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MisterJB · 2010-09-03, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Do you understand that at tthat moment her mind was completely out of control,right?
It's obvious that she was out of character.

No, I don't.
Raftela or whatever is capable of creating illusions.Ok.
She created an illusion of Hilda. OK
And Miria simply believed that Hilda was, in fact, alive? Well, how does that work? It makes no sense unless Rabattella can control the entirety of Miria's brain or maybe just her emotions. One way or another, it goes well beyond the simple power of illusions that Not-Rafaella should have.
Was there an explanation on the chapter that I missed?

DragoZERO · 2010-09-03, 20:01

Quick question, have we met any number tens from previous generations?

Shiek927 · 2010-09-03, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

They'll still read it, don't worry.

Of course they will

So will I, even if Priscilla, Raki, and the slowly short(and continuing that way) list of favorite characters I have left also die....but if their deaths are just as hollow as Miria's, my interest in the story will continue to wither into a casual one, and not the strong one it's always been.

I doubt I ever will point blank drop the story before it's end, but this was no doubt a blow. I wonder if Yagi has read the reactions so far

Newhope · 2010-09-03, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Quick question, have we met any number tens from previous generations?

No

10 char

sonotme_9FedriqSama · 2010-09-03, 20:08

We never saw any number 10 before....she resembles galatea...kinda hot too..

Korinov · 2010-09-03, 20:22

Even the strongest-minded person has weaknesses. We've already discussed that Miria, while usually scolding Clare for being too emotional or hot-headed, was in fact pretty much like her: cold and tough 'skin', very emotional in the inside. Clare bassed her life on revenge against Priscilla, Miria on revenge against the Org.

Raftela just found the right key on Miria's mind and pressed it.

And let's get something clear: I think Yagi could have done this better... maybe introducing some hints to that h4x nº 10's abilities before in the story, as side-comments or even as some kind of warning from Galatea ("be careful, I know to some degree that they've been preparing special counter-measures to fight against renegade soldiers, and you should have figurated it as well"). Some words from Miria before her attack against Stav could have also been nice as well ("i played tough while exposing my great plan but i feel we have little chances of makin' it alive to the end"). Anything that made Miria's change from 'tough girl' to 'iwon'tkill, hildasobsob' less abrupt would have aided a lot.

Anyway, I'm still not really dissappointed because I feel completely right about what has happened to Miria and even the way it's happened. When fighting with swords people tend to get cut and chopped to pieces, you know. Attacking people with huge swords and only managing to make superficial cuts in the chest, cheeks or shoulders is something that only happens in Bleach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I am *this* close to dropping this manga. I thought Gantz was getting ridiculous, but WOW, this is the first truly stupid death any character has ever suffered in Claymore.

Oh c'mon, Gantz got absurdly ridiculous pretty long ago. If I dropped it during the Nurahyon arc it was due to the story becoming awfully boring and going nowhere. I have picked it up recently because it's been made clear that the author just continues to make it for lulzy reasons

Nixl · 2010-09-03, 20:34

Wow, seems quite a few people are dropping off, hehe. Oh well, can't make everyone happy I guess. I think the problem stems from two things. First, most people do in fact want that ultra-heroic, Super Saiyan Goku fighting till the planet explodes(Bleach and Naruto are popular for a reason), but we were denied that shounen hero fight. Instead the hero was unfairly ganged up on and killed while defenseless with no signal bad-ass phrase, but a sad smile. Which leads to the second issue; that scene was probably one of the most disturbing things Yagi has ever drawn. It is up there with Beth's head getting sucked through her neck.

It is strange thinking back on the comedy of Yagi's Angel Densetsu and now this. He really has changed in terms of story-telling. I'll definitely keep up with Claymore, since it is this type of uncertainty that keeps me interested from other shounen. I'll never be able to guess the ending for this story and that keeps me on edge.

I know I am partly to blame for this, but there is still the possibility that Miria is alive....so that she can be tortured and possibly be a cripple for the remainder of the series like galatea.

sonotme_9FedriqSama · 2010-09-03, 20:37

@Spectacular_Insanity .....thats a stupid reason to stop reading a manga....I get it when the story gets crap...but thats not the case here....claymore has more potential and great plot....it doen't matter if a side character dies.....besides...I still think miria is not dead yet....dunno why even after reading the chapter I am saying this....

