2010-06-01, 00:16 | Link #5182 |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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How can anything be stronger than the strongest most overpowered suit in the entire series? 00 Raiser was clearly invincible, and the fact that Ribbons managed to fight Setsuna to a draw is more of a testament to his skills than his machine being superior.
Also, Ali fighting 00 and Seravee doesn't prove anything, 00 was operating at 80% and Tieria is just a shitty pilot.
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2010-06-01, 01:02 | Link #5183 |
new to gunpla
Join Date: Dec 2008
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aah no it was mentioned before that one of the reason Ribbon defeat is becasuse he hadn't pilot a mobile suit for along time in fact I think it was mentioned that interm of spec wether it was equal or better than 00 Raiser (interm of power I guess)
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2010-06-01, 01:13 | Link #5184 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 37
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Reborns Gundam had superior technology compared to the 00-Raiser, but an inferior power source thanks to its GN-Drive[T]s. When it comes to skills, materials revealed that Setsuna ultimately defeated Ribbons because his own skills were more recent and honed, whereas Ribbons hadn't been in battle in a long while and was rusty.
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2010-06-01, 01:46 | Link #5185 | |
Where's the monoeye?
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hargenteen
Age: 35
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2010-06-01, 04:58 | Link #5186 | |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Jan 2010
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What is with this "Hallelujah/Allelujah sucks/is weakest meister' and 'Tieria was a lousy pilot' stuff? They aren't GMs for nothing. I may be taken this a bit far but if you have to call either of them weak you are probably saying Lockon is average. Lockon. Is. Not. Average. Or in my opinion at least. Feel entirely free to disregard it. I like all of them. Very memorable - I wish Halle/Alle could have gotten more battle time though. Hopefully this movie fixes that. Hallelujah! |
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2010-06-01, 08:30 | Link #5187 | |||
Lock N Load
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GUNDAM CITY
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Its like in boxing, In a championship bout,A fighter knocks the other fighter out in a very close fight, then walks out of the ring only to collapse in the changing room with the belt around his waist. Quote:
I would say when it comes to Raw power and super abilities, lockon probably is considered the weakest of all meisters. But ofcourse gundam piloting is not all about raw power and special abilities. Lockon is able to do what he does jus by using sheer skill alone since he lacks when it comes to super human reflexes such as QBW. Each meisters have their own skills set and talents and setsuna is good at everything. I hope the movie will give the meisters some decent screen time which they can use to show case their skills.Course we all know setsuna is the strongest and I am sure CB felt that way since they decided to let him pilot the 00.
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Last edited by GundamMeisterLockon; 2010-06-01 at 09:01. |
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2010-06-01, 11:37 | Link #5188 |
Star Designer
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Europe
Age: 39
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The technology gap between 00R and Reborns is one thing. Equipment and it's range matters as much as the frame and power itself. You can have all the power in the world but with no means to take advantage of it, it's as useless as a throwing knife in the hands of a newborn.
Draw on the battlefield is when both opponents die or when none of them can finish off the adversary. There are no rules on the battlefield. If you fail to kill someone in a deathmatch, it's a no win situation on both sides. Also, would anyone be so kind as to explain to me if 00R suffers power down after Burst in the fight with Reborns? We do get to see the graph of the charge and I haven't seen any statements about the differences of 00R's T-A functions.
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2010-06-01, 13:52 | Link #5189 | |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 37
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The effect, however, is still noticeable as the 00-Raiser was lagging in the final battle, to the point where it was having difficulty evading the Gadessa and Garazzo while the Reborns was harassing it--something we saw wasn't a problem earlier before it had done Trans-AM Burst. Basically, its another testament to Setsuna's skills as a pilot that he managed to do as well as he did against Ribbons while the 00-Raiser was recharging.
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2010-06-01, 14:21 | Link #5190 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The netherlands
Age: 32
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2010-06-01, 14:24 | Link #5191 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 37
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Setsuna wasn't assigned to the 00 Gundam because he was the strongest. He was assigned to it because the 00 Gundam was supposed to be an anti-Gundam unit with its Twin Drive's potential. And so the 00 Gundam was logically equipped with anti-Gundam weaponry; a.k.a. GN-Sword type weaponry. And since Setsuna had the most experience there due to his piloting the Exia...
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2010-06-01, 14:31 | Link #5192 | |||
Sonic!I AM SONIC!!!!!
