What do you hate about anime?

[Archon_Wing]

Ok, my headache cleared a bit, maybe I should say I hate moe debates.

On the topic of hating, and bashing...

Honestly, I don't think Series haters are the problem. The problem is fan haters. You know the type that degenerates into personal attacks. Typically they don't even try to evaluate a series; a review from them turns into an rant on the fanbase. They may refer to the audience as mindless sheep who just buy hype or just live off loyalty. You will see these people always ranting about how they might find the show ok, but how much they hate the people who worship it.

On the other opposite extreme are probably the series zealots who think their pet show is the work of God and any criticism of it automatically makes you a troll.

I don't get it. It's not like someone not liking (or hating) a show is gonna affect your opinion of it. And I'm quite sure the writers and the studios are gonna survive a few attacks from words on the internet-- they really don't need to be defended.

You'll just have to realize that even shows you consider the best are gonna have aspects that annoy the shit out of others. That's just how it works, but if people didn't have these different tastes, then there's no room for discussion. And that'd be kinda boring if it was just praise wouldn't it?

[felix]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Eh, normally I'm pretty sympathetic to fans of shows like K-On! since I am one myself but if that kind of post can set you off, you really do need to cool it a bit.

The following is what I quoted,

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that K-On! gets a lot of hate because its pure, 100%, concentrated moe.

That is the entire show, more or less.

Now, I'm not saying that to be critical, as I myself tend to like moe.

But I'm saying it because, for the moe haters, this show has nothing that can appeal to them. The moe hater really would be better off simply not watching it.

Even Clannad, for example, has its non-moe scenes. Scenes, for example, of Tomoya joking around with Sunohara. For the moe hater, these scenes can provide welcomed breaks from the moe-ness.

But K-On! is just pure moe from start to finish.

As you can see in all his paragraphs he does little else then "moe this" and "moe that." I do not feel I made a unjust or unfair assessment as to what he was doing/saying/implying in my own post. Of course I misunderstand people very often, so if that's the case I apologize. Although you'll have to explain to me what the message I'm missing is suppose to be here (other then the 1001 ways to throw around the word "moe").

[kitten320]

I don't watch K-ON because of Moe... yes series might seem pointless but that's what kinda attracts me to it... series are basicly about normal people who have a dream but are too lazy to reach it at that stage... so series are basicly about myself 0_0

So yeh, the reason why I watch it is because I recognise myself in it all.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Honestly, I don't think Series haters are the problem. The problem is fan haters. You know the type that degenerates into personal attacks. Typically they don't even try to evaluate a series; a review from them turns into an rant on the fanbase. They may refer to the audience as mindless sheep who just buy hype or just live off loyalty. You will see these people always ranting about how they might find the show ok, but how much they hate the people who worship it.

Oh, cool... I'm on your hated list then

Actually fanbases play huge role! I actually get ashamed sometimes to like something because of how crazy some fans act.
But mostly my hate is derected towards crazy character or couple lovers. Most of those people are just cruel and I don't wish to have any connection to them what automaticly pushes me away from things they like.

It is actually same in real world, not only anime connected.
Crazy fans are huge minus to anything.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Oh, cool... I'm on your hated list then

Actually fanbases play huge role! I actually get ashamed sometimes to like something because of how crazy some fans act.
But mostly my hate is derected towards crazy character or couple lovers. Most of those people are just cruel and I don't wish to have any connection to them what automaticly pushes me away from things they like.

It is actually same in real world, not only anime connected.
Crazy fans are huge minus to anything.

But that kind of hate has to do more with them being crazy than fans. That's why I brought up series zealots as well. Crazy fans are on the fringe, and don't represent fans as a whole. A fan hater would use crazy fans to generalize the entire fandom, which really wouldn't be cool.

[kitten320]

That's true.

I know that no everyone in the fandoms are crazy, I did meet normal people but sadly the majority isn't... at least the one at which I stumbled, that is why I try to keep away from them.

The best examples in my case would be Hinata, NaruHina and Zutara fans... as I said I have met normal people against whom I have nothing against but the majority just asks for some huge punching... Hitsugaya fanbase also could be added to that list...

And I used to like Hinata and NaruHina at first =/

[felix]

Originally Posted by kitten320

And I used to like Hinata and NaruHina at first =/

I [still] like that pairing. Maybe that's because I hate most of the other characters though.

I have to agree with Archon_Wing point of view. I used to think how its so stupid that people hate anime fans. You have those people that collect stamps, or are movie buffs, they don't get hate! But after years of being in contact with the culture I now look at it from the other way around. Its not people who hate anime [fans] that's the problem. Its those freaks that are pretty much the trademark of the industry that's the real hurt. When you have people marring virtual characters and grown men having tea parties with "their wifus" in the parks, I feel the hate and urge to punch them too!