Newhope · 2010-09-03, 20:46

Claymore's quality and popularity has been dropping since the mid 80's chapters now we're starting to see whatis to be frank some really stupid things in Claymore.

Nixl · 2010-09-03, 20:51

I would argue the opposite Newhope, the story has picked up in both artistic quality and pace since the 80s. Compare Yagi's drawings between chapter 10, 32, 60, 80, and 90+. Better yet, read Angel Densetsu. Yagi has improved by scores. If I had to pick up claymore at the Witches Maw arc I probably would have dropped the story for its slowness and over-extended deaths. The fact that Yagi would dare to end Miria like this is a good thing. Why? From the start claymore was said to be a dark tale and Yagi is sticking to it. He is not basing his story on popularity polls or romanticized ideals of heroism/shounen. Anyone can die and furthermore not everyone dies in a romanticized way.

This was a fantastic chapter, because it stirred emotion, shock, and awe. I think it shows Yagi is improving his ability to draw a scene that means something.

This is all subjective arguments. I feel like this is not the end of it though.

Newhope · 2010-09-03, 20:56

The Art is fine the way the story quality has been progressing however isn't it's been hit and miss since the Ghost spilt up.

khryoleoz · 2010-09-03, 20:59

Yeah, just more stupid development. This sacrifice seems only to show that what needs to be done to topple the Org is to not go at them alone? Puhleez!

#10's power is simply derivative of the same power we've already seen in Galatea. Big deal.

And what I really didn't like was something new to us having been represented as something that the Org had always had. Bull crap. What's the likelihood that a #10 was among those whom Teresa struck down during her first execution? More ass pull.

Yagi, this is getting old.

sonotme_9FedriqSama · 2010-09-03, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newhope

Claymore's quality and popularity has been dropping since the mid 80's chapters now we're starting to see whatis to be frank some really stupid things in Claymore.

I disagree....the quality improved miles compares to first few volsms like Nixl said...as for popularity it only decreased because claymore chapters release monthly.....but you can still see the craze over it whenever a new chapter is released....if claymore was a weekly manga....I bet it'll be way above bleach in ranking....which lack proper storyline....

Korinov · 2010-09-03, 21:05

I think what Newhope means is that, since Isley's death, Yagi has given the feeling that sometimes he doesn't know very well how to take the next step. The 'old Yagi' would have probably dispatched the whole AFs vs. Riful vs. Alicia vs. Priscilla vs. Duph in about three chapters, yet we had to endure several months of Priscilla running around killing people and saying repetitive phrases (Duph's death should have took place in about 10-12 pages). Then the endless chase of Clare & co by Priscilla, then the black thing and the tentacles... at least it looks that Miria's final move an death (2 chapters) was truly planned in advance, even if you think it could have been done better (I do).

That's why I feel a bit uneasy about next chapters. I've had enough of tentacles, hellcats and emotionless badass Priscilla, hope the fight gets resolved ASAP... and also hope Yagi deals with the 're-emergence' of Clare from that black mass in a satisfactory way.

Nixl · 2010-09-03, 21:06

I think the issue is that Yagi is juggling multiple perspective now, rather than just Claire and Claire alone. At the moment the stories pacing can be weird. That is a legitimate complaint. However, in the long term consider what has been happening as a whole. We have known since the post- Pieta chapters upon chapter that there would be a shit storm. I'm just glad that things are happening. I would also make the argument that there have been a very good series of chapters so far (Isley, Alicia/Beth's last stand, Riful/Dauf, Claire getting cut in half, and now Miria).

Yagi is by no means perfect, but I think you are missing how much this story has expanded and the potential for the future chapters just because of these choices in the last 10. There will always be issues of pacing (Witches Maw's slowness vs the last two chapters rapidity). I'm sorry if the manga is ruined for you :<

Why is that number 10 bothers people, but not Jean, Galatea, and Priscilla or even the Rigardo vs Claire hax fight? She simply has not received any development.

I <3 Teresa · 2010-09-03, 21:07

I really dont know what to think of this chapter. Part of me hates it with everything inside of me while the other part feels that it was sort of necessary for the story to progress.

I feel the execution of Miria (if she truly is dead - we can only hope not) was done horribly. I hate this instant arrival of a new (supposedly ancient) Claymore. It reminds me too much of a DBZ episode where one character is winning and then suddenly:

"YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN FIGHTING MY FORTH POWER LEVEL!"

