AnimeSuki Forums

ShinAkuma135 · 2010-07-20, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langus

I'm pretty sure it was covered in the early chapters of the manga/anime that when souls are sent to Soul Society they have no memory or very little memory of their human life. It's why they live in families they've created for themselves. Watch the episode with Chad and the bird. The kid does a good job of explaining it all.

Given that, if Ichigo's mom IS in SS she likely has no idea who Ichigo or Isshin are.

hmmm....i agree....but the boy did seem to remember chad though. i think souls might not remember everything but maybe those who are very important/close to them? and if she doesn't remember at all then isshin would've/could've searched for her since he was a captain. man there's so many plot holes....KUUUBBBBOOOOOO!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonmeister

I thought it wasn't that Ichigo was born as a vizard, but that he took so long to find Zangetsu that he'd almost become a hollow when he finally became a shinigami (although that would suggest that Ichigo was closer to an arrancar)

im not entirely sure how the zanpaktou spirit works....there needs to some explainin to do by TK....we now officially know less than before...bravo

Mr.Amazing · 2010-07-20, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langus

I'm pretty sure it was covered in the early chapters of the manga/anime that when souls are sent to Soul Society they have no memory or very little memory of their human life. It's why they live in families they've created for themselves. Watch the episode with Chad and the bird. The kid does a good job of explaining it all.

Given that, if Ichigo's mom IS in SS she likely has no idea who Ichigo or Isshin are.

But the kid is searching for his mother (or some other family member). THey must have an idea of what's what.

Gin · 2010-07-20, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langus

Given that, if Ichigo's mom IS in SS she likely has no idea who Ichigo or Isshin are.

I thought Grand Fisher killed Masaki and ate her soul?

Langus · 2010-07-21, 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinAkuma135

hmmm....i agree....but the boy did seem to remember chad though. i think souls might not remember everything but maybe those who are very important/close to them? and if she doesn't remember at all then isshin would've/could've searched for her since he was a captain. man there's so many plot holes....KUUUBBBBOOOOOO!!!!!

Well, the boy didn't meet Chad until after he was dead and sitting around as a bird, so it makes sense that he would remember Chad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Amazing

But the kid is searching for his mother (or some other family member). THey must have an idea of what's what.

You make a good point. The kid obviously remembered his mom but he was also fresh in SS. I think someone made some comment (maybe the other boy who was his friend?) that they eventually forget the people from their human lives. One of the characters also mentioned (but I don't recall who) that since souls are dispersed throughout soul society and soul society is so large it is sometimes impossible for them to ever find each other. Think about Rukia's sister. She searched for years to find Rukia after she'd abandoned her and then never found her. It wasn't until Rukia decided to join the academy on her own accord that Byakuya met her.

@ Gin - I said if she IS in SS...

It was subtle but it was my strong suggestion that I don't think she's in SS at all. I'm not sure where her soul is but it's nowhere Ichigo is going to find it. Also, if she was a Soul Reaper too (just throwing wild theories out there) when they die aren't their souls re-absorbed into SS or something?

ShinAkuma135 · 2010-07-21, 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langus

Well, the boy didn't meet Chad until after he was dead and sitting around as a bird, so it makes sense that he would remember Chad.

You make a good point. The kid obviously remembered his mom but he was also fresh in SS. I think someone made some comment (maybe the other boy who was his friend?) that they eventually forget the people from their human lives. One of the characters also mentioned (but I don't recall who) that since souls are dispersed throughout soul society and soul society is so large it is sometimes impossible for them to ever find each other. Think about Rukia's sister. She searched for years to find Rukia after she'd abandoned her and then never found her. It wasn't until Rukia decided to join the academy on her own accord that Byakuya met her.

@ Gin - I said if she IS in SS...

It was subtle but it was my strong suggestion that I don't think she's in SS at all. I'm not sure where her soul is but it's nowhere Ichigo is going to find it. Also, if she was a Soul Reaper too (just throwing wild theories out there) when they die aren't their souls re-absorbed into SS or something?

man....you are just shootin down my idears like one after de other....i tried giving you rep for that but apparently im supposed to spread some around before im allowed to give you any more....sooo +1 for idea rape when i get the allowance

Langus · 2010-07-21, 07:25

Wasn't trying to shoot 'em down on purpose. Just havin' a good discussion is all. I blame it on Kubo's writing. There really shouldn't be so much across the board confusion about certain pivotal elements of his story. We're all confused.

