What happened to patience?

[LytHka]

Originally Posted by getfresh

speed subbing is retarded
picking up a series in the middle is pathetic
both the above are nothing but famesubbing to me

Famesubbing: With Naruto I think no speedsubbing group can achieve fame.

Let's say ..... a NEW NARUTO GROUP IS BORN. z0mg! And they release ep 97 in 6 hours after airing. OMG! Everyone rushes to their channel or their BT and come up with a comment or two: "We love you <insert name of Naruto speedsubbing group here>!"

Next week: omg, another NEW NARUTO GROUP IS BORN. z0mfg! Release time: 4 hours before airing!

What happened to the previous speedsubbers? Most likely they were forgotten and their name is now just a nuisance to AnimeSuki's admins while they need to delete it from their group database or just leave it there and make the group's list longer for no good reason. ADV has my thumbs up for licensing Naruto.

[Kidd]

I agree that subbing Naruto really isn't a good path to get famous (whether speedsubbing or not). If anyone chose to pick up Naruto just because they wanted to get famous, I feel kinda sorry for them since I doubt they will get very famous from it. In fact most other groups frown upon "humpf, yet another Naruto group" and think of the group as crap as soon as they even hear about them for some reason, so no, if one wants to get famous, then it's not really the smartest thing to do.

Picking up a new series however, especially if it's a good one, will make them heroes. So if anyone who wants instant fame is reading this... go watch millions of raws, try to find some really cool show that hasn't been subbed by -anyone- yet, and sub that. You'll have thousands of fans, instantly ^_~x Not to mention, great respect from other subbers...

[Elepsis]

Originally Posted by Kidd

Picking up a new series however, especially if it's a good one, will make them heroes. So if anyone who wants instant fame is reading this... go watch millions of raws, try to find some really cool show that hasn't been subbed by -anyone- yet, and sub that. You'll have thousands of fans, instantly ^_~x Not to mention, great respect from other subbers...

Respect from subbers? Perhaps, at least if you do a good job. Instant fame? Hah. It's clear you haven't had the experience of subbing a "lesser-known" show, where even 500 downloads are surprising... :P

[hunterx]

patience is overrated. they are so many lazy groups nowadays. Last year shows got subbed before the next episode even aired and in good quality too. Now, so many groups are lagging and the quality is still shit. Even more proof that patience does not mean quality.

[Spyre]

Originally Posted by hunterx

patience is overrated. they are so many lazy groups nowadays. Last year shows got subbed before the next episode even aired and in good quality too. Now, so many groups are lagging and the quality is still shit. Even more proof that patience does not mean quality.

ahahahhahaha

The lazy leech is calling all the fansubbers lazy. Good job man, you're exactly what this whole thread is dedicated to.

[LordBrian]

Originally Posted by LytHka

ADV has my thumbs up for licensing Naruto.

Why, to save the AnimeSuki database maintainer(s) some time and effort? Because it certainly won't reduce the overall number of subbers any. For every "legit" group that drops it, I wouldn't be surprised if three more popped up in their places.

[LytHka]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

Why, to save the AnimeSuki database maintainer(s) some time and effort? Because it certainly won't reduce the overall number of subbers any. For every "legit" group that drops it, I wouldn't be surprised if three more popped up in their places.

No, I'd just really like to see some Narutards do suicides. j/k btw.


Though I do love tragedy. There will always be Naruto groups. Sad fact.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

Why, to save the AnimeSuki database maintainer(s) some time and effort? Because it certainly won't reduce the overall number of subbers any. For every "legit" group that drops it, I wouldn't be surprised if three more popped up in their places.

True enough. We'll probably have three times as many groups subbing this show after it is licensed. On the other hand I admit that I will be glad to stop having to care about all the short lived famesubbers who pop up every week. Mostly though I'll be glad to be done with all the Naruto fans that complain about how long it has been since the previous episode. It'll be nice to just drop those threads into the Licensed Anime Graveyard.

[chibikit]

Originally Posted by wraith985

I honestly don't think it's a 'funny' conclusion. Regardless of what you say it is, it seems very fishy to me that a group of fansubbing newbies would just happen to take on the most popular project in current existence and jump in.

You say that you love the show, but why does that have any bearing on whether or not you sub it? ANBU/Aone had been doing a perfectly good job and had never really lagged behind, but you somehow decided that you wanted to sub this particular show when you formed, and not some other show? I don't think love of a show that had already been released at a weekly pace for a year or so really covers the reasons for that choice.