Just to throw my 2 cents on how things SHOULD have gone; I'd have this new Claymore go up against Miria while being able to use her illusion tricks. I feel it would have been a lot more believable. The slow downfall of a great leader in an epic battle.

I don't like this "Ratfella" or whatever her name is at all. Her ability seems completely over powered. I know I thought the same of A&B in the past, but this is a bit redonkulous. Just imagine if the Org was taken on by all of the ghosts. Basically all they have to do is throw some attackers on each ghost while keeping #10 in the far back. One by one she can enter their minds and cause them to die to some poorly trained recruits. Even if she couldn't work her way into one ghost's mind, she could use one against the other. Sadly however, every ghost has a weakness or memory. Arg.

The only hopes I have for Miria is that somehow she was playing the organization all along. Perhaps she mastered her "Phantom" ability so well that she could just create two of herself. Perhaps she's been sitting up on a hill watching the entire time while her phantom is doing all the work. (Highly doubtful.)

Or maybe shes just suddenly going to burst into her awakened form. A more realistic idea which would still progress the story without taking too much of a wild turning point.

Another option could be that all the hacking and chopping could just be her limbs. Maybe the org has ideas for interrogations and finding out she knows.

AND FINALLY - Perhaps Yagi just got done watching Inception and this was all just a dream and Miria wakes up next to Tabitha.

Another month to go... Seems so far away.

khryoleoz · 2010-09-03, 21:10

Another thing, all that Miria amounted to was empty bravado. After incapacitating Tabs, it is she who didn't have the resolve to do what was necessary to complete her own personal vendetta. Following this character was an exercise in futility. Galatea was sorely mistaken about her. Man, Yagi sure made the point loud and clear, Miria deserved to die like that. Sheesh.

sonotme_9FedriqSama · 2010-09-03, 21:13

I still think Miria is not dead yet.....you don't think she is that bad of a claymore not to sense rafetela's yoki....Miria's yoki is way above hers and I still think she'll be able to overcome the sensory contol thing.......the final scene still doesn't proves her death....it will be confirmed in next chapter.....but if suddenly Yagi-san moves the storyline to where clare is then.....I dunno wat to say....
Anyways....lets wait and see....@khryoleoz.....don't go cussing yagi....just because of one death.....I think he did a splendid job by providing a story which is not common....and a story where anything can happen to anyone....which in itself a orginal idea...not like most manga where only bad ppl die...and all good ppl survie and live happily ever after...don't forget claymore comes in a category of shounen/seinen, action and "tragedy"...

Kayin · 2010-09-03, 21:21

Well this is disappointing. I know this was meant to get Miria off her high horse, but damn, she lost all battle sense there. Here's to hoping she manages to awaken in the next chapter and we just got cut off before it happened.

Nixl · 2010-09-03, 21:24

Now you guys have got me thinking of how much I hated the Witches arc in early claymore. Easily the worse. 10 chapters of,

1. talk talk talk
2. Galatea hax
3. talk talk talk
4. Claire somehow magically brings Jean back from awakening.
5. talk talk talk
6. Jean's hax.
7. Last shounen stand/move which wins the game.
8. Ultra-strong villain takes no notice of the shounen hero and walks away.

hate hate hate hate it.

Edit: Do not get me wrong, Jean and Galatea got their development eventually, but I think we need to give no. 10 her chance.
Edit 2: Although you could argue that Jean was nothing more than the power of friendship personified and nothing more.

View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 107 rating
Perfect 10	21	14.89%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	14	9.93%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	16	11.35%
7 out of 10 : Good	20	14.18%
6 out of 10 : Average	8	5.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	3	2.13%
4 out of 10 : Poor	3	2.13%
3 out of 10 : Bad	2	1.42%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	1	0.71%
1 out of 10 : Painful	53	37.59%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

2010-09-03, 20:01	Link #802
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 38	Quick question, have we met any number tens from previous generations? __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2010-09-03, 21:21	Link #819
Kayin s c a r l e t Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South FL Age: 43	Well this is disappointing. I know this was meant to get Miria off her high horse, but damn, she lost all battle sense there. Here's to hoping she manages to awaken in the next chapter and we just got cut off before it happened. __________________

2010-09-03, 20:08	Link #805
sonotme_9FedriqSama Clamotgun Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK	We never saw any number 10 before....she resembles galatea...kinda hot too..

