF together and providing security, normal suits will continue to play a critical role.

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Originally Posted by Ypocaramel

Non-GN MS are just fine for garrisoning, peacekeeping and fighting less well-equipped separatist groups. Another advantage is that the infrastructure for them already exists. The GN Tau suits requires a base of some sort to support their drives, and those take time to build. Mobile bases like Sergei's might be highly mobile but they can't be everywhere at once, whereas the ESF controls the entire world and loosely the earth sphere.

The ESF also just doesn't have the quantity of GN suits needed to control the whole world. If the modern USA operates 1,245 F-16s, think of how many are needed to patrol the entire Earth sphere, land and space. The entire A-Laws taskforce sent to hunt down CB, referred to as their main fleet, had only 108 mobile suits (S2Ep22), and even that was wiped out by CB, Kataron and rogue ESF under Kati. I very much doubt that in 4 years the ESF could make enough GN suits to phase out old suits entirely. GN suits are quite necessary for fighting Celestial Being and very useful against a well armed breakaway faction (like Seel before it was nuked), but for the daily task of holding the ESF together and providing security, normal suits will continue to play a critical role.

Finally, someone that agrees mostly with me!

By the way, Suille wasn't nuked, it was shot by a high-energy electron(?) particle beam linked to the Solar Elevator System.

I hope the ESF has made the necessary steps to upgrade the non-GNMS, hopefully even build new ones that are more sophisticated and able to engage in combat, especially with the ever threat of GN-capable enemies.

The Ekisubo was modelled after the Flag right? And it has never been said that it was GN-powered, so it well maybe a mass produced highly-capable non-GNMS.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

By the way, Suille wasn't nuked, it was shot by a high-energy electron(?) particle beam linked to the Solar Elevator System.

Result was still the same. Suille looked like it got hit with a nuke.

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

I hope the ESF has made the necessary steps to upgrade the non-GNMS, hopefully even build new ones that are more sophisticated and able to engage in combat, especially with the ever threat of GN-capable enemies.

They have the capability. They have made GN-Beam weapons that run on their own internal condensers, as we saw with Sergei's Taozi suit. So they have weaponry for them, at least.

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

The Ekisubo was modelled after the Flag right? And it has never been said that it was GN-powered, so it well maybe a mass produced highly-capable non-GNMS.

The Ekisubo was modeled after the Masurao, which in turn was modeled after the Flag. It is supposed to replace the Ahead. Ergo, it is GN-powered.

EDIT: Also, from the lineart shots we saw in the trailer, you can see its GN-Drive in the back.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

Finally, someone that agrees mostly with me!

By the way, Suille wasn't nuked, it was shot by a high-energy electron(?) particle beam linked to the Solar Elevator System.

I hope the ESF has made the necessary steps to upgrade the non-GNMS, hopefully even build new ones that are more sophisticated and able to engage in combat, especially with the ever threat of GN-capable enemies.

The Ekisubo was modelled after the Flag right? And it has never been said that it was GN-powered, so it well maybe a mass produced highly-capable non-GNMS.

It does have a GN Drive, watch the 00 trailer again. The production art shows that the Ekisubo has one on its back.

[Ypocaramel]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

Finally, someone that agrees mostly with me!

By the way, Suille wasn't nuked, it was shot by a high-energy electron(?) particle beam linked to the Solar Elevator System.

I hope the ESF has made the necessary steps to upgrade the non-GNMS, hopefully even build new ones that are more sophisticated and able to engage in combat, especially with the ever threat of GN-capable enemies.

I just said nuke because I was lazy. I actually don't think upgraded general purpose non-GNMS are the route to go, the existing ones are fine now that Kataron is gone. As more GN MS become available I see non-GN MS becoming increasing niche-fied, like the spider elevator defense Tieren. Infantry support, mobile artillery, precision bombing... these are roles that do not require GN drives and could be filled by modifying existing equipment. The GN-powered weapons are interesting, though I wouldn't bother modifying all MS with them because non-GN MS need to be cheap and most of the time conventional weaponry will do. I do see them being issued on a need-to-use basis though, for example, when heavy enemy MS opposition is expected.

The Ekisubo seems to be filling the high performance GN MS role. They need something like that too, since the GN-XIII has so far been ineffective against Gundams.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

And as mentioned before, the problem of dwindling finances crops up again. How exactly is Tieria going to pay for the material to construct GN-Drive[T]s without potentially destabilizing the world's economy?

Who said anything about PAYING for the construction?

The Celestial Being ship is meant to be about to build everything it needs within its internal factories. So money is irrelevant because it doesn't purchase anything from anyone. It is a giant colony ship.

[Rising Dragon]

And you know this how? Because last I checked, we knew next to nothing about the Celestial Being.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Who said anything about PAYING for the construction?

The Celestial Being ship is meant to be about to build everything it needs within its internal factories. So money is irrelevant because it doesn't purchase anything from anyone. It is a giant colony ship.

Money and resources had to come from somewhere to build the CB Ship. Not like it appeared out of nowhere, or made itself. The internal factories didn't make it, they make Innovades and or mobile suits, so on and so forth. But that isn't how it was made.

[Hellbore]

Even then raw materials would be needed to make the mobile suits and Innovades and those would cost money, even though Ribbons probably had no compunctions about manipulating the share market, unlike Our Heroes.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Hellbore

Even then raw materials would be needed to make the mobile suits and Innovades and those would cost money, even though Ribbons probably had no compunctions about manipulating the share market, unlike Our Heroes.

He didn't need to manipulate the market. He had Louise and god knows what else backing A-LAWS, plus by that time, the whole of the Federation's standing forces.