Employment Situation in the US: How bad is it really?

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Bull @ master's degree. I'm about to get mine in statistics and...well...ugh.

Basically...if you can program a computer and have US citizenship, the market is yours right now.

As for PhDs, are you kidding me...

No, I mean are you f***ing kidding me? Know how many AMAZING positions you can get with a PhD?

One word: GOOGLE.

There's a PhD in just about every subject. PhD in literature, sciences of all sorts, math, medicine, arts, history, etc etc etc... Pick your poison.

Going to school is almost like playing Russian Roulette right now. You don't know if you can actually find work until you've finished and started looking for work.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

There's a PhD in just about every subject. PhD in literature, sciences of all sorts, math, medicine, arts, history, etc etc etc... Pick your poison.

Going to school is almost like playing Russian Roulette right now. You don't know if you can actually find work until you've finished and started looking for work.

This is pretty much the reason why it is best to study "what you like" rather than "what can give you lotsa money".

Given how capitalism exploits workers by favouring production costs exclusive of ethical incentives, if you are in a mediocre paying job, at least you will be doing what you like.

A few days ago while doing my management assignment, I came across this interesting article :

Money Is Not The Best Motivator

But the abovementioned probably has little to do with the lack of unfilled jobs in the US right now.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

This is pretty much the reason why it is best to study "what you like" rather than "what can give you lotsa money".

Given how capitalism exploits workers by favouring production costs exclusive of ethical incentives, if you are in a mediocre paying job, at least you will be doing what you like.

A few days ago while doing my management assignment, I came across this interesting article :

Money Is Not The Best Motivator

But the abovementioned probably has little to do with the lack of unfilled jobs in the US right now.

Greed as a prime motivator is common enough to be a cliche but not entirely true. It varies from person to person but there are clearly other things that can motivate people more than simple greed for something.

Pure monetary capitalism has already reared it's ugly head so may times before and I think the general public even in third world countries like mine have learned enough to judge companies that are purely for profit and lacking any sense of ethics and corporate social responsibility.

And speaking of employment it might be a good thing that considering that commercial nature of the US economic fallout that has also affected other nations, it hasn't affected as much economies that are still driven by manufacturing, raw materials, agriculture and services. The basic of the basics so to speak. I guess one of the reasons why I've always preferred the services field such as my impending medical degree. In the end people will always need basic services such as medicine no matter the state of the economy.

[LynnieS]

The real unemployment number/percentage in the U.S. is probably something like 18% or so at the moment, I think. It was roughly 16% 2-3 months ago, and as far as I know, the employment situation has not improved. I'm sure, however, that there are still pockets of growth (either in geographical area or industry), but the usual standouts like NY, FL and CA had not been in the list. It is highly unlikely, unfortunately, that the situation will improve even though things do look better now. A jobless recovery looks more likely to happen, which would hit everyone not employed - i.e., new graduates and out-of-work-but-looking people.

There are jobs out there, though, but I see the keys being:
- Skills and experience matching (if not exceeding) the job's requirements
- Presentation - i.e., personal looks and dress + in writing + in face-to-face interviews
- Documents (not just in any professional certification but also in the work visa)
- A willingness to relocate

The 4th is less important, but can swing the decision over in your favor if there are other - but less qualified - candidates already nearby.

The best chance, IMHO, comes from networking and personal influence. I'm sorry to say this, but at the moment, it's not just (1) what you know, but also (2) who you know and (3) how well and fast you prove yourself.

There are also areas/industries that are vulnerable to outsourcing. IT and manufacturing jobs have been moving overseas for years, and fields like accounting, record keeping and so on were in progress also. I wouldn't be surprised to see fields like medicine and law go the same way; even if not, whether the demand for these fields in a geographic area can support the supply of eligible people is still pretty much an unknown.

[HayashiTakara]

The two major problems I face with when trying to get work is.

1- Underqualified. (i.e. no related work experience)
2- Overqualified. (i.e. no one wants to hire someone with a BFA and a A.S. to do a mediocre paying job)

[LynnieS]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

The two major problems I face with when trying to get work is.

1- Underqualified. (i.e. no related work experience)
2- Overqualified. (i.e. no one wants to hire someone with a BFA and a A.S. to do a mediocre paying job)

Unfortunately, that is why I put "skills and experience" as #1. When times are bad, companies tend to be very focused in who they hire; I'm used to seeing the same JD being listed and re-listed as the hiring manager figures out his "ideal" candidate.

One job that I had heard about in Tokyo was opened back in December 2008, closed in January/February 2009, re-opened in July 2009 and finally filled in January 2010. During the July to January period, that posting got changed on an almost daily basis, according to one recruiter I know. Another recruiter who knew of the role stopped sending people to it since they never got anywhere. Eventually, it was filled by someone the hiring manager knows, and before that guy could start, the hiring manager blocked everyone else from being considered. And the hiring manager wasn't the company's president or even anything near that level of seniority.