Sadly we may never be able to get rid of this stupid stigma those idiots cause.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by felix

The following is what I quoted,

As you can see in all his paragraphs he does little else then "moe this" and "moe that." I do not feel I made a unjust or unfair assessment as to what he was doing/saying/implying in my own post. Of course I misunderstand people very often, so if that's the case I apologize. Although you'll have to explain to me what the message I'm missing is suppose to be here (other then the 1001 ways to throw around the word "moe").

Personally I don't understand what you were getting at with your assessment. What Triple_R was talking about in his post was very self-explanatory. It gets hate, because it is a moe show, where as moe haters (A growing group today) are hard pressed to find interest in such a show that is apparently very popular. He even said he likes moe, so it's not even a biased assertion really.

EDIT: The semantics of moe are not really all that relevant. No one really argues differently about K-ON! being a moe show.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Personally I don't understand what you were getting at with your assessment.

That: any argument that simply focuses on the word moe is just empty and full of hot air. If there even was any tangible reasoning to be deduced from the use of the word, its long since dead from the overuse and misuse of it. The inability of the users of the word to express themselvs with out it (in every sentence; as can be clearly seen in this thread) simply proves its use is just a reflexive reaction and nowhere near coherent thought.

And: any such "love for the haters" the producers of the show might have, is just all your delusional fantasy [or trolling] (with as of yet no logical basis or proof of existence) and has no place in any argument.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by felix

I [still] like that pairing. Maybe that's because I hate most of the other characters though.

I have to agree with Archon_Wing point of view. I used to think how its so stupid that people hate anime fans. You have those people that collect stamps, or are movie buffs, they don't get hate! But after years of being in contact with the culture I now look at it from the other way around. Its not people who hate anime [fans] that's the problem. Its those freaks that are pretty much the trademark of the industry that's the real hurt. When you have people marring virtual characters and grown men having tea parties with "their wifus" in the parks, I feel the hate and urge to punch them too!

Sadly we may never be able to get rid of this stupid stigma those idiots cause.

Those people just freak me out x_x

I can understand when someone admires character looks and might wish for him/her be real... but actually marrying them? simple claims like "He/she is my boy/girlfrieend" is already freaky =/

[Vexx]

Makes me wonder how the "moe for mecha" people are supposed to think about this

"moe" is a feeling one gets about something ... so to a lot of people, using it like a descriptive noun for a particular type of series just seems very weird.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by felix

That: any argument that simply focuses on the word moe is just empty and full of hot air. If there even was any tangible reasoning to be deduced from the use of the word, its long since dead from the overuse and misuse of it. The inability of the users of the word to express themselvs with out it (in every sentence; as can be clearly seen in this thread) simply proves its use is just a reflexive reaction and nowhere near coherent thought.

And: any such "love for the haters" the producers of the show might have, is just all your delusional fantasy [or trolling] (with as of yet no logical basis or proof of existence) and has no place in any argument.

Well if your whole argument is predicated on the basis that there is no true definition for moe then whatever. Lets just say that K-ON! is a show mainly based on the idea of "cute girls doing cute things" and we still get relatively the same idea.

As for your second point, there was never any statement made that the studios should care about the other people. Again, this was simply an attempt to explain why there exists hate. It wasn't justifying it or anything.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by felix

That: any argument that simply focuses on the word moe is just empty and full of hot air. If there even was any tangible reasoning to be deduced from the use of the word, its long since dead from the overuse and misuse of it. The inability of the users of the word to express themselvs with out it (in every sentence; as can be clearly seen in this thread) simply proves its use is just a reflexive reaction and nowhere near coherent thought.

So ok, he used a vague descriptor of something. I don't really think it's something to get so worked up upon. I mean, does it carry a negative connotation or something? On the other hand, if someone can't express an idea or concept without use of a certain word, then maybe there IS a use for that word, however crappy it may be.

I don't like labeling shows either with "moe" either, but certainly that word triggers a certain thought in certain people and it can't be all just rage. Or should we just stick with wikipedia? I dunno.

If it was outright bashing, I'd understand, but this kind of thing has a need for asking for clarity rather than a rant. It's easier to get your point across.

And: any such "love for the haters" the producers of the show might have, is just all your delusional fantasy [or trolling] (with as of yet no logical basis or proof of existence) and has no place in any argument.

Ok, I have no idea what that means. Where did this come from?

[Mafuyu]

Filler. I absolutely abhor filler because it takes away from the original plot line and simply inflates a series with fluff. It's like adding chalk to bread in the medieval times because they couldn't afford the flour. Though while filler is more or less a timing issue, I would much rather have downtime from a series than to be presented with filler. It might also cause mainstreamists to explore other series. I consider filler a slow and painful torture when one is trying to catch up on a series one has recommended you.