Thanks for trying to send some rep points my way though

Sabaku Kyu · 2010-07-21, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langus

It was subtle but it was my strong suggestion that I don't think she's in SS at all. I'm not sure where her soul is but it's nowhere Ichigo is going to find it. Also, if she was a Soul Reaper too (just throwing wild theories out there) when they die aren't their souls re-absorbed into SS or something?

Like Gin mentioned, it's implied that since Masaki was consumed by Grand Fisher her soul was destroyed, but Isshin indicated that she went to the afterlife and that he would meet her again someday. At the time, it seemed like he didn't understand the actual circumstances of her death. That's been proven otherwise, so it's possible that Isshin's words were true and her soul survived somehow. Still, there's always the possibility that he was just trying to comfort Ichigo.

Mr.Amazing · 2010-07-21, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langus

Well, the boy didn't meet Chad until after he was dead and sitting around as a bird, so it makes sense that he would remember Chad.

You make a good point. The kid obviously remembered his mom but he was also fresh in SS. I think someone made some comment (maybe the other boy who was his friend?) that they eventually forget the people from their human lives. One of the characters also mentioned (but I don't recall who) that since souls are dispersed throughout soul society and soul society is so large it is sometimes impossible for them to ever find each other. Think about Rukia's sister. She searched for years to find Rukia after she'd abandoned her and then never found her. It wasn't until Rukia decided to join the academy on her own accord that Byakuya met her.

I think Rukia's sister proves my point. She never forgot about Rukia, and her last wish was that Byakuya take her in. However, I don't know how long she was married to the Captain. And about the forgeting about past loved ones, I just took that to mean giving up on the search to find them.

KurosakiIsshin · 2010-07-21, 13:32

This is my theory on Isshin. Why couldn't he be in the Royal Guard, TK says he has immense sp and all that. One reason to why people don't remember him is cause the King erased the other Shinigamis memories so they won't remember him and his amazing abilities. Also being placed in Karakura Town, it is the only place where you can make the King's Key, which is very important and who wouldn't guard such an important place with a skilled warrior. So what I think is that Isshin was placed in Karakura Town to defend it from traitors, such as Aizen, who would want to kill the King and people don't remember Isshin because it is to conceal his true identity because what if they kidnap his kids and threaten to kill 'em if he attacks 'em.

ShinAkuma135 · 2010-07-21, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langus

Wasn't trying to shoot 'em down on purpose. Just havin' a good discussion is all. I blame it on Kubo's writing. There really shouldn't be so much across the board confusion about certain pivotal elements of his story. We're all confused.

Thanks for trying to send some rep points my way though

lol yea...too much confusion right now....some answers would be good about now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurosakiIsshin

This is my theory on Isshin. Why couldn't he be in the Royal Guard, TK says he has immense sp and all that. One reason to why people don't remember him is cause the King erased the other Shinigamis memories so they won't remember him and his amazing abilities. Also being placed in Karakura Town, it is the only place where you can make the King's Key, which is very important and who wouldn't guard such an important place with a skilled warrior. So what I think is that Isshin was placed in Karakura Town to defend it from traitors, such as Aizen, who would want to kill the King and people don't remember Isshin because it is to conceal his true identity because what if they kidnap his kids and threaten to kill 'em if he attacks 'em.

i don't think the royal guard get placed in the real world...their only job is to protect the king. captains don't really get placements in the real world...regular shinigami do i think.

Langus · 2010-07-22, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Amazing

I think Rukia's sister proves my point. She never forgot about Rukia, and her last wish was that Byakuya take her in. However, I don't know how long she was married to the Captain. And about the forgeting about past loved ones, I just took that to mean giving up on the search to find them.

Well yes and no. We don't know how they met. Did they come to SS together? In which case there never would have been an opportunity for her to be forgotten. They also spent time together in SS. Once you are dead and spend time with someone in SS I find it highly unlikely that anyone would forget them.

The case I'm talking about specifically applies to people arriving in SS alone and trying to search out loved ones from their past life. If they don't arrive together it was suggested in the manga that they either forget about people from their human life or give up searching for them because SS is so vast.

Mr.Amazing · 2010-07-22, 01:51

I don't read the manga, so I'm not sure how that works, but the anime never gave me the feeling of forgetfulness, however I guess its plausible that some would forget, I just don't think there should be a difference between arriving together or separately.

