2010-01-23, 18:10 | Link #81 | |
blinded by blood
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2010-01-23, 19:54 | Link #82 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Jose
Age: 36
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Last 2-3 seasons have been pretty bland in the action department although there were some good non-action ones (bakemonogatari etc). Im just waiting for a series to pop up again that makes me anticipate when the subs or even raws are going to come out like TTGL or code geass. Since those 2 I have not really been hooked on a must see series but im sure they will pop up again eventually.
Edit: Now that i think about it Phantom Requiem a season or 2 back had me hooked. |
2010-01-23, 21:44 | Link #83 |
He Without a Title
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The land of tempura
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Like one person said in the thread for the 2009 Choice Awards (sorry, don't remember exactly who) the bubble of anime is bursting. Moe, echii and all those otuku specific stuff has gotten so "normal" that people are getting tired of them and the bad world economy probably aggravated the problem by forcing companies to play it safe and release stuff they knew should work. But this isn't an issue, it's like roriconfan said: it's cyclical, the anime industry has gone through this quite some times already and it just means that the people behind our beloved shows are adapting to a changing audience.
Also I think we need to understand that it's perfectly normal to see people getting scared over 2009's season in particular, just look back at what we through 2007 up to 2009:
I know I missed a lot of stuff but look at that 2007 in particular. It was just impossible to expect the industry to keep that momentum every year, it was an outstanding year and 2008, even if a weaker, still had some very nice shows that managed to lure even more people to the thought that we were in a golden age of anime. We're not, we just had one amazing year and now it's coming back to bite us, we could say that we are in withdrawal since we're still adjusting to life after a that major 2007 boom. So in conclusion: anime isn't dying, it's just stabilizing after a couple of amazing years and possibly beginning a change to a different series of clichés that'll mark the next decade like moe will probably be remembered as marking the current one.
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2010-01-23, 22:00 | Link #84 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Posts like these show that there is a part of the fanbase that, for good or bad reasons, feels that the focus of anime is moving in a direction they do not enjoy. Good point, but do people need to appreciate the big picture? Anime can be in decline for individuals if the the part they are comfortable in or have experienced themselves is no longer in the spotlight. I've spend enough time on forums like Macross World and MAHQ.net to realise that not all fans apreciate the current offering of anime in equal measure. Plenty of those fans, I feel, are well spoken, thought full individuals and know what anime is around. Just because we can find enough interesting material in what is being produced doesn't mean everyone can. |
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2010-01-23, 22:43 | Link #85 | |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Anime cycles. Sure I have less to be excited about this season but I don't think its doomed.
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2010-01-24, 00:02 | Link #86 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Adelaide
Age: 36
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Going by MAL user rankings we see that Baccano is at number 78. This is where it is in comparison to other 2007 anime. All 2007 anime above it are on it. Spoiler for List:
Shows in italics are one I haven't seen. Also from this it can be obviously deduced that high thread post count doesn't necessarily equal high watch rate. Notice where Myself;Yourself is on the list. Here's the full list. http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=bypopularity Edit: Baccano! DVD sales are here http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...92#post1348992 (Thanks to user eggplant) Sales averaged around 3300. Of course Japanese DVD sales has little to do with popularity in English speaking fandom.
