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Old 2010-10-18, 14:46   Link #9441
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
I would think that more open immigration would be quicker and easier solution.
That is difficult to say. Studies in Europe have shown that immigrant fertility rates converge with those of the general population. As a result a country with a low fertility rate would need a continuous inflow of immigrants to offset the ageing problem. High integration costs and popular opposition in culturally homogeneous countries could limit migration to such an extent that such policy would not be viable.

Increasing the countries fertility rate to approximately the replacement rate could present a slower but more permanent and socially stable solution in the long term. However as you said it is easier said than done. It would require significant income redistribution and intergenerational transfers to have any serious effect.
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Old 2010-10-18, 15:09   Link #9442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
That is difficult to say. Studies in Europe have shown that immigrant fertility rates converge with those of the general population. As a result a country with a low fertility rate would need a continuous inflow of immigrants to offset the ageing problem. High integration costs and popular opposition in culturally homogeneous countries could limit migration to such an extent that such policy would not be viable.

Increasing the countries fertility rate to approximately the replacement rate could present a slower but more permanent and socially stable solution in the long term. However as you said it is easier said than done. It would require significant income redistribution and intergenerational transfers to have any serious effect.
And that's why, repelling replacement immigration and trying to figure effective enough fertility promoting policies, Japan is counting on Robots to fill the gap in the meanwhile.
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Last edited by JMvS; 2010-10-18 at 15:28.
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Old 2010-10-18, 15:24   Link #9443
flying ^
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
I would think that more open immigration would be quicker and easier solution.
They're looking at the European model and I think they don't like it.
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Old 2010-10-18, 18:00   Link #9444
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The european model (in several countries) failed on the "integration" part. One reason the US and Canada have done a bit better is that *most* immigrants understand they're leaving behind things that made their origination suck. Immigration is an opportunity to keep the good stuff and toss the bad stuff. Naturally, it is a rocky process.
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Old 2010-10-18, 19:32   Link #9445
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The reason the european model failed: we've let in 1.) way too many and 2.) way to uneducated or of incompatible culture.
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Old 2010-10-18, 20:14   Link #9446
flying ^
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How about this?
Instead of harboring a protectionist perspective, immigration issues could be 'solved' by encouraging massive direct foreign investment in Mexico and Turkey for example?. There here for the jobs, enable their economies to grow, not only to you reduce the interest in taking the risk of coming to the US or Germany etc, you have a much stronger trading partner.
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Old 2010-10-18, 20:17   Link #9447
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Falling birth rates goes hand in hand with better social welfare. Children can be considered an ultimate form of protection against uncertainty for a parent. If you and or your spouse can have an income that assures security for a number of years or even for life, it takes away the need to have children to insure against your lifestyle or unforeseen events. If you can expect your children to be productive and not die before you do, having fewer children you invest more heavily in is more beneficial than raising more. In countries where the government can provide things such as good health care and education and pensions you shouldn't expect fertility to be high even in a poor nation.

Do those European countries seeking immigrants bother to motivate their young folk to aspire to fill higher education jobs in the homeland? Or is there some erosion of national identity or patriotism to work hard for one's own country?

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
How about this?
Instead of harboring a protectionist perspective, immigration issues could be 'solved' by encouraging massive direct foreign investment in Mexico and Turkey for example?. There here for the jobs, enable their economies to grow, not only to you reduce the interest in taking the risk of coming to the US or Germany etc, you have a much stronger trading partner.
Considering the war against the drug cartels in Mexico going on right now, I don't think it's that attractive for investment. Mexico is also relatively better off than several of its neighbors and already attracts migrants looking for work.

Last edited by Decagon; 2010-10-18 at 20:28.
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Old 2010-10-19, 13:37   Link #9448
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm getting the sneaking suspicion this guy is being steamrolled for being a re-enactor... just like I re-enact those scary Vikings at SCA/Renfest meets or other people re-enact Confederates or other people replay wars, cultures, military from all times and places.

I dressed as a biker nazi once in my 20s for Halloween.... is that a problem?
Your comparison is not exactly relevant if you are not fascinated by total war (and total disregard of international rules of engagement). I mean its not that person alone, but there are other figures with similar rhetoric:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...18-503544.html

My initial post could also have included this link... but wasn't available at that time.
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Old 2010-10-19, 16:55   Link #9449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Your comparison is not exactly relevant if you are not fascinated by total war (and total disregard of international rules of engagement). I mean its not that person alone, but there are other figures with similar rhetoric:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...18-503544.html

My initial post could also have included this link... but wasn't available at that time.
We should not take examples from East Germany of how they deal with immigration... Even if it might keep our borders a little more secure, it will only lead to something even worse in the nearby future.
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Old 2010-10-19, 20:07   Link #9450
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Xbox 360: Microsoft’s Kinect review embargo is a ‘RED FLAG!’

