2010-09-30, 11:51 | Link #9242 | |||
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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I disagree with you, but it isn't personal. So I hope you don't take it as such. You put your opinion out there and I'm doing the same, no hard feelings. |
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2010-09-30, 14:16 | Link #9243 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Surprised no one posted about this one.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2455876.story Quote:
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2010-09-30, 17:09 | Link #9244 | |||||||||
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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SaintessHeart gave you numbers. Didn't change your mind. I doubt anything short of a civilization ending asteroid strike would. Of course by then it's too late.
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Also, since you question cosmology for the sake of cosmology, maybe this will change your mind more than anything I could say. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/30...planet/?hpt=C2 The 100% change of life strikes me as hyperbola, but it's an Earth like planet in another star system. (Note that by the definition of earth like being used Venus and Mars would also be Earth like) A space telescope like this NASA project, currently suffering from a lack of funding, could detect far more extrasolar planets. Is this not valuable research that should be funded?
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2010-09-30, 22:12 | Link #9245 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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The discovery of a planet within a habitable zone of another star system is encouraging, yet the distance involved with our currect technology level makes confirmation of the data difficult (20 light years away).
As for the overpopulation problem, there is a secondary concern that has cropped up in the last decade. The overturning of a civilization with a new one. The European and other First World nations are currently declining in numbers due to stable or less birth rates. Second and Third World populations are increasing at a rapid pace. Some of these regions are gaining benefits of First World medical technology to increase the life span of their peoples, but the rate of procreation is not reducing all that much...sometimes intensionally. The old motto was to "go forth and multiply"...well there is something to that. If you can't beat your enemy in a war, outnumber them and infiltrate their society to the point would you become the majority and take it over. The Christians did this to Rome and eventually Europe and the Americans quite effectively over the last 2000 years. Without the Black Death, one wonders how large the population would be right now? Some suggest that other cultures are effectly doing this "go forth and multiply" tactic against the First World cultures and that in the near future (due to the population increase rates) can become the majority in Europe and America without having to fire a shot. Majority means that the new majority can dominate politics, the work force, and give time, recreate the culture in their own image. It has been done before (the mentioned Christian to Rome). What I see in the Space Program and the potental for Exploration and Colonization, is a way out of stagnation. The First World is stagnent. It has very little in the terms of long term goals. Aside from the economic problems, a look into the cities suggest that nation is demoralized. There is nothing to look forward toward. I say this from an American point of view because there is the notion that American fancy themselves as pioneers (or squatters if you ask the natives). Our spirit wants someplace to expand, and unfortunately Antartica hasn't settled that dream (and the Ocean Floor has yet to draw as much of the imagination as the stars do). There is something that still has value...land. If one could find a way to open a way to claim and get to land on any other world or orbital object, you would have people laying down money to do so. Then they would attempt to either find a way to make a profit of their new land or just find a way to live off that land to get away from whereever they are now. It is not so much about what is more efficient in terms of resources we have now...it is more about how the cultures will survive. What will the humans do in the future? Will be sit on this planet until it is effectly killing us from it not being able to sustain our existance? Or will be expand outward (to possibly get killed the same way because wherever we go can't sustain us)? The question is not so much will we go into space...the question is will be make it in time? If we wait too long we won't have the resources to pull it off. If we go too early we will fail and cloud human judgement that is isn't possible and thus doom the idea for generations. What will we do?