2010-09-03, 20:34	Link #807
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	Wow, seems quite a few people are dropping off, hehe. Oh well, can't make everyone happy I guess. I think the problem stems from two things. First, most people do in fact want that ultra-heroic, Super Saiyan Goku fighting till the planet explodes(Bleach and Naruto are popular for a reason), but we were denied that shounen hero fight. Instead the hero was unfairly ganged up on and killed while defenseless with no signal bad-ass phrase, but a sad smile. Which leads to the second issue; that scene was probably one of the most disturbing things Yagi has ever drawn. It is up there with Beth's head getting sucked through her neck. It is strange thinking back on the comedy of Yagi's Angel Densetsu and now this. He really has changed in terms of story-telling. I'll definitely keep up with Claymore, since it is this type of uncertainty that keeps me interested from other shounen. I'll never be able to guess the ending for this story and that keeps me on edge. I know I am partly to blame for this, but there is still the possibility that Miria is alive....so that she can be tortured and possibly be a cripple for the remainder of the series like galatea.

2010-09-03, 20:37	Link #808
sonotme_9FedriqSama Clamotgun Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK	@Spectacular_Insanity .....thats a stupid reason to stop reading a manga....I get it when the story gets crap...but thats not the case here....claymore has more potential and great plot....it doen't matter if a side character dies.....besides...I still think miria is not dead yet....dunno why even after reading the chapter I am saying this....

2010-09-03, 20:46	Link #809
Newhope Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	Claymore's quality and popularity has been dropping since the mid 80's chapters now we're starting to see whatis to be frank some really stupid things in Claymore.

2010-09-03, 20:51	Link #810
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	I would argue the opposite Newhope, the story has picked up in both artistic quality and pace since the 80s. Compare Yagi's drawings between chapter 10, 32, 60, 80, and 90+. Better yet, read Angel Densetsu. Yagi has improved by scores. If I had to pick up claymore at the Witches Maw arc I probably would have dropped the story for its slowness and over-extended deaths. The fact that Yagi would dare to end Miria like this is a good thing. Why? From the start claymore was said to be a dark tale and Yagi is sticking to it. He is not basing his story on popularity polls or romanticized ideals of heroism/shounen. Anyone can die and furthermore not everyone dies in a romanticized way. This was a fantastic chapter, because it stirred emotion, shock, and awe. I think it shows Yagi is improving his ability to draw a scene that means something. This is all subjective arguments. I feel like this is not the end of it though.

2010-09-03, 20:56	Link #811
Newhope Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	The Art is fine the way the story quality has been progressing however isn't it's been hit and miss since the Ghost spilt up.

2010-09-03, 20:59	Link #812
khryoleoz Power of 9 SoShi-ist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA	Yeah, just more stupid development. This sacrifice seems only to show that what needs to be done to topple the Org is to not go at them alone? Puhleez! #10's power is simply derivative of the same power we've already seen in Galatea. Big deal. And what I really didn't like was something new to us having been represented as something that the Org had always had. Bull crap. What's the likelihood that a #10 was among those whom Teresa struck down during her first execution? More ass pull. Yagi, this is getting old.

2010-09-03, 21:05	Link #814
Korinov The Burned Man walks! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Asspain Age: 34	I think what Newhope means is that, since Isley's death, Yagi has given the feeling that sometimes he doesn't know very well how to take the next step. The 'old Yagi' would have probably dispatched the whole AFs vs. Riful vs. Alicia vs. Priscilla vs. Duph in about three chapters, yet we had to endure several months of Priscilla running around killing people and saying repetitive phrases (Duph's death should have took place in about 10-12 pages). Then the endless chase of Clare & co by Priscilla, then the black thing and the tentacles... at least it looks that Miria's final move an death (2 chapters) was truly planned in advance, even if you think it could have been done better (I do). That's why I feel a bit uneasy about next chapters. I've had enough of tentacles, hellcats and emotionless badass Priscilla, hope the fight gets resolved ASAP... and also hope Yagi deals with the 're-emergence' of Clare from that black mass in a satisfactory way.