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Last edited by Ash Falls Town; 2010-01-24 at 01:00. |
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2010-01-24, 00:39 | Link #88 | ||||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Triple_R: If your sisters are young adults (i.e. high school teens), then personally I don't really see much of a problem with some of the material cited here. But that's just my opinion, seeing how most young adult novels, which I myself read, contain much more risque material. In addition, the Sailor Moon episodes here (US and CN) contain numerous and continuous censoring edits to address the nudity, etc. Anyways, if you really want something mahou shoujo then you should go for: the Pretty Cure franchise, the latest being Fresh Pretty Cure, Nanoha series, or even better: Tweeny Witches 1,2 (Mahou Shoujo Tai Arusu/Alice)
As a side note, interestingly as Ansalem mentioned about one Sailor Moon changes made here "making two of the Sailors 'cousins' so that their implied lesbian relationship seemed sororal.", something similar was done with the dub script in the original Pretty Cure, where "love letter" was changed to "fan letter", thereby removing any implied romance. Quote:
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It's like what animeboy12 mentioned: it's about being dissatisfied about the presence of 'other' stuff that's out there, because if you do look at the bigger picture, I see no decline of non-fanservice-y/non-otaku-y titles at all. The problem is that people think there is are huge swings that the entire industry takes, where one slice of the "anime pie" becomes bigger at the expense of the other, when the reality is that the entire anime pie has gotten bigger so there's more room for everybody. When you look at what sells, for figures and artbooks, yes moe and bishoujo are hot sellers, which definitely helps fuel those genres. BUT when you look at DVD and BD sales, ironically, what people lament about just doesn't pan out. Again, see my previous post |
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2010-01-24, 00:45 | Link #89 | |
Speaker
Join Date: Sep 2009
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The best example I can think of is the American TV show Firefly. When it was on the air, it had horrible ratings and was canceled mid-season with only 14 episodes produced and 11 aired. After its DVD release, it got a massive underground following, enough for it to get a big budget theatrical release. It's currently #1 in sales on Amazon.com for Fantasy and Sci-Fi TV, and in the top 500 for Movies and TV. The post count on AnimeSuki is also more reflective of the popularity when the show aired, because afterward discussion tends to be very light. A new person who's watched a show will come and post their impressions and a person may comment, but that as far as discussion goes, there is relatively little.
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2010-01-24, 01:38 | Link #90 |
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npcomplete... You yourself have indicated on this board, many times, that you have very broad tastes.
That's fine. But that also means that where you're likely to see mountains upon mountains of wonderful animes (due to sheer quantity, in part)... that isn't the same for all of us. You act like the fact that there were 215 anime in 2009 means that there has to be something for everyone. Well, if one has very broad tastes, sure, that's definitely true. But those Macross World posters that Bri was referring to are probably looking for something very specific that's a lot like, well, a particular Macross anime... or a lot like a different particular mecha series that they really liked. And for people with narrower tastes than yourself, even slight deviations can make a world of difference. It is genuinely possible for there to be certain types of shows that are missed out of in 215 anime. In fact, that idea reminds me of the old saying "Hundreds of TV stations, and there's nothing on worth watching". I've heard that quite often from satellite TV owners. Also, you and some others seem to think that equal weight should be given to each and every anime, no matter how prominent or obscure it is. I'm sorry... it just doesn't work that way. Look, people generally like to talk about the shows they watch with other people. That's certainly true of message board posters like us. So, when people talk about anime, of course they're going to focus on the shows that are the most talked about, for good or for ill. Your argument, to me, would be a lot like Roger Ebert arguing that some good obscure art films makes up for a lot of people being displeased with the Summer Blockbuster movies. Yes, Ebert likes those sorts of art films, but if the Summer Blockbusters were unusually subpar, in his view, for the year, he's not going to say that the entire movie industry is saved by obscure art films. He's not going to say that these obscure art films means that the movie industry is A-Ok in spite of movies like Transformers 2 (which Ebert hated quite a bit). Ebert doesn't make arguments like that... because he realizes that the movie industry, like any industry, is mostly shaped (both in its perception and in what it will probably look like in the immediate future) by its most prominent and popular entries. And that's why the popularity of Transformers 2 really does worry him, regardless of whatever else might be available if you dig down deep amongst the full slate of movies for a year. Virtually anybody who does a year in review for movies, or for anime, or for any entertainment medium or genre, are going to focus more on the biggest sellers or the most talked about entries of the year. And if there are popular trends there, then those trends will define the industry, and your average person's perception of it. The thing I want to get across to people here is this... I'm not in this discussion just for my own sake. On a personal enjoyment level, I'm largely content with the anime that's out there. There's some things I wish were there (like a high epic fantasy anime in the Lord of the Rings vein), but there's still good shows to watch. But I've read and heard many, many anime fans (on this board and others - sometimes privately) tell me that they're really sick of the pantsu, or moe (which I myself like... so I'm not bringing it up for my sake), or some other anime convention. The fact that they're all focusing on the same basic issue... I mean, maybe anime could use less pantsu or less of some other anime conventions. Not wiped out completely, but less of it. Let me ask you this... do you really think that a couple more prominent anime, with out otaku-centric tropes to it, would hurt the anime industry? Would be a bad thing? If not, why are you and animeboy and a few others arguing so strenuously against the very idea, as it seems to me? I mean, that's all the other side of the issue is really saying here. That it would be nice to have a couple more talked about animes, in the genres that they like, largely with out otaku-centric tropes. We're not saying that we want to totally rid of anime of any one particular element... just that it would be nice if there was some more prominent anime with out certain elements. If the summer blockblusters , so to speak, were more diverse. Something like Shana could have easily been such an anime if it didn't throw in certain shots near the end of its airing.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2010-01-24 at 02:15. |
2010-01-24, 01:48 | Link #91 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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I just passed by this thread and saw the title. I was confused about it.