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2010-10-01, 01:57 | Link #9246 | ||||||||||||||||||
Shougi G้n้ration
Graphic Designer
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Also, some (awesome) links Vertical Farming Hydroponics Sustainable city Quote:
US carbon footprint/individual: 19.62 tonnes/year. France carbon footprint/individual: 6.58 tonnes/year. Sweden carbon footprint/individual: 5.70 tonnes/year. Breathing Earth Saying sea levels rise is going to make farming hard is like saying aliens are going to make space colonization hard. It hasn't happened yet and we don't know when it's going to happen. It's kind of hard for me to see its validity. Quote:
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From this, you can see that while the proportion the NASA budget takes in the US federal budget has decreased, its actual budget amount in billions of dollars has grown by 3 billion between 2000 and 2010. Quote:
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Trust me. Future generations will thank you for supporting this idea. Quote:
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On the other hand, not to burst your bubble, but it's 20 light years away from our planet. Our current fastest spacecraft (a probe sent to analyze the sun) has attained 250000 km/h (or 69444.4 m/s). Let's assume we can attain that same navigating speed without destroying a big-ass colony ship on cast-off asteroids. Speed of light is 299792458 m/s. Take your calculator and you will find that it is approx. 4317 times faster than your top speed. Take your 20 light years and multiply by that amount. The voyage would last 86340 earth years. Quote:
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Which is why I am more interested in this.
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Last edited by Frenchie; 2010-10-01 at 02:18. |
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2010-10-01, 03:47 | Link #9247 | ||
Agent 67
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Alors c'est la guerre
F-35, Aircraft Carriers, laser guided munitions, lasers. Quote:
If America so dares to challenge the economy of the Chinese people for some populist election measure, so be it. They should be dragged to the 7th level of Hell. You brought this upon yourself Obama. Also Quote:
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Last edited by SSIlanya; 2010-10-01 at 04:52. |
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2010-10-01, 05:54 | Link #9248 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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North Korea publishes first photo of heir apparent
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2010-10-01, 06:43 | Link #9249 |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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About the overpopulation thing, the problem is not the overpopulation in itself but how this population live. This is symbolized by the actual economic system which is a system based on the devlopment. This is an irrealistic system which said that we can always growth even if our world is not infinite. The economist said that with the help of technology we will awlays growth and solve all the problem. But how can they say that when they don't even know which technology will help us in the future ? They don't know it and they just bet that it will works because they don't want to face the truth, to face that the actual econoimic system is a bad system which only create dipsarity all around the world and make us poorer than ever.
The only way to save this world is to abandon this stupid system and replace it by a system which is based on the decrease. I will ciontinur later because I'll be late for class |
2010-10-01, 09:12 | Link #9250 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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The reason you would send colonists out to space would be because there would be specific resources there that you'd want to acquire so they could be sent back to earth. |
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2010-10-01, 10:32 | Link #9251 | |||
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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Secondly, and read this part carefully because I've tried explaining this to you a few times now and I don't know if I'm being unclear or you're just ignoring it: 9 billion by 2050 matters because of farming. Large scale farming requires a ton of different resources, and even with our current methods we aren't properly feeding our global population. So it is going to be an issue when the population grows even higher. The first world may be able to weather that storm, but others won't be so lucky. Quote:
Anyway we're probably going to keep going on circles on this so this post will be my last on the subject. Last edited by ChainLegacy; 2010-10-01 at 14:25. |
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2010-10-01, 10:49 | Link #9252 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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It does bring up the question: Will the world's population continue to increase along the curve it has at present, or will something change and the population will actually decrease on its own once the theoretical limits of the planet are met?
THe other question is more cultural. The First World population is stable or in decline. The Third World population is booming (at what some would call an alarming rate). With immigration to First World countries (natural or due to the wars) there is what some consider a threat of being overrun culturally. The Human race might survive...but will Western Civilization survive? People seem to only focus on the First World and its carbon footprint and all that jazz. The First World is not the source of the "Overpopulation" problem...if it is a problem. The natural balance to the problem tends to be disease, natural disasters, and wars more so that people stopping procreation. The First World has mostly contained its population growth due to education and the simple effects of technology in that a family no longer needs eight children to survive (not only to eat or work, but also for at least one or two to survive to continue the species). The question is...can it contain the Third World's as well?
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2010-10-01, 12:36 | Link #9253 |
I'll end it before April.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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So as I said, the real problem is the economic system which is based on development. The GDP is only based around money and profit and does no take into consideration ecology factor or hapiness factor. It's the symbol of this economic system and how bad it is.