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I'm not one of those who likes to boast Setsuna is a great pilot all the time. [whether I'll attack him or defend him varies within the context] but I have to say that there is one disadvantage that he has that I would like to point out: Intel. 00 Raiser is quite a famous suit, its been observed and fought by the Innovators for, well alot of battles and as a result they or more specifically Ribbons have a good general idea of not only how 00 Raiser works but Setsuna style of fighting as well. This gives him quite a good advantage in a one on one fight. Not only that but Setsuna himself have never seen Reborns, nor has he fought him before so he does not know his style of fighting unlike Reborns who have been monitoring him for most of S2. Especially through his Innovades as well as other means given his abilities and powers. This may seem trivial at first, but it affects the dynamics of how the fight goes. Setsuna seeing Reborns power makes the assumption that its more of a Virtue archetype, a fair assumption but fails to realize its a Twin Drive suit which can easily break such assumptions. Setsuna lost in each attack that he started with though I think he did win a counterattack that he started with. I'm not exactly sure about how weakened Setsuna's machine is though because 00 is charging up while the fight happens. It also does not help that Setsuna lost a leg later on by an attack from Gadessa which would have made his charging situation even worst given that the leg possesses a GN Condenser. As for Twin Drive output, we still do not know whether its actually lowered or not. It would have been lowered due to Trans-Am, this is the general case but because Burst was a special situation we are not sure whether the lower output situation is extended even further. I will say this though, while I think Ribbons have a intel advantage I'd always have the opinion that Ribbons won the first fight and lost the second one. Even though in text, his stated to have lost both. I'd thought Ribbons did alright though under the circumstances and so did Setsuna. I think I'll used Trans-Am instead. I've Trans-Amed the topic. Let's hope it doesn't run out of steam too soon. Maybe some news hopefully will provide a nice quick recharge after this is over. Quote:
In general, using Trans-Am does lower the output of the Drive afterwards [in conjunction to draining the Condensers]. In the case of 00R though, I'm not so sure how affected it will be. It handles normal Trans-Am well, using Trans-Am Raiser in S2.22 and then uses Trans-Am later again at the end of the battle while doing a semi consuming fight in the middle [wasnt firing much beams due to the anti field]. Of course, its hard to tell how long the Trans-Am at the end lasted because it was done for a finisher move purely but it does suggest to us that 00 can recharge relatively well in a fight although it wouldn't surprise me if it has to drop the performance a bit somewhat. [This is still far better than the others though who are cant recharge while fighting] My view of the situation is this, 00R uses Trans-Am Burst causes a prolonged lower output level of the Twin Drive. This would have lasted to most of Setsuna's meeting with Tiera, which we do not know was how long. When Setsuna started the fight, his meter was around 60s, so most of the charging would have been done but still has to go through the fighting while charging. I'm just making a guess that its output is recovering mostly but may still be below normal but as I've said its hard to tell for sure. Because we do not know whether a)Setsuna was lowering the performance of 00 to route more power to the Condensers for Trans-Am or b) Setsuna was just letting things flow normally in which case the Drive is producing a particle surplus which is why the Condenser meter is rising. However, one important clue is the other two numbers on the screen which follows the same percentage as the Condensers. Because this is a different screen, its hard to tell what they represent. They may represent Drive output rate of which is is the case, then its definitely true that 00R's TDS output is lower. Or they may represent other Condensers which complicates it a bit. My advice, to each of you just think of it however you want it to be for the moment. Quote:
As RD said though, Setsuna was drafted with 00 because he was Exia's pilot and the Twin Drive System was chosen to be placed on an Exia archetype, not a bad decision considering it has general purpose heritage as well as Exia having one of the best mobility within the 3rd Generation Gundam due to its better human articulation design. Although, thats the irony of it. Setsuna was the symbol of which made Ribbons have the determination to do what he did. Ribbons made Setsuna a sacrifice Meister, given him the seat of CB. And in the end, it was Setsuna who ended his plan and defeated him, destroying Exia's [former] GN Drive in the process.
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2010-06-01, 14:35 | Link #5193 | |
Gundam Mechanic
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NY
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I apologize for taking this off topic, bu here are some descriptions of the new models from the movie.
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2010-06-01, 14:44 | Link #5194 | |
Sonic!I AM SONIC!!!!!
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You forgot one.
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Interesting, so I wonder if the detachable idea thing may be true? Then again, it could just be a model related thing. Even the HG GN Sword II is "detachable". I also wonder if Big Cannon is really the name of the 2nd form or whether its just a description?
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Last edited by SonicSP; 2010-06-01 at 15:08. |
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2010-06-01, 15:33 | Link #5195 |
Star Designer
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Europe
Age: 39
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~@ R.D. and Sonic
Thanks for the explanation. First time I saw the final episode and the fight with Reborns, right after the very first clash when 00R was sent flying backwards I laughed a bit wondering how's that even possible. It simply seemed off. Quite apparent as the fight went on. It was more of a feel rather then a cognitive assumption. Summing all of this up, I do feel that the series never really showed us any 'proper' fights where Setsuna could truly go all out. The problem here is that creators must have had a hard time mixing unbelievable performance of 00R, showing Setsuna's skills as a pilot with not relying on his units specs. Even making him not unbeatable like all other protagonists in old fashioned UC series. The best way out of this is to give him proper opponents with comparable units though that's impossible due to 00R being the very first of it's kind. It's simply plot impossible. That's why to play it safe all of his fight had a certain condition to them, like unfinished TDS, being shoot, distractions due to the effects of T-A and power downs of 00R. Looking forward to the movie since it'll be the very first battle where Setsuna fights in a properly prepared unit against a proper enemy. That's all from me on this topic. About the HG models. So it seems they went with trailer info. Hm, so Quan[T]s GN Sword really has a mode change.
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2010-06-01, 16:06 | Link #5196 | ||
Lock N Load
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GUNDAM CITY
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2010-06-01, 16:29 | Link #5197 | |
I fart GN Particles
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Australia
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Raphael and the Big Cannon? Toes. hurhurhur we're getting more info than I expected from the models :P
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2. Mode change confirmed, I guess. Now we have to wait and see HOW it's done. XD 3. (Model question) Why are the ears moulded in clear parts? |
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2010-06-01, 16:31 | Link #5198 |
Where's the monoeye?
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hargenteen
Age: 35
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Hm...."clone" eh?
I'm not gonna put much thought into the whole "toes" thing. The cannons do function as claws too, so that could just be them being movable. Last edited by GN0010 Nosferatu; 2010-06-01 at 16:41. |
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gundam 00 movie |
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