You say that download statistics don't mean anything to you, but I really don't see another reason that you wouldn't sub from episode 1. You say you plan on subbing those later - when? After the series is done? You say finding raws is hard - how? If people can find raws of shows that are literally decades old, then it's comparatively much easier to find the raw of a show that started airing 92 weeks ago. For all your love of the show, I also find it hard to believe that you won't buy DVDs and make the most HQ version out there, for yourselves if not for everyone else. Maybe you're waiting for dvdrips to appear on the internet? Maybe you should amend that statement to "love of the show, so long as it's free".

I freely admit that download statistics mean something to me - not much, but something. It makes me feel appreciated. Even if it's not the entire reason, just admit that it was part of the reason.

I commit a grave sin by not bothering to read the rest of the thread before replying, but since it's been revolving around this for a whole page and more (the post quoted is from the middle of page two) so far with no perceptible change, I decided to reply.

Anime-Kingdom did the same thing with Gundam SEED. We didn't bother subbing from the beginning (we started at, what was it, 35 or something... it's been so long I can't remember now). The rest had already been done and done pretty well (with perhaps the exception of the now-defunct Animejunkies and their odd grammar). We loved the series so much that we wanted to know what happened next, and we knew everyone else wanted to know too. By the arguments being thrown about in the thread, that meant we were gunning for popularity. Were we?

No.

All we wanted was to know what happened next. We, the original five crewmembers, could've just decided to do it amongst ourselves, but that felt rather selfish. We didn't really care if other groups released before us and got more downloads (we had a habit of doing double and triple releases on a rather regular basis owing to crewmembers' real-life activities), even when we did Fumoffu.

I think that Shin-Otaku started subbing Naruto where they did for the same reason we started SEED where we did. It's just a guess - I'm no member of the group - but I think on an at least subconscious level all Shin-Otaku wanted is to know what happens next. They shouldn't be crucified for that; it's something all fans of a show want.

[EDIT]Someone said on a more recent post that picking up a series in the middle is just famesubbing. As I pointed out, it not always is. Don't be so quick to judge by your elitist standards.[/EDIT]

Now back to whatever was being talked about in the previous post.

[LordBrian]

You truly must have been doing it for love. It truly takes dedication to work on a licensed series and then having the selflessness to release it to the public, regardless of whatever legal risks you may incur.

Because it would be selfish to keep the releases internal.

Right.

[ChoBaka]

Originally Posted by Elepsis

Respect from subbers? Perhaps, at least if you do a good job. Instant fame? Hah. It's clear you haven't had the experience of subbing a "lesser-known" show, where even 500 downloads are surprising... :P

I get the impression that you believe having a smaller number of downloads for a show you release is some kind of badge/medal of honor. Honestly, why does it matter if someone subs a show that gets 100,000 downloads or 500? It should matter that much less to you, of all people, because that is what you preach in many of your posts. And yet you yourself talk of these numbers, which shows you DO care.

[chibikit]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

You truly must have been doing it for love. It truly takes dedication to work on a licensed series and then having the selflessness to release it to the public, regardless of whatever legal risks you may incur.

Because it would be selfish to keep the releases internal.

Right.

Ignoring the obvious sarcasm, yes, it would be rather selfish. If I wanted to know what happens next in a series so much I'm willing to participate in a fansub group, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that there will be others who also want to know the same thing. It's simple logic.

That we released it doesn't mean that our original motivation of wanting to know for ouselves is made somehow invalid. We fulfilled that and felt "Oh, that was really nice; maybe other people might want to know too." I think that's one of the underlying motivations (besides bringing awarentess of anime to where they live) for a lot of the original fansubbers (though they'd be crying bloody murder at the thought of a digisub outfit professing to have the same motivation).

Maybe it's something that goes against capitalistic principles. It's a very communist idea, I admit, but not everything communist was bad and not everything capitalist is good. :P

[boneyjellyfish]

Now, I'm going to have to disagree with most of you here. Don't throw the rotten fruit at me just yet; hear me out. Now, in order for me to argue my point, I need to establish something. You see, there are really two kinds of fame: infamy and the fame many of you are aspiring to gain. Infamy is the kind of fame where many people know you, but you're really only known for something bad happening. Fame, which I'm sure many subbers want despite their mission statements, is nothing more than public recognition. There, I've gotten that out of the way.