Stormwhite · 2010-07-26, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurosakiIsshin

This is my theory on Isshin. Why couldn't he be in the Royal Guard, TK says he has immense sp and all that. One reason to why people don't remember him is cause the King erased the other Shinigamis memories so they won't remember him and his amazing abilities. Also being placed in Karakura Town, it is the only place where you can make the King's Key, which is very important and who wouldn't guard such an important place with a skilled warrior. So what I think is that Isshin was placed in Karakura Town to defend it from traitors, such as Aizen, who would want to kill the King and people don't remember Isshin because it is to conceal his true identity because what if they kidnap his kids and threaten to kill 'em if he attacks 'em.

Isshin's had his powers sealed for 20 years. Sorry.

And he could be in the Royal Guard, sure, but at the moment there is little to support that. He could have been sentenced to what Urahara/Tessai were sentenced to - to have their powers drained and sent to live in the human world, he could be the sole Shinigami champion of the mythical lost planet of Robo-Chickens, we just don't know. I personally don't WANT him to be in the Royal Guard, because that would mean yet more pointless characters added to this farcical plot, but Kubo will be Kubo.

SakuraHououji-NoMiko · 2010-08-04, 14:51

What ever happened to the theory that Isshin was the Squad 11 Captain before Zaraki? How long has Zaraki been captain? What if he lost the fight and ALMOST died, but didn't actually die and was instead kicked out of SS by Room 46 so that they could make everyone believe he died? He wandered the human world (Japan/KKT) for a bit as a shinigami, fell in love with Masaki somehow and 20 years ago asked Urahara to give him a gigai to turn him human.

Remember in TBTP how the Squad 11 Captain didn't attend the meeting/promotion of Urahara and what was said about him? Plus when Isshin kills the Grandfisher the discussion he has with Urahara seems to indicate they might have known each other in SS but that while Isshin knew OF the Vizard (something SS/Room 46 kept on the hush) Isshin didn't know the true story behind them, so he probably left SS after Urahara did, but was around at the time of the insident. many of the current Captains only came AFTER the events of TBTP and who knows how long they have been Captains. The only constants are Unihana, Yama-jii, Ukitake, and Shunsui. If Isshin left before they became Captains then of course they would not recognize him, but that's probably not likely.

Also someone said that the Captains in the fake KKT should recognize him. But, to my understanding all the Captains except Unohana are passed the F*** out in the streets by the time Isshin does show up, so they probably haven't even SEEN him. Plus he was hiding his reiatsu, so he was probably hiding from them too.

Just another theory of mine. I still wonder who/what Masaki was though. (Masaki for KING!!!)

dragonmeister · 2010-08-04, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by SakuraHououji-NoMiko

What ever happened to the theory that Isshin was the Squad 11 Captain before Zaraki? How long has Zaraki been captain? What if he lost the fight and ALMOST died, but didn't actually die and was instead kicked out of SS by Room 46 so that they could make everyone believe he died?

The Kenpachi during the TBTP arc has been shown in the latest character book (thread about it here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=96194), but Isshin could be the first Kenpachi

SakuraHououji-NoMiko · 2010-08-05, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonmeister

The Kenpachi during the TBTP arc has been shown in the latest character book (thread about it here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=96194), but Isshin could be the first Kenpachi

Eww, lordy he was ugly lol. Thanx for the info and that link. but that 7th division Vice-Captain reminds me of Isshin, mwahahahaha! I'm hopeless, lol, but I know I'm wrong, since Isshin doesn't have a scar on his face either on his Gigai or in Shinigami form. They just look so similar.

rebel01 · 2010-08-05, 00:56

i think isshin isn't really the last name i think he change it so that
soul society will never chase him to the Earth you can say that.

Gin · 2010-08-05, 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaizer01

i think isshin isn't really the last name i think he change it so that
soul society will never chase him to the Earth you can say that.