2010-09-03, 21:06	Link #815
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	I think the issue is that Yagi is juggling multiple perspective now, rather than just Claire and Claire alone. At the moment the stories pacing can be weird. That is a legitimate complaint. However, in the long term consider what has been happening as a whole. We have known since the post- Pieta chapters upon chapter that there would be a shit storm. I'm just glad that things are happening. I would also make the argument that there have been a very good series of chapters so far (Isley, Alicia/Beth's last stand, Riful/Dauf, Claire getting cut in half, and now Miria). Yagi is by no means perfect, but I think you are missing how much this story has expanded and the potential for the future chapters just because of these choices in the last 10. There will always be issues of pacing (Witches Maw's slowness vs the last two chapters rapidity). I'm sorry if the manga is ruined for you :< Why is that number 10 bothers people, but not Jean, Galatea, and Priscilla or even the Rigardo vs Claire hax fight? She simply has not received any development.

2010-09-03, 21:07	Link #816
I <3 Teresa Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	I really dont know what to think of this chapter. Part of me hates it with everything inside of me while the other part feels that it was sort of necessary for the story to progress. I feel the execution of Miria (if she truly is dead - we can only hope not) was done horribly. I hate this instant arrival of a new (supposedly ancient) Claymore. It reminds me too much of a DBZ episode where one character is winning and then suddenly: "YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN FIGHTING MY FORTH POWER LEVEL!" Just to throw my 2 cents on how things SHOULD have gone; I'd have this new Claymore go up against Miria while being able to use her illusion tricks. I feel it would have been a lot more believable. The slow downfall of a great leader in an epic battle. I don't like this "Ratfella" or whatever her name is at all. Her ability seems completely over powered. I know I thought the same of A&B in the past, but this is a bit redonkulous. Just imagine if the Org was taken on by all of the ghosts. Basically all they have to do is throw some attackers on each ghost while keeping #10 in the far back. One by one she can enter their minds and cause them to die to some poorly trained recruits. Even if she couldn't work her way into one ghost's mind, she could use one against the other. Sadly however, every ghost has a weakness or memory. Arg. The only hopes I have for Miria is that somehow she was playing the organization all along. Perhaps she mastered her "Phantom" ability so well that she could just create two of herself. Perhaps she's been sitting up on a hill watching the entire time while her phantom is doing all the work. (Highly doubtful.) Or maybe shes just suddenly going to burst into her awakened form. A more realistic idea which would still progress the story without taking too much of a wild turning point. Another option could be that all the hacking and chopping could just be her limbs. Maybe the org has ideas for interrogations and finding out she knows. AND FINALLY - Perhaps Yagi just got done watching Inception and this was all just a dream and Miria wakes up next to Tabitha. Another month to go... Seems so far away.

2010-09-03, 21:10	Link #817
khryoleoz Power of 9 SoShi-ist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA	Another thing, all that Miria amounted to was empty bravado. After incapacitating Tabs, it is she who didn't have the resolve to do what was necessary to complete her own personal vendetta. Following this character was an exercise in futility. Galatea was sorely mistaken about her. Man, Yagi sure made the point loud and clear, Miria deserved to die like that. Sheesh.

2010-09-03, 21:13	Link #818
sonotme_9FedriqSama Clamotgun Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK	I still think Miria is not dead yet.....you don't think she is that bad of a claymore not to sense rafetela's yoki....Miria's yoki is way above hers and I still think she'll be able to overcome the sensory contol thing.......the final scene still doesn't proves her death....it will be confirmed in next chapter.....but if suddenly Yagi-san moves the storyline to where clare is then.....I dunno wat to say.... Anyways....lets wait and see....@khryoleoz.....don't go cussing yagi....just because of one death.....I think he did a splendid job by providing a story which is not common....and a story where anything can happen to anyone....which in itself a orginal idea...not like most manga where only bad ppl die...and all good ppl survie and live happily ever after...don't forget claymore comes in a category of shounen/seinen, action and "tragedy"...

2010-09-03, 21:24	Link #820
Nixl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	Now you guys have got me thinking of how much I hated the Witches arc in early claymore. Easily the worse. 10 chapters of, 1. talk talk talk 2. Galatea hax 3. talk talk talk 4. Claire somehow magically brings Jean back from awakening. 5. talk talk talk 6. Jean's hax. 7. Last shounen stand/move which wins the game. 8. Ultra-strong villain takes no notice of the shounen hero and walks away. hate hate hate hate it. Edit: Do not get me wrong, Jean and Galatea got their development eventually, but I think we need to give no. 10 her chance. Edit 2: Although you could argue that Jean was nothing more than the power of friendship personified and nothing more.