First RROD, then a red flag, Sega should have just coloured Vert Greenheart red.
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Old 2010-10-19, 20:13   Link #9451
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Your comparison is not exactly relevant if you are not fascinated by total war (and total disregard of international rules of engagement). I mean its not that person alone, but there are other figures with similar rhetoric:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...18-503544.html

My initial post could also have included this link... but wasn't available at that time.
Thanks, I hadn't taken the time to pursue that story... there are so many races in the US that are full of moronic stupidity, latent fascism, and rogue theocrats - it gets tough to follow them all.
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Old 2010-10-19, 20:40   Link #9452
ganbaru
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China is said to expand Rare Earths embargo to West
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/bu...20rare.html?hp
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Old 2010-10-19, 20:44   Link #9453
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
China is said to expand Rare Earths embargo to West
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/bu...20rare.html?hp
It's interesting how the USA is willing to pay trillions of dollars for a military to defend our country in a war...but isn't willing to pay billions to vital industry for the USA to wage a war.
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Old 2010-10-19, 21:41   Link #9454
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Weird that.

I wonder if we can find rare earths via the space program in a viable return method. Or will it be like the projected Mars Colony....one way only.
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Old 2010-10-19, 22:06   Link #9455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
It's interesting how the USA is willing to pay trillions of dollars for a military to defend our country in a war...but isn't willing to pay billions to vital industry for the USA to wage a war.
Looks like the Trade War went up to another level.
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Old 2010-10-19, 22:59   Link #9456
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Old 2010-10-20, 00:12   Link #9457
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Weird that.

I wonder if we can find rare earths via the space program in a viable return method. Or will it be like the projected Mars Colony....one way only.
The US has large deposits of rare earths itself. It's just not actively mining them at the moment. There's a company that intends to restart operations in the US though.
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Old 2010-10-20, 01:10   Link #9458
Tom Bombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
It's interesting how the USA is willing to pay trillions of dollars for a military to defend our country in a war...but isn't willing to pay billions to vital industry for the USA to wage a war.
Because mining rare earth means pumping acid underground to dissolve the desire minerals? You can imagine what the process will do to the environment. That's why most of the world leave such dirty job to China.
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Old 2010-10-20, 02:25   Link #9459
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Because mining rare earth means pumping acid underground to dissolve the desire minerals? You can imagine what the process will do to the environment. That's why most of the world leave such dirty job to China.
It is therefore understandable that they try to reduce rare earth exports (albeit not without an ulterior motive). I don't know what the free market gurus were thinking, that in capitalism a monopol industry never misuses its power to meddle with prices/other motives?
The financial sector was/is much more diverse and still misuses its position/power (its system relevant and hence almost everything will be forgiven), why should it work any different in the mining business?
You'ld assume that the true capitalist would think more like this: If rare earth elements cannot be suficiently imported from China we have to get the stuff from somewhere else. The price will regulate everything in the market.
Okay, I know we can bet on it that China will raise its rare earth exports at unbeatable prices when there is a true competition (just to crush that competition). But you cannot blame China for it, but the inherent profit gain oriented shortsightedness of unregulated capitalism (which has a lot of supporters... as long as it suits them).
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Old 2010-10-20, 03:01   Link #9460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
It is therefore understandable that they try to reduce rare earth exports (albeit not without an ulterior motive). I don't know what the free market gurus were thinking, that in capitalism a monopol industry never misuses its power to meddle with prices/other motives?
The financial sector was/is much more diverse and still misuses its position/power (its system relevant and hence almost everything will be forgiven), why should it work any different in the mining business?
You'ld assume that the true capitalist would think more like this: If rare earth elements cannot be suficiently imported from China we have to get the stuff from somewhere else. The price will regulate everything in the market.
Okay, I know we can bet on it that China will raise its rare earth exports at unbeatable prices when there is a true competition (just to crush that competition). But you cannot blame China for it, but the inherent profit gain oriented shortsightedness of unregulated capitalism (which has a lot of supporters... as long as it suits them).
China has never been known for having a completely capitalist mindset. Even now, more than just a few Chinese people are in support of communist trade practices (note: this is different from socialist ideals) and it'll be a long while before they decide to forego communism entirely. One of my old workmates from China was quite outspoken about that. Their economy is still trying to adapt to the new system because people there are reluctant to move away from the old ways eastablished by Mao. If they can find a reason to monopolize a certain part of the industry, they will, and this was one of them.
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