Nanoha Manga Discussion

[00-Raiser]

They could just use Lily and Isis to force Thoma to work for them.

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Hmm... If Thouma does get brainwashed...

Subaru: *Crying* Why do I have to fight against all of my brainwashed and crazy family members?

Nove: I wasn't brainwashed...

Subaru: I still had to fight against you, Cinque and Wendi...

Nove: ...Point taken.

Wendi: I notice you didn't deny "crazy," Nove.

Nove: Just shut up already!

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Wendi: I notice you didn't deny "crazy," Nove.

Nove: Just shut up already!

Subaru: Of course she's crazy, she's dating you.

Wendi: HEY! ... Wait...

[prescience]

I imagined it going more like this:

Subaru: Of course she's crazy, she's dating you.

Wendi: Damn right :3

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

The chances of Signum and Isis being brainwashed or anything to even join the group see thin, though. Sure, considering his mental state and the fact that he's the one they want, I can understand Thoma; and Lily is a given since I doubt she would leave him alone, unless Cypha actively leaves her beind or dumps her somewhere. But why would they decide to take Signum, Isis, and Agito with them? Signum and Agito are as good as dead, and in their minds Isis is just a normal girl.

As a distraction maybe? they can use her as an Elite mook to lead minor soldiers or simply unleash her to wreack havok and buy some time to finish another goal(they also can use her skill data to empower their mooks if they have an "ODE System" Expy xD!). also i would love to see an excuse to show Signum back in her roots as a cold Blood Knight.

[Demi.]

I just can't see Signum capable of being brainwashed, period

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

As a distraction maybe? they can use her as an Elite mook to lead minor soldiers or simply unleash her to wreack havok and buy some time to finish another goal(they also can use her skill data to empower their mooks if they have an "ODE System" Expy xD!). also i would love to see an excuse to show Signum back in her roots as a cold Blood Knight.

I suppose what I mean is, how would they brainwash Signum? As far as I know, the only way someone can join them is if they're infected with the Eclipse, and unless Signum somehow magically forms a bond with Lily in Thoma's place or something, I can't see her falling victim to being one of their mooks, unless they pull out some skill we've never seen before or mess with her link to Hayate and the Book.

[NorthernFallout]

What is this I don't even...

[Lord Pertinax]

Originally Posted by AtomicoX

What is this I don't even...

There are things that are better not known.

I supose nothing about the traduction yet?

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Some of you guys have quite the infatuation with blood and suffering.

No shit.

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I doubt Thoma will get brainwashed. Doesn't seem like Huckebien's style. They'll probably use the "You're one of us" tactic on him to try and recruit him. He'll probably spend a lot of time in a cage, though.

Yeah, I really don't see any reason for him to work with Hückebein (Veyron especially) unless they hold Isis hostage, of course. The "You are one of us" tactic would have worked in the case he didn't already had a "family" on Mid-Childa. But now the only way to permanently change his allegiance is to have Subaru "betray" him (actually, being too harsh on him for things beyond his control; Nanoha is known for occasional cases of Poor Communication Kills) and the Hückebein members simultaneously being as nice to him as they are to each other.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I suppose what I mean is, how would they brainwash Signum? As far as I know, the only way someone can join them is if they're infected with the Eclipse, and unless Signum somehow magically forms a bond with Lily in Thoma's place or something, I can't see her falling victim to being one of their mooks, unless they pull out some skill we've never seen before or mess with her link to Hayate and the Book.

One word: Mindrape.

[SilentOutlaw]

I don't think any amount of mind rape can slow Signum down for a minute.

[Demi.]

I don't think Signum can be mind raped to begin with. So yeah, what you said.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Sheba

One word: Mindrape.

I'm failing to see how mindrape would have any effect on Signum. She'd probably just shake it off, knowing her.

[Demi.]

Rather than brainwash her, it would probably make her go berserk in a fit of rage; depending what method of brainwashing you use...

[RadiantBeam]

They'd be screwed beyond all belief if they tried to use Hayate, or Fate, or any of the other Wolkies, that's for sure.

[Kikaifan]

Trying to brainwash Signum seems like a good way to get counter-mindfucked by some leftover YnS subroutine.

[Tk3997]

This is a bit old, but it's still on the last page for me and I wanted to comment.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Neither are acceptable for personal teleports, you're still talking lightyears. I find it inconcievable that even an SS-rank has the energy to teleport a single lightyear, let alone the multiples needed to get out of the reaches around Earth.

This is just nonsene FTL and even more so Teleporting of any kind is in itself basically outright magic to start with as it's pretty much impossible by most accepted theories of how the universe works. Since any form of either would automatically violate several rules that seem to underpin the entire universe saying that it can't work because it takes "too much energy" is just untenable.

It would take as much or as little energy as the author decides is convenient to the plot. The requirements in fiction vary from "needs a massive reactor the size of a planet" to "if you know how the engine in your old ford has enough juice". MOST universes tend to affix fairly high energy requirements, but this is just because most universes are looking to make sure you have to stick them on a ship so they can have cool space battles.

There's no real scientific reason that teleporting a lightyear ought to use more energy then teleporting fifty feet; because as noted according to science either is equally impossible.

Finally, coordinates? No good if you don't have the accuracy to get within a kilometer of the target point over a distance of several lightyears.

Well the alternative which is teleporting between universes hardly solves this issue! If anything it just compounds it even more adding having to find the right universe and then STILL having to find the right planet and the right exit point.

Beacons? Do you have any idea how powerful they'd have to be to be detectable over several lightyears? And something that powerful would make it impossible to land within tens of km (at least) from the beacon.

As powerful as the whims of the author dictate. FTL commutations can range form needing massive complexes miles across to being a little cellphone that fits in your pocket. The idea this beacon would have some kind of jamming effect is also entirely at his whims and has no basis in objective science. Again since it's impossible the only limits are what the author of a universe says are the limits.

Beyond that as noted the between universe model has all these problems and adds many more. Not the least is that if they truly are shifting between different universes then where are the infinite number of alternate TSABs, Belkan Empires that never fell, and autocratic states that came about in instead of the TSAB all waging endless war on each other across the cosmos. Where are the endless hordes of alternate mids or earths? (If you go with the multiple universes angle you're basically saying that many worlds is right and opening a HUGE can of worms)

The different universe idea just does not work IMO. On the other hand the "Dimensional Sea = Hyperspace" idea works almost perfectly if we simply postulate that humans either emigrated or were taken off Earth in the distant past via some means (or take the Star Wars route and just ignore where they came from totally). Actually going back to Atlantis if one wants to get really cracky say that it acutally existed, but didn't sink rather it's residents decided to leave for the stars a good few millenia ago. Settling on a new world they decided a new name was is order and settled on Al Hazard. This explains the fairly widespread, but nonetheless seeming finite human populations on what are clearly numerous different planets and also that numerous different relative tech levels. It also explains the lack of constant attacks by extra-universal invaders and explains how the TSAB can hope to acutally police space in a meaningful way.

[itanshi1]

Pretty sure Al Hazard is the name of an event not the name of the ancient civilization. I have a name for it, but I'm not sure the community would accept it.

Spoiler for ourter cadia related:

Presuming the Eclipse virus originated from there, I kind have become enamored by Ecliptia.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by itanshi1

Pretty sure Al Hazard is the name of an event not the name of the ancient civilization.

Isn't it the name of the city, though? Precia spent all of season one trying to reach the lost technology of Al Hazard to revive Alicia, so I was always under the impression that it was a city or an ancient civilization.