What will be the cause of the doom of anime? Lack of anime? Or too much moeblob/pantsu/some other anime convention which hurts the brains of those who want decent anime?
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2010-01-24, 02:00 | Link #93 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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I've read it and I was baffled with the next barrage of posts.
I've also cut out my comment from my last post by mistake. Silly me. My other question is, why do they point out that they want to take away those "sickening" anime conventions that other anime fans are looking for in an anime? Isn't that inconsiderate? No one can't point out how many hate moe and how many like moe very much, but one thing is for certain, anime tries to cater all possible clients as an industry. Complain about the anime lineup for this year or the next and they don't give a damn. And "doom of anime"? That's just as absurd as the topic regarding 12/21/2012 in the General Topic. No offense.
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2010-01-24, 02:19 | Link #94 | ||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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Plus, while I'd be for taking that particular panty shot out, I'd be against removing the slow-motion panty shot in the opening scene of Bakemonogatari or, to give another Full Metal Panic example, the fanservice in the Fumoffu hot springs episode. Both of those examples of fanservice get a big thumbs up from me. Quote:
Eh, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but isn't the correct term here "near the end of its DVD run"? Like I said, the weird bandage outfit made the TV cut but I don't think many of the panty shots did.
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2010-01-24, 02:25 | Link #95 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Triple_R but I'm telling you though, that some of the biggest sellers are also those without pantsu, those non-otaku-y shows, as I've mentioned in my previously. In fact I'll address:
to say that more accurately, otaku buys something of everything. Quote:
What I'm arguing against is that the entire industry, meaning all of anime, has to be certain way in order to be "fixed". These people wrongly perceive a displacement of their beloved anime and so they want a reverse displacement. As I've said before, in terms of there being an anime pie with slices representing various genres and sub-genres, it's NOT that the slice of one genre or trope has somehow overtaken the rest., the accurate picture is that the whole anime pie has gotten bigger, along with buying trends. So I'll reiterate for examples: Spoiler:
Now, whether or not you think some are more prominent than others, or more popular, or more talked about than others, is really a matter of perception I think. And while I can see it as easily being conflated here, the matter of whether the Macross of today is as good as the Macross of before, or Gundam, or any very specific XYZ show within a very specific genre is an entirely different matter than the topic of this thread: "The state of anime, are we doomed?" which specifically mentions the popularity otaku anime killing off other non-otaku anime as the cause of that doom, and that is really what I'm rebutting. |
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2010-01-24, 02:48 | Link #96 | |||
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I'm not saying less of these shows, I'm saying pay more attention to them. Cmon these aren't obscure art films, Canaan, Shikabane Hime, basquash, Tetsuwan Birdy Decode the list goes on.... these high-budget shows that appeal and nab a good portion of the Japanese audience and if people are to blind be the otaku oriented shows to see that well it's there loss. There are a number of different databases and resource to help people know what anime to look out for, they no excuse really, especially if you're posting on this site. Quote:
I we're going seriously have discussion about the decline quality or doomed state of anime, then I wanna see lists, charts, graphs and maybe even some *gasp* analysis , not bitching, especially bitching on the internet. |
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2010-01-24, 02:58 | Link #97 |
So Like A Rose
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Foxglove
Age: 36
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I can't help but wonder if personal preference (or even a liking of the cliche`s) ever plays a role in these odd-year anime apocalypse speculations.