I don't mind fan behaviour as it is their choice, and they can live the way they feel. I am not of any authority on how one should enjoy a culture, series, etc. So I choose filler as my #1 hatred about anime.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

So ok, he used a vague descriptor of something. I don't really think it's something to get so worked up upon. I mean, does it carry a negative connotation or something? On the other hand, if someone can't express an idea or concept without use of a certain word, then maybe there IS a use for that word, however crappy it may be.

I don't like labeling shows either with "moe" either, but certainly that word triggers a certain thought in certain people and it can't be all just rage. Or should we just stick with wikipedia? I dunno.

If it was outright bashing, I'd understand, but this kind of thing has a need for asking for clarity rather than a rant. It's easier to get your point across.

I'm not a native english speaker, so my vocabulary is limited to the commonly used words. I try to keep my posts as innocent as possible, but unfortunately it seems there's no real helping it. Since I don't speak the language (well not everyday or anything) its very easy for me to formulate sentences that are less then friendly, with out realizing it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pleaing innocence. I'm well aware of this [problem] for some time now and just bother with getting my posts to make sense to anyone reading them (friendly or not) these days. Though trust me I wish I could meet your expectations if I could.

But still. This is a english-only forum isn't it? And (unless I'm mistaken or they lied) part of the people that I've been arguing with in this thread till now are native english-speakers. So why can't native english speakers express themselves using only english words? Is it so much to ask.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Lets just say that K-ON! is a show mainly based on the idea of "cute girls doing cute things" and we still get relatively the same idea.

So like I said in a previous post, what makes K-on so special. We've seen this 100 times before. The new Setokai show is pretty much the same too.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by felix

But still. This is a english-only forum isn't it? And (unless I'm mistaken or they lied) part of the people that I've been arguing with in this thread till now are native english-speakers. So why can't native english speakers express themselves using only english words? Is it so much to ask.

Should I start calling anime "Japanese cartoons" instead?

Originally Posted by felix

So like I said in a previous post, what makes K-on so special. We've seen this 100 times before. The new Setokai show is pretty much the same too.

Its sheer popularity and the animation studio.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Should I start calling anime "Japanese cartoons" instead?

Last I checked "anime" is part of the english dictionary these days.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Its sheer popularity and the animation studio.

And why is that relevant?

[animeboy12]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Its sheer popularity and the animation studio.

Which sucks, I won't lie I have no mercy for series haters too. It's amazing how many good series good passed on because it's not a madhouse or bones productions, heck even that's not good enough for some series. When there's more people that hate k-on, naruto, or whatever series than there are that like Casshern Sins or Kemono no Souja Erin, I can't help but feel a little disappointed.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by felix

Last I checked "anime" is part of the english dictionary these days.

Well I think you got my point. How am I as a foreigner then supposed to conveniently explain terms such as "hikkomori?"

I understand that misuse of terms may bother you, but usually when trying to describe vague ideas, we use vague terms in general. I can't tell you how many "mary sue" debates I've seen in my life.

If you don't understand the word usage of someone, then just ask them to clarify it, since it is not just in one language that we run into problems with definitions and meanings of certain words.

Originally Posted by felix

And why is that relevant?

Its popularity leads to the bitterness of some fans because they might feel that the shows they like are not being made or being given a lot of attention because of a show like this that displeases them. They want a show that fits their tastes to be popular over what is currently popular.

This sometimes end up being funny, because as animeboy12 pointed out above, the haters sometimes exceed the fans of the shows that the haters supposedly want to see at times.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by kitten320

I don't watch K-ON because of Moe... yes series might seem pointless but that's what kinda attracts me to it... series are basicly about normal people who have a dream but are too lazy to reach it at that stage... so series are basicly about myself 0_0

Despite the stereotypes about the kind of person who watches K-On, the show is actually hugely popular with female anime fans in Japan as well as male ones, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of people who watch the show for this reason as well (although I wouldn't be surprised if many females watch it for the cute factor too. Many of the female otaku I know really dig cute stuff.).

I'd actually be interested in trying to figure out if Kyoto Animation made any changes to K-On! when adapting it into an anime that would make it more appealing to a female audience - it's one of the few shows of this type that has a female director that I'm aware of.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Those people just freak me out x_x

I can understand when someone admires character looks and might wish for him/her be real... but actually marrying them? simple claims like "He/she is my boy/girlfrieend" is already freaky =/

As a general rule, I think the waifu stuff is supposed to be "SRS BZNS" rather than "serious", so I'm not really freaked out by the people who simply proclaim "character x is my waifu". The ones who actually marry body pillows and such seem to have missed the memo about the difference between "SRS BZNS" and "serious" though.

[Toleen]

i don't like anime couples very much