People need to understand something important : Developed country will not be able to growth anymore. The only realitic solution for them is to decrease. Decrease is not about having less, it's about to stop wanting more and more and more when it's not necessary at all. With decrease, what is at the center is not money and profits but ecology and happiness. It's human and nature who is at the center not money. However, many prople don't know what decrease is and think that because of decrease people will be poorer. It's not true . Atcually, it's our actual system which make people poorer and poorer. With our actual system, only a minority have a good life when the majority have a bad life. Economic crisis is the best example of this. This kind of crisis play an integral part in the actual economic system. In fact, it regulates this sytem and without it, the system can't work. I highly suggest to everyone here to buy some serious book about the decrease and read a lot about what kind of answer it can offers. It's really interresting and you will see that actually, it's propably thge most realitic system which exist. I will maybe try to open a thread about decrease this week-end |
2010-10-01, 13:09 | Link #9254 | |||
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Also, China's "stranglehold" on rare earths is overstated. Your own article mentions the new rare earth mines coming on line in Australia and US production restarting. Quote:
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2010-10-01, 13:36 | Link #9255 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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We can let your tires get in our market, but let more of our chicken feet get into your market! oh and btw China doesnt have a monopoly on rare earth, although they pretty much are the only country actively mining it. The US has a fair amount of rare earth metals, but because of regulatory and environmental reasons, the mines have been closed. If you dont believe me, google it and youll see. |
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2010-10-01, 15:28 | Link #9256 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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Wow looks like the Muslim boogey man is dead. Rare earth metals aren't really rare. As many have said their just extremely hard to mine and the damage to the land and pollution wise they are not really worth it if your an industrial nation to mine yourself especially when someelse can undercut your price. Worst case scenario is that America would have to reopen the mines in America which would be an estimated five years but that could easily be reduced due to sheer overproduction.
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2010-10-01, 23:11 | Link #9257 | |||
~Official Slacker~
Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 30
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2010-10-02, 00:15 | Link #9258 | ||||||
Shougi G้n้ration
Graphic Designer
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Before even considering space as exploitable, we need the renewable technologies, the speed necessary, the ability to build safely off-world. That's not either the end of the challenge. The cost involved in building a mine, a launch area, building the renewables and the hydroponics on site (Because you can't farm, unless you also planned to ship food there) are astronomical. (Pun not intended) Funding better ways of finding those resources on Earth would be, by far, cheaper. That is till the day we truly cannot find anymore of those finite resources. Even then, recycling will be a cheaper way of acquiring construction and industrial minerals than exploiting off world. There probably won't be enough recycled material to go around, but between recycled materials and the added cost of shipping from an off-world mine, recycled materials are going to be used first simply because they are cheaper. It makes economic sense. Quote:
I feel like hoping for affordable off-world exploitation is a bigger leap of faith than hoping for renewable, sustainable economies. Quote:
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The world is a big place with lots of space for farming. Quote:
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2010-10-02, 00:47 | Link #9259 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 35
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Though if someone happens to post a current article revolving around the potential food crisis in the future we can continue that subject. |
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2010-10-02, 05:10 | Link #9260 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Single trade helped spark May's flash crash
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1. The market is run on fear and greed. How are you going to curb fear and greed? Limit share buying per trader? 2. The stock market is free. Any volatility is a result of high volume transactions - to remove the right to buy and sell freely would be to give the companies a chance to withold financial resources in the system even if their business plans are bound to fail (like the dot-com burst - zero business planning for most e-biz); that would be bloody ridiculous. 3. Nobody remembered Mizuho Securities and BNP man? There are always winners and losers in the trading world. It is a natural system of things. I think it is important to get things into perspective - there are two kinds of shares; preferred shares and common shares. Preferred shares are usually held by major investors affiliated to the company while common shares are usually stuff like IPOs; to blanket everything under one parasol is unfair to the traders of common shares. It is already fair and functioning, what companies need to do is to keep a close watch on their preference shares and insider traders rather than blaming the market.
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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