There are many groups that will go down in infamy for a long, long time. Animechi is one such group. Now, I don't want to revive any discussions about that group, I just used it for an example. Another group that is infamous is AnimeJunkies. AnimeJunkies was known for fansubbing everything, even things that didn't have many leechers (Ultra Maniac, Gravion, and Kino no Tabi anyone?), but they were also synonymous for low ethical standards, low quality releases, and mass naked child events. Now, once again, I don't want to revive any discussions about AnimeJunkies. I mean, it's been dead for about 8 months now. No use beating a dead horse. I'm just using it as an example.

Shows with a low number of leechers is a direct measure of their fame. I hate to say it, but only the people that watched a lesser-known (GOOD!!) show will recognize which group subbed it, and again, if it was a good show, the fansub group will be praised all over the place by the people that watched it. My Love Love subs get about 300 leechers at one time, max. After a week or two, I reach about 1500 downloads complete. However, the only people that will contribute to my fame are the people that not only watched it but also enjoyed it. Perhaps some people will know of my subs because it's on my website or because it's in my signature, but they won't give a damn about it. I also won't get a whole lot of respect from fansubbers, either. Not only do I completely wreck the japanese language their translators work hard to make sense of for English audiences but the show STINKS! Don't give me any of this crap about being famous by subbing lesser-known shows. That's a dumb generalization that shouldn't have been made.

Then, of course, there are groups like ANBU that might have around 8000+ leechers for a steady day. The joint group was known by all leechers as having the highest quality releases of all Naruto speedsubbers. I'm sure a lot of people that don't watch Naruto even knew about the joint group. The other Naruto speedsubbers have reached a rather high level of fame as well. BakaSan, one of the earliest "mega speedsubbers", a guy that released even earlier than Thursday night (the joint group's release schedule around that time), achieved a level of fame among the Naruto watchers than has gone unrivalled. Though perhaps he too will only be known among Naruto watchers, there are a lot more people that know his name than people that know the group that did something like Mama is a 4th Grader. Even Shin-Otaku's fame, though in the form of infamy, has spread to many people because of their dabblings in Soukyuu no Fafner.

Don't fall under some illusion that subbing some unknown show makes you famous. If anything, groups that do shows with little support will probably collapse after a short time passes because of the overwhelming lack of support for the show and lack of volunteers to help sub it. Sure, there are some groups like Live-eviL that have become famous because of subbing lesser-known shows, but that's because they do a LOT of lesser-known shows. Though their individual releases may not gather a large amount of leechers, the fans from all of those shows combined gives them a big fanbase. What's more, a lot of the fans from one lesser-known show might download other shows from the same group because they are known to these people as doing subs that are great quality for shows that are also excellent. However, this is only because Live-eviL subs a lot of shows. That's how AnimeJunkies and Anime-Keep became well known too; they simply did a lot of shows. More shows means more fans. More fans means higher popularity. Higher popularity means more fame, whether it be the good or the bad.

[Kyusaku]

Originally Posted by boneyjellyfish

Another group that is infamous is AnimeJunkies. AnimeJunkies was known for fansubbing everything, even things that didn't have many leechers (Ultra Maniac, Gravion, and Kino no Tabi anyone?), but they were also synonymous for low ethical standards, low quality releases, and mass naked child events. Now, once again, I don't want to revive any discussions about AnimeJunkies. I mean, it's been dead for about 8 months now. No use beating a dead horse. I'm just using it as an example.

I'll have to sort of disagree with that especially how distrobution works now. As you've noted there are thousands of anonymous leechers out there now, thanks to Bittorrent. However many of them are COMPLETE dunces when it comes to fansubbing and couldn't tell a good one from a bad one if it smacked them in the face. And if they only pay attention to torrent files, the less and less they really know about a certain group and becomes harder to know if they're really infamous or famous. People in the right fansubbing circles and those who pay attention to forums or talk on IRC can figure out and will learn a group's infamy, but what about those anonymous BT leechers?

[LordBrian]

Originally Posted by chibikit

Ignoring the obvious sarcasm, yes, it would be rather selfish. If I wanted to know what happens next in a series so much I'm willing to participate in a fansub group, I'd say it's pretty safe to say that there will be others who also want to know the same thing. It's simple logic.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be selfish. I'm arguing that using this as a justification for releasing a licensed show is extremely lame.

[LytHka]

Ok, from what I've gathered from this topic's posts I can now quickly form into a based whole.