I've been an anime enthusist since 1996: when I saw the Genocyber movies, GITS, Roujin-Z, and others. My interest in anime piqued after seeing Project A-ko and I've found that certain anime of specific genres appeal to me more than others (action girl, harem, cyberpunk). I got into Tenchi & Slayers through-out the 90's and then reached a sort of "moot point" or gray area through 2000 - 2002. I found titles like Gundam Wing, and Outlaw Star to be pretty good (note I'm going with the NA "current" anime not JP "current") while others like Rurouni Kenshin, Blue Gender, & Trigun were all getting sparkling reviews from my peers I didn't find them too interesting. I'll be honest in that I never sat down & seriously watched any of them but if I had I may ended up liking them (like how I got into Bleach & One Piece) . I have found that I am particularly fond of vintage or "old" anime, specifically from 70's to the early 90's. I enjoy watching Lupin, Ginga Nagareboshi Gin was excellent, and Slam Dunk just had something mystical about it that intrigues me. I don't know if those anime in particular contain some kind cliche or genre that my subconscious recognized as "good", or are just fun to watch (both are probably correct ), but I know that I liked them regardless of whatever kind of reviews or criticism they got or if my peers held them in high regard or despite what typical anime stereotypes I knew of (i.e. cyberpunk, harem, post-apocalptic future, kung-fu, schoolgirl, etc.) I didn't give two squats about Naruto until I went out & bought the first uncut box set... which is one way I got into a new series. as for 2009/2010 I've started watching more anime online (JP current): Shippuuden, FMA Brotherhood, and have even started watching titles that I usually don't (Moribito) mainly out of boredom but also because they are entertaining. What I think it all boils down to is personal preference, I can remember people for years raving about "Neon Genesis Evangelion" and I didn't think much of it. What it comes down to is either you like it or don't. I will admit though that alot more classic anime had a jene se quoi that many lack today, but again i'm biased since I favor the vintage variety anyway.
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Last edited by Sakuranbo; 2010-01-24 at 03:12. |
2010-01-24, 05:52 | Link #98 | |
Banned
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Spoiler for mindfrakk:
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2010-01-24, 06:09 | Link #99 | |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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You point to myanimelist, well look at the episode discussion threads on that forum. http://myanimelist.net/anime/2251/Baccano!/forum Now compare that to Myself Yourself http://myanimelist.net/anime/2926/My...Yourself/forum Baccano! being licensed greatly inflates its figures on sites like MAL and ANN in "watched" totals, doesn't change my point it was ignored by the majority while it aired. When people whine about anime sucking compared to the good old days and ignore shows like Baccano! and Mononoke (wait maybe this is mainstream too now?) they need to slap themselves. As for Dhurarara!!, quite a few factors in why it's more popular while airing on forums like this. 1. Baccano built itself an audience over time and this is the closest thing we'll get to a sequel since its from the same author and animation team. You instantly bring in that fanbase who're craving for more, I see a lot of "Even if it's half as good as Baccano! it's going to be worth watching comments". 2. It's airing in a minor Winter season compared to Baccano! airing in major Spring Season, it's a big fish in a small pond. 3. It's aimed at the females more than Baccano! was. Last edited by Westlo; 2010-01-24 at 06:20. |
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2010-01-24, 07:03 | Link #100 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Um just to tell everyone again...............
There has been a big decline in long running series.(50+ eps kind of anime) Any idea why is this so?This trend has been going on for at least a while already.This might be a sign related to the topic. |
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