2010-05-31, 14:06 | Link #7542 | ||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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putting aside the fact that stopping the UN aid means the palestinians starve within a week, and that the israeli's dont actually GET UN aid at all how would having the US take over solve anything they are in iraq right now ... did that solve anything ? so you DO agree with israel's right to exist then ? yes or no please Quote:
but the soldiers we're, and they deemed it necessary
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2010-05-31, 14:09 | Link #7543 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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1. UN stops funding the region - what good would that do? It would just create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, wouldn't it? I don't claim to know too much about what it's like over there, but the feeling I get is that it's something of a welfare state. 2. US takes over the region and stops insurgents on both sides - Hamas hates America just about as much as they hate Israel. If you want to give them a reason to escalate their conflict, putting America ("foreign invaders" "puppets of Israel") into the region is a great way to do it. That aside, can the US really stop insurgents from both sides? We can barely control the Taliban in Afghanistan (which is arguably an international effort, even), and we struggled with Iraq for a good long while. I'd hesitate to say that we really achieved victory there, either. 3. US enforces the borders... we can barely enforce our own border Bad joke. I understand that you mean to ensure that territorial lines are not altered. Having an international arbiter to verify this may do some good. The US is already working with Israel to cut their expansion. The trouble is, the Palestinians are not upset because the borders are encroached upon here and there, they're upset because they perceive all of Israel as rightfully being theirs. It is sadly unrealistic to expect that Israel could get up and move.
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2010-05-31, 14:09 | Link #7544 | |
Director
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Mere recognition isn't enough, though, it needs to take action to end the conflict. Majority of Palestinians would be fine with this. Abbas has said time and time again the US is necessary for the peace plan. This can't happen without the US. It's a sad truth. |
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2010-05-31, 14:12 | Link #7545 | |
Director
Join Date: Feb 2010
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The entire Arab League voted to support Abbas during these peace talks with Israel. |
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2010-05-31, 14:12 | Link #7546 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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I don't think he has a choice. He is probably struggling with his sense of nationalism and his humantarian views (primarily his conscience), but both sides want him to take theirs.
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If they had no weapons to hide, or no violent intent, why would they attack the boarding party? And in one of the scenes, a soldier was shown using a PAINTBALL GUN instead of a live rifle. Another thing is, these commandos are trained in Krav Maga, one of the most scientific, pragmatic and concise self-defence art in the world. Fighting against 5-6 mobsters shouldn't be a problem to him, but he risks injuring or even killing these people if he does. So he doesn't have the right to try and push/shove them away to prevent injuries to both sides? True it may be propaganda on the IDF's part, but freegaza's "peace activism" is clearly a hypocritical organisation, and probably anti-semite, to make the Israelis look bad.
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2010-05-31, 14:13 | Link #7548 | ||
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
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But we'll never know, because they were given no opportunity to do so, since their way of life was decimated by a foreign invasion using superior technology. The comparative morality of the natives vs. the Europeans had nothing to do with who won, and frankly, I don't see much evidence of the Europeans at that time having substantially superior morals to the natives. No, I'm simply pointing out how justinstrife is not thinking things through. Ideas need to be extrapolated to see if they fit under various circumstances. If they begin to show inconsistencies and self-contradictions, then they need to be re-examined. I'm just suggesting that justinstrife needs to reassess his beliefs. We all do that to a certain extent, to scratch an itch, if you will. I found his wholesale condemnation of native American (and Islamic) cultures to be distasteful, perhaps more in the manner in which it was written than in the content of the beliefs expressed. So I felt compelled to respond. Let me repeat: Native American culture was defeated by European immigrants because of the latters' superior technology. As I wrote above, the relative moralities of the two sides had next to nothing to do with this. In the same way, Israel succeeds against its Arab neighbours due to Israel's superior military strength. Again, the relative moralities of the two sides have next to nothing to do with who is winning. Sure, Israelis have far more basic human rights than do the people in neighbouring Arab countries. But does this justify giving one set of rights for Jews and another set of rights for Arab Israelis, and a third set of rights for Palestinians? Does this justify the Israeli blockade of Gaza? Personally, I'm an agnostic. I find most religions to be silly, but some religions are more harmful than others. I even hold the view that Islam is more harmful than the other major world religions. I actually agree with much of what justinstrife seems to believe. Like him, I disagree that native Americans had some great spiritual bond with the land that was intrinsically superior to that of the European immigrants. The only reason why the native Americans did not destroy natural habitat in the way that the later Europeans did, was because they lacked the numbers and the technology. They would have done something similar if they could have. They are just as prone to avarice as the Europeans were, i.e. they were just as human, with human failings. Where I disagree with justinstrife is in his description of either native Americans or Mid-East Islamic cultures as being something subhuman. He used the term "monkeys." That's just wrong. They're human, just like you and me. Humans can act foolishly at times, both individually and in groups. In many ways, Europeans in the past and Jews in ancient Israel acted just as badly, but they eventually changed. The sad thing is that the Jews of present-day Israel seems to be reverting somewhat to the bad, old, tribal ways. |
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2010-05-31, 14:13 | Link #7549 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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the US is needed to aid as a mediator and to help with funds but its not meant to take over the area and recognizing "palestine" is pointless, because there IS no palestine at this point who leads it exactly ? what is its territory ? what happens with the jews living in the west bank ? what happens with the palestinians living in israel ? unless these, and other, issues are solved, you can't HAVE a palestinian state, because it wouldn't be a state
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2010-05-31, 14:16 | Link #7550 | |
Director
Join Date: Feb 2010
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West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem They choose to continue living there, or they peacefully move to the Israeli areas They choose to continue living there, or they peacefully move to the Palestinian areas |
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2010-05-31, 14:16 | Link #7551 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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2010-05-31, 14:17 | Link #7553 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 39
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Besides, it would just be another thing for the islamists to squeal about. So maybe it is a good idea. |
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2010-05-31, 14:18 | Link #7554 | |
Bass-wa Watashi
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BTW, funny fact, all the people that call to boycott Israel are failing hard, a lot of today's technology was invented here.
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2010-05-31, 14:19 | Link #7555 | |||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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i can think of quite a few people who object to that idea
namely Hamas Quote:
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but i can think of quite a few people in israel who would object to that praticularly if the palestinians object to the third paragrath (which they do)
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2010-05-31, 14:22 | Link #7556 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Cmon, my country is a whole lot smaller than that place and had 3 times the population of 1.5 million. It is just that these people have sucky leaders and bad influence.
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2010-05-31, 14:22 | Link #7557 | ||||
Director
Join Date: Feb 2010
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At the end of the day, a lot of people will need to move, but you can do this peacefully and if there's the US to help support these people in this transition, you can solve problems. Not everybody is going to be happy, it's impossible, but peace is possible. |
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2010-05-31, 14:30 | Link #7558 | ||||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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the problem is that the definitions don't match so who's definition do we go by, and why ? Quote:
if the area containing the settlemets becomes part of the new palestinan state, would the people who live there at present be allowed to stay if they so choose ? i'd warn you that you'll raise hell by claiming that jews have to leave palestine but arabs are allowed to stay in israel Quote:
SOMEONE would have to be unhappy, and no one would be willing to it being him
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2010-05-31, 14:30 | Link #7559 |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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I thought that Hamas didn't really win too much in terms of elections, and then decided to take control by force. That resulted in Gaza being divided roughly into two divisions. Hamas represents extremist desires and views.
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2010-05-31, 14:33 | Link #7560 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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Quote:
Gaza is under Hamas control completely (or as complete as it can be) the PA is in control of the OTHER palestinian territory, the west bank
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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