In the end and for the time being, they - and not you - are in the driver's seat. You'll have to play by their rules for now until things do start to improve more. It's sad, but IMHO, (1) having a set of good friends to support one another, (2) being willing to keep trying and (3) keeping your perspective all help.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by IcExAlcHeMy

the answer is the employment rate in the u.s. is not improving AT ALL. obama has created negative 36 million jobs (sarcasm) over the health care bill he has been trying to pass since the moment he became president. i remember on CNN saying that he will try to create more jobs this year, but from what i've seen, that is far off from what he is currently doing. he has created about 162,000 jobs in the last two months, but that doesn't cover the MILLIONS that lost their jobs.

Well, people voted Bush and saw billions of $ being trown around in some remote part of the world
Dollars that Obama could have used right about now for his own people

...but nah just forget that and convince yourself that it's all Obama's fault!

Originally Posted by Vexx

The *official* unemployment rate in the US fails to track...

...the insidious UNDERemployment (was designing software but now in sweatshop call center via a temp contract).

In the end it's about putting food on the table, and a heartsurgeon working at Mcdonalds still puts more food on the table like that than sitting at home being part of the registrated % of unemployed
He's got a job, a lot of people don't, black/white thinking, but in this case justified

Even (long) before the crisis, a lot of people were in jobs below (or nowhere near) their level of education
Sectors already swamped with applications, or those that saw a decrease in demand

Since everybody wants to be a succesfull businessman, they all choose an education in that direction, but no one ever bothers to think that we only need 'so much' businessmen
they just go to school for it, then demand a job,... sorry doesn't work that way

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

2- Overqualified. (i.e. no one wants to hire someone with a BFA and a A.S. to do a mediocre paying job)

This is the biggest problem for my dad right now. He's headed two major projects and shaped a whole business, but because of that, everyone he goes to is afraid to hire him because he's got so much credit to his name. They feel they wouldn't be able to pay him enough and hold onto him long enough, so they just dismiss him completely.

[HayashiTakara]

It's extremely difficult to land a job that you are perfectly suited for. Currently I'm qualified for an entry level professional art position, but unfortunately every position that is available is only looking for senior level artist (5+ years of professional experience). So I'm SOL on it until I'm lucky enough to snatch up the once a year posting for such a position.

Right now I'm doing what I can to get by, commission work, tutoring, and currently my office administration job which pays crap but it's a job to pays at least. It sucks to do stuff like this, it's rather depressing and a big de-motivator.

[Skirata]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

Well, people voted Bush and saw billions of $ being trown around in some remote part of the world
Dollars that Obama could have used right about now for his own people

...but nah just forget that and convince yourself that it's all Obama's fault!

I know some people who trace this problem all the way back to the first Bush and Clinton...


Bush may have thrown billions around, but Obama is throwing trillions...

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Skirata

I know some people who trace this problem all the way back to the first Bush and Clinton...


Bush may have thrown billions around, but Obama is throwing trillions...

Its always much more expensive to fix a disaster than to have avoided it in the first place. Basic engineering 101.

@Nightbat: true, any employment is better than none.. but there's a huge waste in training for a society that creates professionals and trained craftsmen and then fails to use them in that capacity. The US has essentially no infrastructure in place to retrain work forces for either new requirements or new opportunities. People needing retraining are usually in no place to fork out $20K-$200K to be retrained (never mind that many of them are still paying off the FIRST training period). Put them in a 40hr/wk min.wage job and now they have no *time* left and are negative cash flow even after massacring assets.

[Skirata]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Its always much more expensive to fix a disaster than to have avoided it in the first place. Basic engineering 101.

That's why I steer clear from problems.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

...
Going to school is almost like playing Russian Roulette right now. You don't know if you can actually find work until you've finished and started looking for work.

I can hardly believe that. Imo most of the time it is just utter disinterest in the job market that leads to graduates not finding employment.
I am not sure how it is in the USA, but where I live many people go for either the stuff that is easy to learn, is of special interest to them (but otherwise useless in most employment situations) or is just a perceived to be a good field to graduate in because media makes you think so without being so fantastic in reality (like all the economics related stuff... the problem is, that a few in these sectors really earn good money, but I beg to question if their university degree really helped them get the job or rather other circumstances... in most cases the graduates oversaturate the job market and wonder why, for example, there is no need for hundreds of thousands of top management positions)

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

It's extremely difficult to land a job that you are perfectly suited for. Currently I'm qualified for an entry level professional art position, but unfortunately every position that is available is only looking for senior level artist (5+ years of professional experience). So I'm SOL on it until I'm lucky enough to snatch up the once a year posting for such a position.

Right now I'm doing what I can to get by, commission work, tutoring, and currently my office administration job which pays crap but it's a job to pays at least. It sucks to do stuff like this, it's rather depressing and a big de-motivator.

I feel ya there. Retail and clerical/administrative assistant positions are all that seem to be 'not dead'. Lost my job at a grocery store in August of last year, polishing up my resume, applying left and right, and not even getting callbacks. I'm getting my BS in the Fall, and I already have an AA in Art and a certificate in Computer Graphics/Animation. QA jobs are swallowed up almost immediately, and the good jobs have ridiculous requirements like 2-3 AAA game titles.