You are absolutely correct!!! Isshin is not his last name, it is his first name.

the theory that Kurosaki is not his real surname does have some merit though

SakuraHououji-NoMiko · 2010-08-05, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaizer01
i think isshin isn't really the last name i think he change it so that soul society will never chase him to the Earth you can say that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gin

You are absolutely correct!!! Isshin is not his last name, it is his first name.

the theory that Kurosaki is not his real surname does have some merit though

ROFL. hey we all make mistakes and it is a good point as you acknowledge too. lol

I've wondered that myself every now and again, if Kurosaki was maybe actually Masaki's last name instead of Isshin's. Or if it was a name Isshin adopted after getting into his gigai and interacting with the human world. Especially if he left SS in secret or was cast out.

jtjr26 · 2010-08-25, 00:31

Some have speculated he is fairly young having left the SS 20 or so years ago. Possible, but my own pet theory is he is a former Shinigami but left the SS before the the TBTP. The reason I suggest this is as soon as Ichigo became known to authorities in Gotei 13 espically after the events of the Soul Society arc, then an investigation into him and his family would have taken place and if Isshin was known in the SS he would have been recognized. Now if he left before TBTP then virtually all of the authority figures in SS from that time are likely to be dead thus the lack of recognition.

2010-07-21, 07:25	Link #826
Langus Optimus Prime Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Japan/Canada Age: 39	Wasn't trying to shoot 'em down on purpose. Just havin' a good discussion is all. I blame it on Kubo's writing. There really shouldn't be so much across the board confusion about certain pivotal elements of his story. We're all confused. Thanks for trying to send some rep points my way though __________________ (This magnificent sig. is courtesy of the talented Kuroda )

2010-07-21, 13:32	Link #829
KurosakiIsshin Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	Isshin part of the Royal Guard??? This is my theory on Isshin. Why couldn't he be in the Royal Guard, TK says he has immense sp and all that. One reason to why people don't remember him is cause the King erased the other Shinigamis memories so they won't remember him and his amazing abilities. Also being placed in Karakura Town, it is the only place where you can make the King's Key, which is very important and who wouldn't guard such an important place with a skilled warrior. So what I think is that Isshin was placed in Karakura Town to defend it from traitors, such as Aizen, who would want to kill the King and people don't remember Isshin because it is to conceal his true identity because what if they kidnap his kids and threaten to kill 'em if he attacks 'em.

2010-07-22, 01:51	Link #832
Mr.Amazing Enjoy Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas	I don't read the manga, so I'm not sure how that works, but the anime never gave me the feeling of forgetfulness, however I guess its plausible that some would forget, I just don't think there should be a difference between arriving together or separately.

2010-08-04, 14:51	Link #834
SakuraHououji-NoMiko Member Join Date: Jul 2010	What ever happened to the theory that Isshin was the Squad 11 Captain before Zaraki? How long has Zaraki been captain? What if he lost the fight and ALMOST died, but didn't actually die and was instead kicked out of SS by Room 46 so that they could make everyone believe he died? He wandered the human world (Japan/KKT) for a bit as a shinigami, fell in love with Masaki somehow and 20 years ago asked Urahara to give him a gigai to turn him human. Remember in TBTP how the Squad 11 Captain didn't attend the meeting/promotion of Urahara and what was said about him? Plus when Isshin kills the Grandfisher the discussion he has with Urahara seems to indicate they might have known each other in SS but that while Isshin knew OF the Vizard (something SS/Room 46 kept on the hush) Isshin didn't know the true story behind them, so he probably left SS after Urahara did, but was around at the time of the insident. many of the current Captains only came AFTER the events of TBTP and who knows how long they have been Captains. The only constants are Unihana, Yama-jii, Ukitake, and Shunsui. If Isshin left before they became Captains then of course they would not recognize him, but that's probably not likely. Also someone said that the Captains in the fake KKT should recognize him. But, to my understanding all the Captains except Unohana are passed the F*** out in the streets by the time Isshin does show up, so they probably haven't even SEEN him. Plus he was hiding his reiatsu, so he was probably hiding from them too. Just another theory of mine. I still wonder who/what Masaki was though. (Masaki for KING!!!)

2010-08-05, 00:56	Link #837
rebel01 Infractions 100/100 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: C:\WINDOWS\system32 Age: 29	i think isshin isn't really the last name i think he change it so that soul society will never chase him to the Earth you can say that.

2010-08-25, 00:31	Link #840
jtjr26 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004	Some have speculated he is fairly young having left the SS 20 or so years ago. Possible, but my own pet theory is he is a former Shinigami but left the SS before the the TBTP. The reason I suggest this is as soon as Ichigo became known to authorities in Gotei 13 espically after the events of the Soul Society arc, then an investigation into him and his family would have taken place and if Isshin was known in the SS he would have been recognized. Now if he left before TBTP then virtually all of the authority figures in SS from that time are likely to be dead thus the lack of recognition.