Four ways to get famous, infamous or just well known:

-Be a speedsubber or release Naruto as fast as possible such as groups like kcl's burning slaves or Anime-Heaven. They are doing it strictly to get it subbed as fast as possible, not much considering the quality of their releases.

-Be controversial. Using just as an example (as said before, not beating an old dog): ANBUdom has his infamous leader starduck, well-known for his acts out of prejudices against the French and others (and that was *believed* to be the reason of ANBU/AonE joint split not very long ago). The group certainly attracted lots of attention amongst forum and IRC users.

-Release quality-based shows. Groups like Triad or Ideology are certainly enjoying lots of reputation from fansubbers everywhere.

-Do lots of shows. Anime-Keep and former AnimeJunkies as examples.

Finding the right combination of these makes you a winner and a quality recognized fansubber. So far AnimeONE is trying to keep that combo going.

If anyone wants to add any more ways to get well-known, popular, they're all welcomed to do so.

[boneyjellyfish]

Originally Posted by Kyusaku

I'll have to sort of disagree with that especially how distrobution works now. As you've noted there are thousands of anonymous leechers out there now, thanks to Bittorrent. However many of them are COMPLETE dunces when it comes to fansubbing and couldn't tell a good one from a bad one if it smacked them in the face. And if they only pay attention to torrent files, the less and less they really know about a certain group and becomes harder to know if they're really infamous or famous. People in the right fansubbing circles and those who pay attention to forums or talk on IRC can figure out and will learn a group's infamy, but what about those anonymous BT leechers?

What does it matter whether the group they're downloading from is high quality or not? As you've said, they only pay attention to the filenames. I think they're smart enough to at least be able to read the group tag. If they read the group's tag, that's one more person that knows about the group. It doesn't matter if the user ditches the group the next week. The public still knows about them.

[DekaMaster]

Originally Posted by Kyusaku

I'll have to sort of disagree with that especially how distrobution works now. As you've noted there are thousands of anonymous leechers out there now, thanks to Bittorrent. However many of them are COMPLETE dunces when it comes to fansubbing and couldn't tell a good one from a bad one if it smacked them in the face. And if they only pay attention to torrent files, the less and less they really know about a certain group and becomes harder to know if they're really infamous or famous. People in the right fansubbing circles and those who pay attention to forums or talk on IRC can figure out and will learn a group's infamy, but what about those anonymous BT leechers?

Who are you to dictate to the downloaders? You yourself have stated you have "no need for fansubbing". People will download what they want and or like. For you to insult them for their choice is low. If they get a "bad" fansub then they will either learn and move on or just not download again. And who cares how infamous or famous a group is? People download what they like. You sound like one of those people that think only certain kinds of fans are good enough for fansubs.

[FinFangFoom]

Crap, I don't have much to say, but I wasted to much time reading this thread to not say something......

First of all, what's with the calling Naruto fans names? Personally I know 6 people irl that love the show. None of them live and breath the show, im certainly the only one who has ever posted on an internet forum. And mostly they just watch whatever version I have burned to a cd. It's obvious that Naruto is extremely popular in both Japan and abroad, even if it's only released in Japan. The people making the stupid post whinning about speed at best could only represent less than 1% of the fanbase.

And as far as the term FAMESUBBER. That's one of the stupidest things ive heard in a while. How the hell can you be famous? It doesnt matter how many people watch your version, they still have NO idea who you are. It's like the idiot at my work that brags about how many girls in the massive online RPG he plays love him and always wanna adventure with him. If you care about online fame it's because nobody in RL would ever give you the time of day.

[monir]

Originally Posted by LytHka

-Be a speedsubber or release Naruto as fast as possible such as groups like kcl's burning slaves or Anime-Heaven. They are doing it strictly to get it subbed as fast as possible, not much considering the quality of their releases.

What are the aspects deriving to the consideration-of-a-quality-release?

-Be controversial. Using just as an example (as said before, not beating an old dog): ANBUdom has his infamous leader starduck, well-known for his acts out of prejudices against the French and others (and that was *believed* to be the reason of ANBU/AonE joint split not very long ago). The group certainly attracted lots of attention amongst forum and IRC users.

I was under the impression that Anbu got their fame actually by doing "good work."

-Release quality-based shows. Groups like Triad or Ideology are certainly enjoying lots of reputation from fansubbers everywhere.

Again, what is considered a quality-based shows?