The good thing about the faculty is that they do mass email students on job/internship opportunities (I did one a year back), but it only does so much (and pretty much all of them are unpaid). I'm thinking of continuing to get my Masters, but I'd like to be able to start work as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by Skirata

That's why I steer clear from problems.

Unfortunately, much as he might want to, he can't do that.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Jinto

I can hardly believe that. Imo most of the time it is just utter disinterest in the job market that leads to graduates not finding employment.
I am not sure how it is in the USA, but where I live many people go for either the stuff that is easy to learn, is of special interest to them (but otherwise useless in most employment situations) or is just a perceived to be a good field to graduate in because media makes you think so without being so fantastic in reality (like all the economics related stuff... the problem is, that a few in these sectors really earn good money, but I beg to question if their university degree really helped them get the job or rather other circumstances... in most cases the graduates oversaturate the job market and wonder why, for example, there is no need for hundreds of thousands of top management positions)

Be happy you're where you are at. In the US, the job sectors for graduates is plummeting. You enter a major and you have very little security that the job sectors for that major are going to exist by the time you exit college with a $10K-$100K college loan to pay off. There's a *few* nearly sure things... pharmacy, for example. But most professional/science/business degrees are real crap shoots in the US now, and with the cost of a degree around $60K-$100K its tough to go with the "cultural enrichment and self improvement" theory.

Making it even worse, high school degrees are utterly worthless. Trade schools and certification schools have some value but they're "this year's fad" in terms of teaching you skills that can evolve (they want you back for the next fad certification).

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Be happy you're where you are at. In the US, the job sectors for graduates is plummeting. You enter a major and you have very little security that the job sectors for that major are going to exist by the time you exit college with a $10K-$100K college loan to pay off. There's a *few* nearly sure things... pharmacy, for example. But most professional/science/business degrees are real crap shoots in the US now, and with the cost of a degree around $60K-$100K its tough to go with the "cultural enrichment and self improvement" theory.

Making it even worse, high school degrees are utterly worthless. Trade schools and certification schools have some value but they're "this year's fad" in terms of teaching you skills that can evolve (they want you back for the next fad certification).

i major in genetic in college (albeit i wasn't very good)

i am now a insurance agent

my only advice is take any kind of work you can get. after college i did a job in the biotech and was fire and then spend several yrs doing retail/clerical jobs before i ended up in insurance.

don't try to guess what life is going to throw at you, Don't get hook up on your major was and what you originally want to do. Just prepare to take advantage of any opportunity when it shows up.

[james0246]

As a word of advice, especially for those who are exiting college and high school with a degree, for those over and/or underqualified and find it impossible to get a job in a relevant field, I would suggest going to a local community college and taking a class (or 2) is a field you find interesting that you know will have some growth potential (a class generally only costs 250$ (a semester) for those living in state). Some companies, just knowing that you are trying to educate yourself (or expand your pre-existing education) in the companies field of expertise, will often look at your resume a little more closely.

[iLney]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Its always much more expensive to fix a disaster than to have avoided it in the first place. Basic engineering 101.

True only if something is being fixed. And idk what to expect if the fix is being evaluated by creative accounting and statistic

On topic: Get a PhD. in science, it always pays off in the end.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by iLney

True only if something is being fixed. And idk what to expect if the fix is being evaluated by creative accounting and statistic

how about congress christopher cox in charge of the SEC who rather let company off with a plead deal and a slap on the wrist fine then take them to court and try to either get the appropriate punishment or take the company down.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Be happy you're where you are at. In the US, the job sectors for graduates is plummeting. You enter a major and you have very little security that the job sectors for that major are going to exist by the time you exit college with a $10K-$100K college loan to pay off. There's a *few* nearly sure things... pharmacy, for example. But most professional/science/business degrees are real crap shoots in the US now, and with the cost of a degree around $60K-$100K its tough to go with the "cultural enrichment and self improvement" theory.

Making it even worse, high school degrees are utterly worthless. Trade schools and certification schools have some value but they're "this year's fad" in terms of teaching you skills that can evolve (they want you back for the next fad certification).

Ah well, studying is basically free in Germany (some universities however charge fees - but nowhere near the sums you mentioned). Maybe thats the difference then.

If I had to pay-back 60k-100k, I'ld need 4-6 years (considering my current wage). And thats only when I live minimalistic. Such sums are discouraging for sure.

Anyway, regarding the high costs at US universities I have mixed feelings. I cannot help but feel as if this is primarily meant to give preference to good situated students and not to care so much about actual performance.
So, if a degree is more a result based on money-input than performance-input.... I could imagine that this will degenerate the whole value of such a degree (from an employers' POV). I don't want to imply, that this is the primary reason, why it is hard for graduates to find employment. But maybe that adds to the new mantra of employers (and this phenomenon I also experienced here), that they do not neccessarily need high profile graduates to get the job done when an under-graduate or non-graduate can do it for much less.